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But WOF doesn't pray to God. Their faith is not in God. Their faith is in their own faith as a little god themselves. Instead of prayer and supplication to God they speak "words of life into the atmosphere" and over things and people. Breaking the First Commandment is idolatry "you shall have no other gods but Me." This they are doing believing they are gods. Col 3:5 says that covetousness is idolatry. This is what Moses said the Israelites were really doing by their sacrifices to idols:
They offered sacrifices to demons, which are not God, to gods they had not known before, to new gods only recently arrived, to gods their ancestors had never feared.
Deuteronomy 32:17 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/deu.32.17.NLT
They offered sacrifices to demons, which are not God, to gods they had not known before, to new gods only recently arrived, to gods their ancestors had never feared.
Deuteronomy 32:17 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/deu.32.17.NLT
And who are you to speak for them? Do you know their hearts? Do you know every individual who is of the wof? It is not for you to decide who they are praying to nor is it for you to judge them. I know several here on cc who belong to the wof and they are very loving and very holy spirit filled people and I don't appreciate you slandering people based on your own biased agenda against their denomination.
Honestly the accusations here are ridiculous and uncalled for
Honestly the accusations here are ridiculous and uncalled for
You know the doctrine yet you don't know their hearts and it isn't their doctrine your attacking it's them. Also their doctrine is in scripture
Mathew 7:7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Mathew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
Jesus always said if we have faith, in everything he taught us the key thing was if we have faith. And if one has the faith to ask and believe they have received then we should rejoice in their tribute of faith to God. Granted there are some in the owf who are corrupt I have even been severely burned by some wof believers because apparently my faith is to weak because I prayed for healing for my friend and the answer was no yet I still defend those who wrongly attacked.
You know of the doctrine but don't understand it, you know of the wof believers but do not know their hearts. You cannot clump an entire denomination together with the bad fruits of their region in faith
Mathew 7:7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Mathew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
Jesus always said if we have faith, in everything he taught us the key thing was if we have faith. And if one has the faith to ask and believe they have received then we should rejoice in their tribute of faith to God. Granted there are some in the owf who are corrupt I have even been severely burned by some wof believers because apparently my faith is to weak because I prayed for healing for my friend and the answer was no yet I still defend those who wrongly attacked.
You know of the doctrine but don't understand it, you know of the wof believers but do not know their hearts. You cannot clump an entire denomination together with the bad fruits of their region in faith
It seems you don't know the wof doctrine as well as you think you do. Firstly they do not think themselves little god's and second faith is believing in the unseen so if they have the faith to fully believe in what they ask for then I would say we should rejoice they are able to have such faith I know I wish I did. What makes the word of faith is in the name not the doctrines you think they are about. And also there is a difference in attacking and giving correction, I am all for discussing the pro's and cons of the word of faith but what I will not stand for is false slandering against others especially when it's not even from the spirit of love but out of spite of their denomination.
So yes I will make it clear where I stand and where you need to learn whether you see it as attacking or correction and whether you want me to or not.
So yes I will make it clear where I stand and where you need to learn whether you see it as attacking or correction and whether you want me to or not.
