Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

[ChosenbyHim]

Eternal Security​

You CANNOT lose your salvation!​

by David J. Stewart



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Eternal Security is the Biblical doctrine that a believer CANNOT lose salvation in Christ Jesus. I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a "relationship" with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatic are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. The Bible teaches, If Saved, Always Saved.
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Salvation is By Faith Alone in Jesus; and Not Works​

If mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God; not men. Paul said to "work out your own salvation" in Philippians 2:12; the Bible doesn't say to work out GOD'S SALVATION. God saves a person, pulling them out of the fires of Hell; but now that person needs to be recycled. It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the "free gift" (Romans 5:15) of salvation. Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: "...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

​

We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..." And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving; NOT giving. Romans 4:5 reads, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." This is how Abraham was saved in the Old Testament, i.e., his faith was COUNTED for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Acts 10:43 teaches that Old Testament sinners were saved exactly as they are today... "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."​

If I cannot do good works to get saved, then how can I do bad works to be unsaved?​

Eternal life is a gift, paid for by Jesus precious, redeeming, literal, physical blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:5). Shame on those heretics, such as Dan Corner, who corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ.

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There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called "Lordship Salvation" and it is evil. The very idea that one's lifestyle is a part of saving faith is damnable heresy. Opponents of Eternal Security all follow Lordship Salvation, and they all use the corrupted New International Version. ​

Perhaps you ask, what if a believer loses faith? A believer certainly may become discouraged, or falter in their faith for a time. John the Baptist became discouraged and wavered in his faith, even questioning if Jesus were the Christ (Matthew 11:3); yet, Jesus called John the greatest born amongst women (Matthew 11:3,11). Peter denied that he knew Christ, curding the name of Jesus; but the Holy Spirit convicted him and Peter later repented. However, none of these believers LOST their salvation and there's not one shred of Biblical evidence to show otherwise.​

If you are a parent, your child didn't make a commitment to become your child; but rather, they were born to become your child. Likewise, we are born-again to become God's child. Just as a child has absolutely NOTHING to do with his or her own birth, neither does the Christian have anything to do with their spiritual birth. It is completely of God. Our part is done the moment we believe, receiving Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”​

If you don't believe the Bible, you can either get right or die wrong.
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False Christians Never Saved to Begin With​

A born-again believer does NOT convert to the Mormon faith or become an atheist. When a man claims that he "used to be a Christian," but now has become a Jehovah's Witness, he's a liar. He never was a Christian to begin with. He may have once had the philosophy of Christianity, or the organization of Christianity; but he never had genuine Christianity, which is found by faith in Jesus Christ alone.


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You don't trust Christ one day and then forsake him the next, it doesn't work that way. A child of God will always be a child of God. If you don't have Jesus Christ today, it is ONLY because you never really trusted Him at all. In contrast to the other Apostles, Judas was a known unrepentant thief (John 12:6). We have no Scriptural reason to believe that Judas was ever a believer. This is why the Bible warns us to make sure we are saved—"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith..." (2nd Corinthians 13:5). Most of America's churchgoers are still lost and on their way to Hell. ​

They have religion; but not Jesus Christ. They have been lied to by false prophets like Dan Corner, Ray Comfort and John MacArthur to think that they must live lives of obedience, holiness and faithfulness to be saved. They are self-righteous. Are you really a Christian? Churches today are filled with people who are not saved. Most people today have churchianity without Christianity. Please make certain you have been born-again. You need HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS! The road to Hell is paved with good intentions (Proverb 14:12; 2nd Corinthians 11:13,14). Please don't miss the gift of God.
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Genuine Believers Cannot Lose God's Salvation

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John 5:24 states: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."​

If you're a believer on Jesus Christ, then you can NEVER lose your salvation. Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Did you read that? We shall NEVER perish, and NO MAN can affect our salvation. Someone may pray to God for you to "burn in Hell" (a popular saying in society today); but that simply cannot happen to a believer. You choose your own destiny based upon your acceptance (or denial) of Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Did you know that God CANNOT lie? According to Titus 1:2 God cannot lie! Well, God promised in Romans 10:13 to save anyone who trusts on Jesus' name... "For whosoever shall call [rely] upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13). ​

We are wonderfully reassured in 1st John 5:13 that we can KNOW that we are eternally secure:

