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L
oh!
okay. i think i knew that part, that the moses covenant is replaced by the new covenant Jesus made.
but isn't the abrahamic covenant the one that is the new covenant? that's the one we have, isn't it?
do you mean christians have everything in the covenant with abraham except the land? i get it (i think) or is the new covenant different than the promise to abraham?
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
is that the part about israel's land promise inheritence?
okay. i think i knew that part, that the moses covenant is replaced by the new covenant Jesus made.but isn't the abrahamic covenant the one that is the new covenant? that's the one we have, isn't it?
do you mean christians have everything in the covenant with abraham except the land? i get it (i think
) or is the new covenant different than the promise to abraham?If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
is that the part about israel's land promise inheritence?
Parts of the Abrahamic Covenant have been fulfilled historically already...and those parts have been fulfilled literally...in accordance with the historical-grammatical method of interpreting the Bible, not in accordance with the allegorical or spiritualizing method. The national, physical aspects of Abraham's covenant will yet be fulfilled to the nation Israel (Jeremiah 30).
The Davidic covenant is an extension of the covenant God made with Abraham. In the Davidic covenant God reaffirmed and detailed the kingdom aspect of the Abrahamic covenant. (2 Samuel 7:12-17).
Israel's future existence, restoration and kingdom is based on God's promise to Abraham and David. This is why the kingdom is certain in spite of Israel's rebellion. The covenants are unconditional and eternal.
The meaning of Galatians 3:29 is: God promised to bless Abraham and his nation and the entire world through his Seed. Jesus Christ is Abraham's Son and inherits these blessings and bestows them upon those who believe. Galatians 3:29 has nothing to do with the physical "land" promise God gave to Abraham and his physical descendants through Isaac, not Ishmael.
what will it be like when Jesus returns and sets up his kingdom? we wouldn't be back under the law, would we? Linda said God set aside the nation israel until then. does that mean there will be a temple and all the things that they had when Jesus was there talking to them?
i guess i should just ask what will it be like when Jesus sets up his kingdom. haha.
i guess i should just ask what will it be like when Jesus sets up his kingdom. haha.
Premillennialism in the Old Testament, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum
L
The term "Messianic Christians" is a misnomer. Messiah is the Hebrew word for Christ. It's like saying "Christian Christians". Jews who are believers in the Messiah are members of the body of Messiah/Christ (the Church). They partake of the "spiritual" blessings of the Abrahamic and New Covenant.
You would be correct....
You would be correct....
ty. so the abrahamic covenant is not the same as the new covenant you posted above.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite and ty.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite
and ty.i did Linda. ty. even if the sacraments from moses are just for remeberance, wouldn't people get into trouble for not performing them (that would technically be breaking them, right)? are they even the sacraments from the covenant through moses or are they something else?
oh. this is way over my paygrade. i'm totally lost. i have to K.I.S.S. n.m.
night and thanks again.
oh. this is way over my paygrade. i'm totally lost. i have to K.I.S.S. n.m.
night and thanks again.
ty. so the abrahamic covenant is not the same as the new covenant you posted above.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite and ty.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite
and ty.
The temporary phase come from a partial hardening of the Jews ...until Rom 11...
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)
ty. so the abrahamic covenant is not the same as the new covenant you posted above.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite and ty.
time to go to work, but i will read up on the abrahamic covenant. is there a good article or two to help me understand it better? and where exactly is it in the old testament (like, in more than one place. can i read about the whole covenant in one place or is it in many places?). and where is it in the new testament, since i know it a lot better than the old?
this part i don't understand
The New Covenant includes Jewish believers in Messiah but thru a temporary phase of unbelief also to Gentiles
wasn't the abrahamic covenant a promise to all the families of the earth? or was that the new covenant? okay. TMI.
nite
and ty.