I know WOF all too well. You either don't know or are being dishonest. I have many WOF teachers I can quote you teaching the little god doctrine from my personal library but here are only a couple of the main teachers. Let me know if you want me to pull out all of my quotes in my personal library:
'Little gods' controversy Edit
Many Word of Faith teachers have sought to emphasize the full meaning of the believer's status as a child of God (through Christ) by using phrases such as "little gods" to describe them, a practice that has garnered some criticism from some other segments of the Christian community. Kenneth Hagin wrote that God "made us in the same class of being that he is himself," and that the believer is "called Christ" because "that's who we are, we're Christ!"[25] According to Hagin, by being "born again", the believer becomes "as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth".[26] Hagin like Kenyon reasons that humans are made in God’s image. Since God is spirit, then humans must essentially be spirit as well and ‘in God’s class’,[27][28] and thereby ‘gods’.[27][29] Kenneth Copeland says Adam was "not a little like God... not almost like God...",[30] and has told believers that "You don't have a God in you. You are one." Based primarily on the Psalms 82:6[bible 12], which says "I have said, Ye are gods and all of you, children of the Most High," this was also corroborated by Jesus making reference to this scripture in John 10:34[bible 13].[31] A common theme in Word of Faith preaching is that God created man as "an exact duplication of God's kind." (Hebrews 1:3[bible 14], John 14:12[bible 15], etc.)[32] In all of this, there is no argument of man's ability to exist and operate independently of God, but rather, the emphasis is on what the believer can become in God.[33]
Suffer the Children, a documentary highlighting some of the teachings of the Word of Faith movement, has a video clip of Creflo Dollar teaching the "little gods" doctrine to his congregation based on the notion that "everything reproduces after its own kind":[34]
Dollar: "If horses get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Horses!"
Dollar: "If dogs get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Dogs!"
Dollar: "If cats get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Cats!"
Dollar: "So if the Godhead says 'Let us make man in our image', and everything produces after its own kind, then they produce what?"
Congregation: "gods!"
Dollar: "gods. Little "g" gods. You're not human. Only human part of you is this flesh you're wearing."
The promulgation of this teaching is one of the most contentious doctrines to its critics, who consider it heresy. Mormon scholar Stephen E. Robinson, whose religion, citing the Bible and primitive church fathers, teaches that man can become gods after eons of exaltation, has declared the "little gods" teaching heretical.[35][36] Conversely, mainstream Christianity regards this Mormon teaching as heretical as well, and entirely disputes any purported biblical basis for the Mormon view. Many Evangelical critics have asserted that the "little gods" teaching is, in fact, cultic; Hank Hanegraaff, for example, contends the 'little gods' doctrine is on a par with the teaching of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Jim Jones.[37] Justin Peters, whose first encounter with Word of Faith doctrine came at the age of 16 when a faith healer "slayed [him] in the spirit" in an attempt to cure his cerebral palsy, states in A Call for Discernment that the reason the Word of Faith movement holds so tenaciously to "health and wealth" tenets is because of the "little gods" teaching: "A god should never be sick, and a god should never be poor."[38] In response, Word of Faith defenders have claimed the teaching is simply underscoring the biblical view of the believer's "true identity in Christ".
Critics, such as Christian apologist and CARM founder Matt Slick and Bible critique author W. Gary Phillips, believe referencing scriptures Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34, where it is said that men are gods, is using these Scriptures out of context.[39] The biblical application of these verses is addressed to the Judges of Israel where they were called gods, not because they were divine, but because they represented the true and only God when they judged the people. The Hebrew and Greek words used in both Scriptures for "gods" can also be applied to magistrates and used to describe someone as "mighty".[40]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith
'Little gods' controversy Edit
Many Word of Faith teachers have sought to emphasize the full meaning of the believer's status as a child of God (through Christ) by using phrases such as "little gods" to describe them, a practice that has garnered some criticism from some other segments of the Christian community. Kenneth Hagin wrote that God "made us in the same class of being that he is himself," and that the believer is "called Christ" because "that's who we are, we're Christ!"[25] According to Hagin, by being "born again", the believer becomes "as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth".[26] Hagin like Kenyon reasons that humans are made in God’s image. Since God is spirit, then humans must essentially be spirit as well and ‘in God’s class’,[27][28] and thereby ‘gods’.[27][29] Kenneth Copeland says Adam was "not a little like God... not almost like God...",[30] and has told believers that "You don't have a God in you. You are one." Based primarily on the Psalms 82:6[bible 12], which says "I have said, Ye are gods and all of you, children of the Most High," this was also corroborated by Jesus making reference to this scripture in John 10:34[bible 13].[31] A common theme in Word of Faith preaching is that God created man as "an exact duplication of God's kind." (Hebrews 1:3[bible 14], John 14:12[bible 15], etc.)[32] In all of this, there is no argument of man's ability to exist and operate independently of God, but rather, the emphasis is on what the believer can become in God.[33]
Suffer the Children, a documentary highlighting some of the teachings of the Word of Faith movement, has a video clip of Creflo Dollar teaching the "little gods" doctrine to his congregation based on the notion that "everything reproduces after its own kind":[34]
Dollar: "If horses get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Horses!"