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." ​

—1st John 5:13​

I love this verse!... that we may "KNOW," not think, but KNOW that we have eternal life. How could anyone be so foolish as to think that a person could lose "eternal life?" If you can lose it, then is it eternal? No! When God promises us eternal life, that is exactly what He means. Jesus didn't say, "I give unto them temporal life"; no rather, He said, "I give unto them eternal life (John 10:28)." I am eternally secure in Jesus' arms...​

"The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms..." —Deuteronomy 33:27​

Don't tell me I can lose my salvation! There is NO such teaching in the Bible! ​

What about "falling from grace?" ​

You cannot lose your salvation, period. You can lose fellowship with God and the joy of one's salvation, buy you cannot lose your salvation. Can a son no longer be a son? Of course not! You can disown Him (which I think is horrible and unscriptural), but he's still your son. No matter what your son does, he's still your son. The same is true with our Heavenly Father. Jesus never forsakes us...​

"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." —Hebrews 13:5​

God cannot lie! (Titus 1:2). As a matter of fact, the Bible is speaking of Eternal Security when It tells us that God cannot lie... "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2). What a loving God! You can speak to people from many different religions and you'll discover a pervading sense of fear and uncertainty. They don't have the precious promises which the Bible offers to the Christian believer. ​

No wonder Jesus said:​

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." —Matthew 11:28​

False religion enslaves people, placing souls into chains of bondage which are not easily broken. Oh don't be so foolish to believe their lies! You can KNOW that you are saved certain. You must realize that salvation is completely of God; NOT man in any way. Our faith is merely a key which unlocks God's saving grace. Salvation is a supernatural act of God in response to our faith. I did not save myself—Jesus saved me. If I did nothing to earn salvation, then how can I do something bad to lose it? Jesus paid a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay. Eternal life is the free gift of God, available ONLY through faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 4:10-12; John 14:6). ​

The Bible clearly teaches that eternal life is a gift. As a matter of FACT, the Bible even calls our salvation a FREE GIFT.


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[Elizabeth619]

Were the apostles saved? Eternally?

 

[Skinski7]

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Were the apostles saved? Eternally?

Elizabeth, that is a very good question. And that is the first time I have ever been asked that question. So, I definitely need to study that particular subject since we must remember that when Jesus was on the earth performing His ministry and doing the Father's will, that the Jews were still doctrinally under the Old Testament. In other words, before the time when the Apostle Paul received the Gospel by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Some believe that the Dispensation of Grace had not yet began. And I believe that the Church Age began somewhere in Acts 13 since that is where and when the Apostle Paul takes over the lead role in the mission to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles as Peter quietly exits the scene.

So again, I'll have to study that subject further. Again, good question.

In the meantime though, here is an article that might help you a little with your question. Here is the link to it:

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1068064419.html

 

[Skinski7]

If mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God; not men.​

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the "free gift" (Romans 5:15) of salvation.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: "...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation.​

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



David j Stewart is a blind leader of the blind. He does not understand grace, faith or salvation. The works that do not save anyone are the works done apart from God.

Striving to enter in at the strait gate and being a doer of the word are by definition "works." Yet they are works done by faith and they are indeed mandatory in order for salvation to take place.

When the Bible says it is not of works it is speaking of those who would try and make themselves righteous before God by yielding to some form of outward righteous apart from yielding to God through the Spirit. It is also speaking of how it is through God's mercy that God offers salvation, not of something we did that made God owe us.

Jesus taught repent or perish. Jesus taught to strive, dig deep, count the cost, pick up your cross, deny yourself and follow Him. Jesus taught that YOU have to do something.

We are to be workers together with God lest we receive His grace in vain. If we are not doers of the word then we just deceive ourselves. Those who are not doers are not purified through obedience to the truth. They remain defiled and workers of iniquity and will be rejected at the judgement.

Do not be one of them!
​

 

[Elizabeth619]

Elizabeth, that is a very good question. And that is the first time I have ever been asked that question. So, I definitely need to study that particular subject since we must remember that when Jesus was on the earth performing His ministry and doing the Father's will, that the Jews were still doctrinally under the Old Testament. In other words, before the time when the Apostle Paul received the Gospel by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Some believe that the Dispensation of Grace had not yet began. And I believe that the Church Age began somewhere in Acts 13 since that is where and when the Apostle Paul takes over the lead role in the mission to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles as Peter quietly exits the scene.

So again, I'll have to study that subject further. Again, good question.