The Abrahamic Covenant
Revelation 2:27,And He shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Revelation 12:5, And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.
thanks for your answer, Linda70 sorry for being thick about it. but something sounds wrong. like, i just read the new testament, and i see the nation israel receiving the spiritual blessings, and being the church that Jesus died for
and then, like it says the gentiles got saved and included too. that didn't seem complicated at all. it seemed like God's promises from the very beginning were coming true, that he would send a savior for the world.
where does it say in the new testament that there is something different for jews or gentiles? i read the new testament a lot and i don't see that in there (not saying i understand everything i read, but i didn't see anything about separate things promised. i saw that there was one promise and it went to God's chosen people israel first and some didnt accept it, but the the gentiles were included also. that wasn't anything new because God told abraham that in his seed (isaac i guess) was the redeemer and that he was the father of many nations. i thought that was the promise, and that it was for all people.
okay, what's replacement theology? "the Church has replaced the nation of Israel"? i don't know what this means. isn't the church the nation of israel who believed on Jesus the jewish Messiah? idk...now i'm really messed up.
the church has land, i guess. everywhere they live around the world. but i thought we weren't supposed to lay up treasures here or love the world or expect anything lasting (?)
someone else posted this on another thread. it says abraham made his home in the promised land! but lived like a stranger in it. are you saying that wasn't the promise? sorry, i don't get it. it says Isaac and Jacob his sons who were heirs with him of the same promise also lived in the promised land, in the same way. like temporary.
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
is the city he was looking forward to israel as it is today? or sometime son God will remake it with foundations that are different?
gentiles are born again christians of jewish ethnicity? what? i do not get this at all.
i know gentiles and jews are different in the old testament, but is there a difference in the new testament? like, i know they are different races and stuff, but in Christ there's not any difference...is there? i'm confused because it says everywhere that Jesus made a special point of making them into one new man.
yes there is! the bible says jews who are born again and circumcision is of the heart!
okay, this i know is not right. everybody is grafted into the ROOT who is Jesus! the natural branches are the jews who knew the root, Jesus and didn't get cut off. and the gentiles who knew the Lord got grafted in!
or am i wrong? i might be wrong. i'm pretty messed right now. none of this makes any sense. i need to read it all again.
right!that's what i said! i agree, for sure. and all the way back to genesis. so what is the difference in Christ? or even not in Christ?
sorry, this is a really long post, and i'm sure i'm contradicting myself a million times already
but it says right here about them:
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
it says they did live in the promised land! i don't know about in the future part.
what do you mean? is there a promise for the future that was different from the one they already received? they died! how can they get something in the future when they already received it and they died?
well. this i'm not so sure about. christians is an english word, right? weren't God's people always his people all the way back in time? or are you saying the church is something different from being God's people i thought it said Jesus was the rock israel drank from in the wilderness and so on.
okay, i agree. the church in the new testament was originally jews. and God's people was the nation israel all the way to Jacob, right? but even before that God had his own people. like adam and noah and all the people before Jacob.
do you think christian is a derogatory term? i don't. it means they were followers of Jesus Christ. what's wrong with that? he was the one they had been waiting for all those years and years. i don't see how the church started somewhere part way through the new testament. that makes no sense. i see a new covenant was made with israel because the old one couldn't save them, and that the gentiles were included. in all the promises. unless i'm missing something really huge which i must be!
well now that sounds like the gospel message i read about and it doesn't seem to change part way through or anything like that. that's the whole story, isn't it? like, isn't that the good news? it's; not good news for people who reject Jesus, but what does that have to do with God's plan? i'm totally lost at this point.
okay, i've read about this, different versions of it and i can't make sense of it yet. what's God's purpose for the body of Christ? isn't the churhc or the body of believers from israel and gentiles being the church the whole point of why Jesus came and gave himself?
mary's song says
54He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”
so i don't understand. it says he did do it.
why is israel going to go through the tribulation? i thought that was for everyone?
i think i understand...you are saying that israel the NATION, as in the nation that came out of egypt has promises that God "set aside" (you said?). and that they will be fulfilled when Jesus sets up his kingdom.
peter of israel said to others from israel who believed-
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
if all the early church were jews from israel, how can the new covenant not be fulfilled for them? it was israel who sat at table with Jesus when he poured the wine and broke the bread with them and said he had made a new covenant in his blood.
sorry about such a long post. i prefer shorter, next time i will just try to ask shorter questions. where can i read about this
in the new testament? because that's what i believe tells us what we need to know.
sorry for being thick about it. but something sounds wrong. like, i just read the new testament, and i see the nation israel receiving the spiritual blessings, and being the church that Jesus died forand then, like it says the gentiles got saved and included too. that didn't seem complicated at all. it seemed like God's promises from the very beginning were coming true, that he would send a savior for the world.
where does it say in the new testament that there is something different for jews or gentiles? i read the new testament a lot and i don't see that in there (not saying i understand everything i read, but i didn't see anything about separate things promised. i saw that there was one promise and it went to God's chosen people israel first and some didnt accept it, but the the gentiles were included also. that wasn't anything new because God told abraham that in his seed (isaac i guess) was the redeemer and that he was the father of many nations. i thought that was the promise, and that it was for all people.
okay, what's replacement theology?
