1 Corinthians 11:5-15(Head Coverings)

Stand_Up_4_God · Jan 6, 2009

1 Corinthians 11:4-15
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

So I was wondering what everyones take on this is, do you believe women should wear a covering on their head out in public or not? If yes why? and if no why?

Lostinnarnia and I have discussed this and reached our decision on it, but we just wonder what others think.

If you pay attention to verse 8 it talks about how the man is not of the woman, but the woman is of the man.(talking about how God took and made a woman from the man, made Eve from a rib of Adams and all that).

Also probably the most important and key verse is 15, talking about a womans hair is her covering. Before that in verse 5 it talks about how it's a dishonor for a woman to not have long hair, or a head covering.

Basically the verses say that the man is the head of the household, the woman, etc. as is stated in many other books and verses in the Bible, and how all things belong to God. So the hair is the head covering for the woman, it doesn't mean that a woman should go and literally put some sort of covering on her head just to go out in public.

In fact, it says in verse 15 that for a woman to have long hair is GLORY. It's given for a cover.

So ok I'm done rambling about this now, just wondering others take on this topic/subject. This is just mean for discussion, not to cause any arguments or anything. Lets all respect one another and their beliefs.

lostinnarnia · Jan 6, 2009

well i agree with you
i think the conclusion youve come to is a wise one^^

Stand_Up_4_God · Jan 6, 2009

aww you're so awesome! thanks for the support! *pokes* *hugs* *giggles*

lil-rush · Jan 6, 2009

Key phrase: “for that is one and the same AS IF her head were shaved.” Now why say “as if” if Paul is talking about shaved heads to begin with? I think Paul is talking about literal head coverings.

Also “For if a woman is not covered, let her ALSO be shorn” One cannot also be shorn if one’s head is already shaven. You are saying a woman’s covering is her hair, but if that is true, why say let her be shorn for not having a covering? That is a bit redundant, is it not?

Verse 15 does give me pause, and perhaps could be taken as a different type of covering referred to in verses 5 and 6.

You know, it’s passages like these that give people pause to even give credence to Paul’s writings. I think a further study of chapter 11 is in order for me at the moment, because these verses seem to contradict other parts of the Bible. Namely verse 14. Samson had long hair, after all, and he was blessed by God (well for part of his life anyways). IDK, I still think Paul is speaking of a literal head covering.

NoahsDad · Jan 15, 2009

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
It starts here in the 3rd verse ,notice where it says this(and the head of the woman is the man)does this mean that MEN instead of women should have long hair?or be covered when a woman
prophesies? 1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
I think the thaught would probably go down to the interpretation of the words Pray,Prophesy,and Covered
1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
who isa mans' head?how would you cover Christ?By having long hair?
gets stranger when you break it down huh?

goth4god · Jan 15, 2009

lol in the end i dont think its a huge deal cuz it doesn't have anything to do with us believing in God and having a relationship with him. and its not like God ifs goign to reject a prayer cuz your head was covred or not. and i have short hair but God still loves me. lol
I think in this day and age women would feel stupid putting on a head covering everytime they went to pray. and what if they wanted to pray but forgot the head covering. lol...idk....its just not a huge deal to me.
like think if you went to a person and told them about God and were all 'btw... you have to cover your head when you pray' lol i think ppl in modern times would find that weird and prolly not be too inclined to Christianity.
*shrugs* that was just my 2 cents! ^_^

Truth2010 · Feb 1, 2009

goth4god said:

We have to be careful NOT to put ourselves (or give opinions) on what God considers "that big a deal". If it is written, then it is a command... For us to ignore parts of the Bible is not wise. So, if it is written, then it is for a reason. The women that I know cover themselves (heads) when they pray or prophesy.

NoahsDad · Feb 3, 2009

they cover their husbands?
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God

Slepsog4 · Feb 3, 2009

The subject matter was women being covered while praying or prophesying. How does this even relate to being out in public? I have never understood how these run together.

The original language actually states that the woman's hair is given to her instead of a covering (ie, veil). The final use of the term covering is a completely different and unrelated term in comparison to all the other ones (covered; un-covered)

MahogonySnail · Feb 3, 2009

Instead of just making up theories and trying to figure things out, do some research, look up some bible commentaries..

Barnes commentary on
1Co 11:5

With her head uncovered - That is, with the veil removed which she usually wore. It would seem from this that the women removed their veils, and wore their hair disheveled, when they pretended to be under the influence of divine inspiration. This was the case with the pagan priestesses; and in so doing, the Christian women imitated them. On this account, if on no other, Paul declares the impropriety of this conduct. It was, besides, a custom among ancient females, and one that was strictly enjoined by the traditional laws of the Jews, that a woman should not appear in public unless she were veiled. See this proved by Lightfoot in loco.
Dishonoureth her head - Shows a lack of proper respect to man, to her husband, to her father, to the sex in general. The veil is a token of modesty and of subordinaion. It is regarded among Jews, and everywhere, as an emblem of her sense of inferiority of rank and station. It is the customary mark of her sex, and that by which she evinces her modesty and sense of subordination. To remove that, is to remove the appropriate mark of such subordination, and is a public act by which she thus shows dishonor to the man. And as it is proper that the grades and ranks of life should be recognized in a suitable manner, so it is improper that, even on pretence of religion, and of being engaged in the service of God, these marks should be laid aside.
For that is even all one as if she were shaven - As if her long hair, which nature teaches her she should wear for a veil (1Co_11:15, margin,) should be cut off. Long hair is, by the custom of the times, and of nearly all countries, a mark of the sex, an ornament of the female, and judged to be beautiful and comely. To remove that is to appear, in this respect, like the other sex, and to lay aside the badge of her own. This, says Paul, all would judge to be improper. You yourselves would not allow it. And yet to lay aside the veil - the appropriate badge of the sex, and of her sense of subordination - would be an act of the same kind. It would indicate the same feeling, the same forgetfulness of the proper sense of subordination; and if that is laid aside, all the usual indications of modesty and subordination might be removed also. Not even under religious pretences, therefore, are the usual marks of sex, and of propriety of place and rank, to be laid aside. Due respect is to be shown, in dress, and speech, and deportment, to those whom God has placed above us; and neither in language, in attire nor in habit are we to depart from what all judge to he proprieties of life, or from what God has judged and ordained to be the proper indications of the regular gradations in society.