In the meantime though, here is an article that might help you a little with your question. Here is the link to it:

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1068064419.html

The reason why I asked that was because of Judas. He was CHOSEN be Jesus yet betrayed him. He admitted his sin, but did not put his faith in Christ and went off and killed himself. So the question is... was he eternally saved or was this chosen man not a follower of Christ to begin with?

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

Facts about Judas: He was an apostle (Mt. 10, Mark3:13-19), Filled with the Holy Spirit (Mt.10:20) a found sheep (Mt. 10:16), Ordained to preach (Mk. 3:13),Ordained to heal (Mk.3:13-14) was endued with power (Mk. 10:1-8.) a successful preacher and healer (Mk6:7-13; Lk. 9:6,10) A baptiser in water (Jn.4:1-2),a possessor of eternal life (Jn. 17:2,12.) A saved man that had his name in the book of life (acts 1:20 ps. 69:25-28, Luke 10:20, Mk.6:13) promoised a eternal kingdom (Mt.19:28) first treasurer of the church (Jn. 12:4-6, 13:29.) A familuar friend of Jesus (Ps. 41:9) the Hebrew for familuar is shawlome means: safe, favored, perfect, freind. Would Christ Jesus trusted an enemy? Would he have chosen and ordained a unsaved man to preach by the power of the Holy Spirit? Judas was trusted by Christ Jesus (Ps. 41:9) Jesus knew what was in men (Jn.2:25) he knew Judas could be trusted like any saved man or women until he or she falls into to sin.. Judas was not an emeny of Christ Jesus he did not hate Jesus but gave him equal favore trusted him to guide him as an apostle who counseled and fellowshipped with Jesus in God's house (Ps. 55:12-14,this refers to is betrayal is clear Jn.13:18-19: Acts1:16-17 Ps.41:9). He was a divine officer of the gospel(Ps. 109:8,acts 1:20,Mt.1:1-8). Had a part and shared in the apostolic ministry (Acts 1:16-17,25 Mt.10:1-20.)
Became a thief(Jn. 12:4-6) an adversary (Jn.6:70) unclean (Jn.13:10-11) and by transgression fell as the same as all backsliders (Acts1:25, Mk 14:21). Has any one reading this about Judas done more than he before his fall from faith and grace into sin and faithlessness dispare and self destruction. Did he believe did he follow did he love Jesus did his heart change did he become a thief did he betray Jesus did he repent from His sin? Did he die destroying his own physical life?
I Corth 3:16-17 Judas destroyed the temple of the Holy Spirit which was his own body.

 

[chasten]

That was the funniest post I have read all day. Dude...you need to look into your bible a little deeper, cause uhm... yeah. Im not even gonna say anything, but that was funny, and thanks for the laugh. Well, the bible never contradicts itself, and while it has all those verses you listed, it also has all the verses SkinSki had...SO 2+2=4. Youve got the first step down, so on to the next.

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

That was the funniest post I have read all day. Dude...you need to look into your bible a little deeper, cause uhm... yeah. Im not even gonna say anything, but that was funny, and thanks for the laugh. Well, the bible never contradicts itself, and while it has all those verses you listed, it also has all the verses SkinSki had...SO 2+2=4. Youve got the first step down, so on to the next.

To whom are you replying to? I gave proofs to Judas losing His salvation!

 

[chasten]

Well, probably the first post. And I know you did, good show...Its just funny that dude really thinks that. You cant just pick and choose what verses you agree with. Go on and try to make it to heaven on your own understanding. See how that works for ya.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The reason why I asked that was because of Judas. He was CHOSEN be Jesus yet betrayed him. He admitted his sin, but did not put his faith in Christ and went off and killed himself. So the question is... was he eternally saved or was this chosen man not a follower of Christ to begin with?

I don't believe he was ever saved. Because remember that the Lord Jesus called him a devil.

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? - John 6:70

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Well, probably the first post. And I know you did, good show...Its just funny that dude really thinks that. You cant just pick and choose what verses you agree with. Go on and try to make it to heaven on your own understanding. See how that works for ya.

Chasten, there is only one way to heaven and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ. And our salvation is not based on our works. Therefore if you believe that salvation can be lost, then basically what you believe is that you can keep your salvation by your works.

Actually, King James Bible believers do not pick verses that they only agree with. It is usually self righteous people who like to base their salvation on their works and cause a Christian to think that he can lose his salvation that are picking verses that seem to agree with their man made doctrine. You see, you cannot take verses out of context. You've got to rightly divide the Bible into its proper dispensations. In this dispensation, a Christian is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of Redemption. You need to read Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30.