"the Church has replaced the nation of Israel"? i don't know what this means. isn't the church the nation of israel who believed on Jesus the jewish Messiah? idk...now i'm really messed up.the church has land, i guess. everywhere they live around the world. but i thought we weren't supposed to lay up treasures here or love the world or expect anything lasting (?)
someone else posted this on another thread. it says abraham made his home in the promised land! but lived like a stranger in it. are you saying that wasn't the promise? sorry, i don't get it. it says Isaac and Jacob his sons who were heirs with him of the same promise also lived in the promised land, in the same way. like temporary.
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
is the city he was looking forward to israel as it is today? or sometime son God will remake it with foundations that are different?
gentiles are born again christians of jewish ethnicity? what? i do not get this at all.
i know gentiles and jews are different in the old testament, but is there a difference in the new testament? like, i know they are different races and stuff, but in Christ there's not any difference...is there? i'm confused because it says everywhere that Jesus made a special point of making them into one new man.
yes there is! the bible says jews who are born again and circumcision is of the heart!
okay, this i know is not right. everybody is grafted into the ROOT who is Jesus! the natural branches are the jews who knew the root, Jesus and didn't get cut off. and the gentiles who knew the Lord got grafted in!
or am i wrong? i might be wrong. i'm pretty messed right now. none of this makes any sense. i need to read it all again.
right!that's what i said!
i agree, for sure. and all the way back to genesis. so what is the difference in Christ? or even not in Christ? sorry, this is a really long post, and i'm sure i'm contradicting myself a million times already
but it says right here about them:
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
it says they did live in the promised land! i don't know about in the future part.
what do you mean? is there a promise for the future that was different from the one they already received? they died! how can they get something in the future when they already received it and they died?
well. this i'm not so sure about. christians is an english word, right? weren't God's people always his people all the way back in time? or are you saying the church is something different from being God's people
i thought it said Jesus was the rock israel drank from in the wilderness and so on.okay, i agree. the church in the new testament was originally jews. and God's people was the nation israel all the way to Jacob, right? but even before that God had his own people. like adam and noah and all the people before Jacob.
do you think christian is a derogatory term? i don't. it means they were followers of Jesus Christ. what's wrong with that?
he was the one they had been waiting for all those years and years. i don't see how the church started somewhere part way through the new testament. that makes no sense. i see a new covenant was made with israel because the old one couldn't save them, and that the gentiles were included. in all the promises. unless i'm missing something really huge which i must be!well now that sounds like the gospel message i read about and it doesn't seem to change part way through or anything like that. that's the whole story, isn't it? like, isn't that the good news? it's; not good news for people who reject Jesus, but what does that have to do with God's plan? i'm totally lost at this point.
okay, i've read about this, different versions of it and i can't make sense of it yet. what's God's purpose for the body of Christ? isn't the churhc or the body of believers from israel and gentiles being the church the whole point of why Jesus came and gave himself?
mary's song says
54He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”
so i don't understand. it says he did do it.
why is israel going to go through the tribulation? i thought that was for everyone?
i think i understand...you are saying that israel the NATION, as in the nation that came out of egypt has promises that God "set aside" (you said?). and that they will be fulfilled when Jesus sets up his kingdom.
peter of israel said to others from israel who believed-
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
if all the early church were jews from israel, how can the new covenant not be fulfilled for them? it was israel who sat at table with Jesus when he poured the wine and broke the bread with them and said he had made a new covenant in his blood.
sorry about such a long post. i prefer shorter, next time i will just try to ask shorter questions. where can i read about this
in the new testament? because that's what i believe tells us what we need to know.
You know your NT very well and have it right.
It tells us all we need to know about the gospel that saves.
You have done a good job of flagging what is contra-NT.