Dollar: "If dogs get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Dogs!"
Dollar: "If cats get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Cats!"
Dollar: "So if the Godhead says 'Let us make man in our image', and everything produces after its own kind, then they produce what?"
Congregation: "gods!"
Dollar: "gods. Little "g" gods. You're not human. Only human part of you is this flesh you're wearing."
The promulgation of this teaching is one of the most contentious doctrines to its critics, who consider it heresy. Mormon scholar Stephen E. Robinson, whose religion, citing the Bible and primitive church fathers, teaches that man can become gods after eons of exaltation, has declared the "little gods" teaching heretical.[35][36] Conversely, mainstream Christianity regards this Mormon teaching as heretical as well, and entirely disputes any purported biblical basis for the Mormon view. Many Evangelical critics have asserted that the "little gods" teaching is, in fact, cultic; Hank Hanegraaff, for example, contends the 'little gods' doctrine is on a par with the teaching of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Jim Jones.[37] Justin Peters, whose first encounter with Word of Faith doctrine came at the age of 16 when a faith healer "slayed [him] in the spirit" in an attempt to cure his cerebral palsy, states in A Call for Discernment that the reason the Word of Faith movement holds so tenaciously to "health and wealth" tenets is because of the "little gods" teaching: "A god should never be sick, and a god should never be poor."[38] In response, Word of Faith defenders have claimed the teaching is simply underscoring the biblical view of the believer's "true identity in Christ".
Critics, such as Christian apologist and CARM founder Matt Slick and Bible critique author W. Gary Phillips, believe referencing scriptures Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34, where it is said that men are gods, is using these Scriptures out of context.[39] The biblical application of these verses is addressed to the Judges of Israel where they were called gods, not because they were divine, but because they represented the true and only God when they judged the people. The Hebrew and Greek words used in both Scriptures for "gods" can also be applied to magistrates and used to describe someone as "mighty".[40]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith
Please take a closer look at what is written sir.
Vs 23 is about SPEAKING TO THE MOUNTAIN, while vs 24 is about ASKING GOD for "whatsoever", and vs 25 is saying, forgive others or you won't be forgiven.
You are correct when you said that our faith is to be in God, which I neglected to write. I wrote for us to "have the faith OF God".
Either way, without God creating the fruit of our lips, or giving us the petition we ask of Him, we will receive nothing. And without having faith in God to do the same, again, we will receive nothing. And the only way I know to have faith in God is to believe what He said, or in what is written. And one of the most important verses in the bible I hold on to and continue to remind God is about His faithfulness to do what He said. I'm not TRYING to MAKE God do something He doesn't want to do, nor am I TRYING to convince God to do anything for me that He doesn't already want to do, when I remind Him of His word. What I am doing is convincing my heart that God will do what He said He would do, because if my heart doesn't believe, then I don't believe, and it will NOT manifest. But if my heart can be convinced that God WILL indeed do what He said in His word and cause my words to manifest or come to pass in the natural, or that He would answer my petition, then I will know it will come to pass. Once I know in my heart that I have something and speak it out my mouth or ask God in prayer for whatsoever and believe it is already done, without any doubt, then I know it is done or granted, and nothing will be able to stop it form manifesting. And that is what Mark 11:22-25 is about.
It's really very simple, IF you believe what is written.
I didn't take anything out of context, nor did I change the meaning, nor add to or take away anything from what is written.