I really don't what was so funny about the post earlier. What's really funny is people who think that they can keep their salvation by their works when they could not even earn their salvation by their works. Isn't that strange? Again, believe what you want, but Eternal Security is Biblical. And whether you like it or not, a born again believer can never lose his salvation and neither can he be "un born again." Learn how to rightly divide your Bible. Well, first get a King James Bible, and then learn how to rightly divide it. Don't use the satanic bibles like the NIV, ESV, NASV, Message, etc.

But get God's true and pure word, the King James Bible. And learn to study it and rightly divide it.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

David j Stewart is a blind leader of the blind. He does not understand grace, faith or salvation. The works that do not save anyone are the works done apart from God.

Striving to enter in at the strait gate and being a doer of the word are by definition "works." Yet they are works done by faith and they are indeed mandatory in order for salvation to take place.

When the Bible says it is not of works it is speaking of those who would try and make themselves righteous before God by yielding to some form of outward righteous apart from yielding to God through the Spirit. It is also speaking of how it is through God's mercy that God offers salvation, not of something we did that made God owe us.

Jesus taught repent or perish. Jesus taught to strive, dig deep, count the cost, pick up your cross, deny yourself and follow Him. Jesus taught that YOU have to do something.

We are to be workers together with God lest we receive His grace in vain. If we are not doers of the word then we just deceive ourselves. Those who are not doers are not purified through obedience to the truth. They remain defiled and workers of iniquity and will be rejected at the judgement.

Do not be one of them!
[/left]

The only thing we have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. Your sacraments cannot save you, trying to keep the ten commandments cannot save you either. Since it seems so hard for some people to understand that salvation only by grace through faith in this dispensation which we are now living in. Here is what the apostle Paul wrote in regard to salvation.

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:1-10




We don't do good works to get saved. We do good works because we are saved!


Stop trying to complicate the Gospel. It is simple when you take the Gospel as it is and receive it.

Now discipleship comes after salvation. So, don't get it mixed up.

 

[GreenNnice]

This is true , what drawnbyHim says, we are not saved by works, but Christ is clear tyat once saved , a.k.a., brrn again, YOU will work and YOU will produce fruit and God will put a Love inside you as you do the good thiGalatians 5. Otherwis, you, indeed, can lose your salvation, the very unconfusing prophecy of John makes this Truth clear in Revelation, that one can lose 'the love' of following Christ (don't ask why, it can happen!! Scripture is Truth ) and thus their 'lampstand' can be removed.

What is their lampstand? Salvation .


So this 'the love' lost is a VERY extreme losing, not lost salvation from lack of doing works but lost salvation from having accepted and followed Christ before the Devil's influece on the saved's flesh cuses them to 'depart the faith.' And, 'course, the Devil can Himself deceive or his demons or false teachers and profits can also cause departation, so to speak.

Paul NEVER speaks of 'works' not being done by the saved can lose their salvation but if Paul is the writer of Hebrews (a good numbe think he did write it) then Paul states that one can ONLY depart from faith by having the Spirit in them ( and, that 'Judas' being a 'devil,'is that too saying that the Scripture of Judas having Holy Spirit (Matt. 10:20) making bible say something else contradictorily? No) and having TASTED that sweetness, left (departed?).

If you are eternally grateful, this by NO means means you are eternally saved. You can depart IF you lose your fauth by temptation overtaking you. Just because Paul says we have power over temptation an we have a way of ESCAPE, we still have to WANT to escape . Pleasure of sex, driugs, rock and roll is a choice, choosing it over God is choosing that as your god and IF the Spirit is leading you then you want to go His way, not of the flesh,cwhich you crucified yourself from when born again.

 

[Skinski7]

The only thing we have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. Your sacraments cannot save you, trying to keep the ten commandments cannot save you either. Since it seems so hard for some people to understand that salvation only by grace through faith in this dispensation which we are now living in. Here is what the apostle Paul wrote in regard to salvation.

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:1-10




We don't do good works to get saved. We do good works because we are saved!


Stop trying to complicate the Gospel. It is simple when you take the Gospel as it is and receive it.

Now discipleship comes after salvation. So, don't get it mixed up.

Believe that if you want but it is not what Jesus taught. Paul did not teach a different Gospel to Jesus but you believe he did under the guise of dispensationalism. You cannot isolate scripture to build a theology and simply ignore the other scriptures. Jesus taught that you must pick up your cross, deny yourself and follow Him. That means YOU must do something and you ignore the words of Jesus at your own peril.