MahogonySnail · Feb 3, 2009

Gill commentary on
1Co 11:5

with her head uncovered. It may seem strange from whom the Corinthian women should take up this custom, since the Jewish women were not allowed to go into the streets, or into any open and public place, unveiled (u). It was a Jewish law, that they should go out no where bare headed (w): yea, it was reckoned scandalous and ignominious to do so. Hence it is said, (x) שגלוי הראש גנאי להם, "that uncovering of the head is a reproach" to the daughters of Israel: and concerning the adulterous woman, it is represented as said by the priest

,
"thou hast separated from the way of the daughters of Israel; for the way or custom of the daughters of Israel is להיות מכוסות ראשיהן, "to have their heads covered"; but thou hast gone "in the ways of the Gentiles", who walk with head bare.''
So that their it should seem that these Corinthians followed the examples of the Heathens: but then, though it might be the custom of some nations for women to go abroad bare headed; yet at their solemnities, where and when they were admitted, for they were not everywhere and always, they used to attend with their heads veiled and covered (z). Mr. Mede takes notice indeed of some Heathen priestesses, who used to perform their religious rites and sacrifices with open face, and their hair hanging down, and locks spreading, in imitation of whom these women at Corinth are thought to act. However, whoever behaved in this uncomely manner, whose example soever she followed, the apostle says,
dishonoureth her head; not her husband, who is her head in a figurative sense, and is dishonoured by her not being covered; as if she was not subject to him, or because more beautiful than he, and therefore shows herself; but her natural head, as appears from the reason given:
for that is even all one as if she were shaven; to be without a veil, or some sort of covering on her head, according to the custom of the country, is the same thing as if her head was shaved; and everyone knows how dishonourable and scandalous it is for a woman to have her head shaved; and if this is the same, then it is dishonourable and scandalous to her to be without covering in public worship. And this shows, that the natural head of the man is meant in the preceding verse, since the natural head of the woman is meant in this.

MahogonySnail · Feb 3, 2009

So did Paul mean women should wear coverings on their heads? Yes absolutely.

He said it was the custom of the churches at the time...

1Co 11:16 But if anyone wants to argue about this, we do not have any custom like this, nor do any of God's churches.

Do we need to today? No. We don't really have those customs anymore. So I agree that it isn't such a big deal.

Stand_Up_4_God · Feb 3, 2009

I sort of wish I hadn't put this on here now, all it has done is caused a big disagremeent and argument. It's not THAT big of a deal, it was just a topic and for feedback and all. I did research/study it if that's what you want to call it. Anyways, funny thing is those that say it isn't such a big deal are the ones that keep going on about it. So here's the deal, since a simple question and statement caused so much confusion and all, lets just consider this thread "closed" that way no more confusion or arguing or whatever happens.

Slepsog4 · Feb 3, 2009

Snail... what are you quoting? You give no references. You bring in Hebrew but 1 Cor. was written in Greek.

Also, what ancient Israel may have been doing (?) has little to do with the Corinthian/Greek culture.

MahogonySnail · Feb 3, 2009

slepsog... they are two bible commentaries on those verses, one is Barnes, the other Gill.

Bible commentaries - you know, they're the things that we can use to explain the bible to us. They often give the historical context so we can understand better what these ancient texts are saying. Instead of making up theories and trying to figure it out ourself or "what it means to us". The important thing is to know what it meant to the person who wrote it.

Slepsog4 · Feb 3, 2009

I missed where it said it was from Gill. But that still does not explain how jumping ship from a Greek culture in the first century to a Jewish culture that was over 2 thousand years old makes sense.

1 Corinthians must be understood in light of the very pagan polytheistic and highly immoral culture of Corinth (Greece).

Be careful about over dependency on commentaries. Commentators bring their own biases to the table too. If one knows what their denominational and doctrinal perspective you can look for their biases. Also one must look for inconsistencies and extrapolation and illogical leaps. One must look for contradictions with other biblical data.

MahogonySnail · Feb 4, 2009

thats part of the problem, why is Paul telling these non-Jewish churches for the women to cover their heads?

Slepsog4 · Feb 4, 2009

I would like to recommend the following link for your reading:

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=1co&chapter=011

MahogonySnail · Feb 4, 2009

thats an interesting view about it being about hair, but i do think it meant an actual veil, because Paul went to great lengths to say "get a haircut", so I don't think its that simple. Paul contrasted with hair to explain, if a woman is uncovered without a veil, it is as if her hair were shaved, and if a man is covered, it is as if he had long hair . The veil is a sign of subjection , thats what the notes in the Geneva bible say anyway about this.

Truth2010 · Feb 6, 2009

Women have to cover their heads PERIOD when they pray or prophesy... Who are we to say we dont have to go by that today? Of course we do!

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