Look at what I wrote again, and aside from the fact that I neglected to say that our faith is to be in God, can you show me where I perverted what is written in the verses of discussion? And can you still tell me that vs 23 is not about WOF?
Vs 23 is about SPEAKING TO THE MOUNTAIN, while vs 24 is about ASKING GOD for "whatsoever", and vs 25 is saying, forgive others or you won't be forgiven.
You are correct when you said that our faith is to be in God, which I neglected to write. I wrote for us to "have the faith OF God".
Either way, without God creating the fruit of our lips, or giving us the petition we ask of Him, we will receive nothing. And without having faith in God to do the same, again, we will receive nothing. And the only way I know to have faith in God is to believe what He said, or in what is written. And one of the most important verses in the bible I hold on to and continue to remind God is about His faithfulness to do what He said. I'm not TRYING to MAKE God do something He doesn't want to do, nor am I TRYING to convince God to do anything for me that He doesn't already want to do, when I remind Him of His word. What I am doing is convincing my heart that God will do what He said He would do, because if my heart doesn't believe, then I don't believe, and it will NOT manifest. But if my heart can be convinced that God WILL indeed do what He said in His word and cause my words to manifest or come to pass in the natural, or that He would answer my petition, then I will know it will come to pass. Once I know in my heart that I have something and speak it out my mouth or ask God in prayer for whatsoever and believe it is already done, without any doubt, then I know it is done or granted, and nothing will be able to stop it form manifesting. And that is what Mark 11:22-25 is about.
It's really very simple, IF you believe what is written.
I didn't take anything out of context, nor did I change the meaning, nor add to or take away anything from what is written.
Look at what I wrote again, and aside from the fact that I neglected to say that our faith is to be in God, can you show me where I perverted what is written in the verses of discussion? And can you still tell me that vs 23 is not about WOF?
7
how bout we address the part where you told me to take it elsewhere and then we can get around to the words you spin, actually mean something else? something VERY different that you refuse to acknowledge
God is not going to correct people who are on the wrong path unless they ACKNOWLEDGE their error, TURN from their error and ACCEPT and BELIEVE the TRUTH
you are just doing a mashup of various verses to try and substantiate your error
there is no reason on the planet ANYONE should pay ANY attention to that type of ...cough...cough..'expository' unless they are already embedded in the WOF/NAR subversive renderings...in which case they will one day really be wishing they had paid better attention. it will come. wait for it. it will come.
that mishmash is YOUR little world and those that follow the erroneous and grievous errors of WOF, because it IS WOF...practically right out of the textbook
7
oh my
people do not understand or do not want to understand the spirit behind this type of thing
I could write a long post here, but I don't think people even want to hear it
has nothing to do with love or being polite
the sarcastic side of me would say 'let's all love each other on the road to hell and put others before us as they fall off the cliff'
the better side of me will say ' faith is not a force and that should be enough for some folks to understand what we are getting at here'
You have to read in paragraphs. A paragraph is a single thought unit. You are wrenching a single verse (v23) out from its context., out from the unit of thought it belongs and making a whole different thought. If Jesus were saying that, then why don't we see any Apostles casting mountains around the Israeli terrain into the Mediterranean Sea by speaking at them?
oh my
people do not understand or do not want to understand the spirit behind this type of thing
I could write a long post here, but I don't think people even want to hear it
has nothing to do with love or being polite
the sarcastic side of me would say 'let's all love each other on the road to hell and put others before us as they fall off the cliff'
the better side of me will say ' faith is not a force and that should be enough for some folks to understand what we are getting at here'
people do not understand or do not want to understand the spirit behind this type of thing
I could write a long post here, but I don't think people even want to hear it
has nothing to do with love or being polite
the sarcastic side of me would say 'let's all love each other on the road to hell and put others before us as they fall off the cliff'
the better side of me will say ' faith is not a force and that should be enough for some folks to understand what we are getting at here'