You have separated discipleship and salvation, ie. you have separated justification and sanctification. Thus you are teaching that you can be justified and still remain in sin and not surely die. That is Satan's gospel, it may tickle the ears and make you feel good but the end of that path is death.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is an abused passage which is ripped out of context by many today. It is not teaching that you don't have to do anything, it is teaching that we are God's workmanship and not our own. We don't save ourselves apart from the grace of God which is accessed through an obedient faith. That is what Paul is teaching.

The Pharisees sought their righteousness in the law which means they believed they could clean the outside of the cup by following a set of rules. Salvation is of the heart and it is a result in yielding to the word of God within, His grace. We yield to the grace of God by an obedient faith and the result is inward purity. This is why the scriptures teach that obedience purifies the heart, it is why the scriptures teach that God is the author of the salvation of those who obey Him. Those who obey Him are yielding to His grace and thus the workmanship of God is complete.

"Believe" is not simple mental acknowledgement of some facts. Authentic belief involves aligning one's life with the reality one believes in. A person who truthfully believes in Jesus will yield to His instruction, hence those who believe will be saved.

Disobedience is equivalent to unbelief. You can teach that one can be "saved" and not strive, not pick up their cross, not die to self, not enter the narrow way, not depart from iniquity etc. To do so you are only deceiving yourself and others. James said as much when he wrote that we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving ourselves.

Please don't be deceived but consider these things carefully as you soul is at stake and this is not a game. This is not about "opinion" or "who is right," rather it is about the truth and aligning ourselves with the truth no matter what it is.

Jesus meant exactly what He said. FEW will be saved and the way is indeed narrow. You MUST strive, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him. Following Jesus means to actually "DO" what He taught to do.

 

[Skinski7]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Ephesians 2:1-10 commentary.


Eph 2:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And you [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]hath he quickened,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] who were dead in trespasses and sins; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]God does the quickening. We don't quicken ourselves. He quickens us when we are still dead in our trespasses and sins for we cannot make ourselves alive. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Look at these verse below...[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]him[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:13 connects the quickening with the forgiveness of sin. Look at this verse...[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Act 3:19[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Here we have sins getting blotted out at the time of the refreshing. Notice that repentance and conversion are conditions set forth for this to occur. Also take note that in order to repent one does not have to have been refreshed. Many false teachers will say that one cannot repent (change of mind which necessitates ceasing of willful sin) unless they are first saved. Nineveh and the Prodigal Son both repented and 2Cor 7:10 clearly have repentance occurring prior to salvation.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Refreshing[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - [/FONT]anapsuxis
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G404[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; properly a [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]recovery[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]of[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]breath[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], that is, (figuratively) [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]revival:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - revival.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Quickened[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - [/FONT]suzōopoieō
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G4862[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G2227[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]reanimate[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]conjointly[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] with (figuratively): - quicken together with.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]If the context of these verses is studied in conjunction with their definitions it is clearly see that these two words have to do with the with the revival of our spirit. This is a direct parallel to being raised up by God. It is especially evident in Col 2:12 and the result is walking in newness of life (Rom 6:4).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even so we also should walk in newness of life. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]we shall be also [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]in the likeness[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]his[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] resurrection: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]him,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 8:11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] that dwelleth in you. [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ye are risen with [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]him[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] through the faith of the operation of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] who hath raised him from the dead. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Operation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - [/FONT]energeia
[FONT=Georgia, serif]en-erg'-i-ah[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G1756[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]efficiency[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (“energy”): - operation, strong, (effectual) working.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]The quickening, the refreshing, and the operation of God are all references to exactly the same thing. It is an effectual working of the power of God within the soul of a repentant sinner. It is tied to the forgiveness of sins (Act 3:19, Col 2:13) and it is conditional on walking in the light (1Joh 1:7).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]God gives this power to those who receive Him, we do not give this power to ourselves but it is conditioned on receiving Him. This is what being born again actually means, we are born from above by the power of God.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]J[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]oh 1:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to them that believe on his name: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Joh 1:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]How do we receive Him? By doing this...[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 1:21[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 1:22[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]We lay apart all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness FIRST and then we can receive with meekness the implanted word. This is why repentance comes before salvation.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Co 7:10[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]God is not going to raise you up unless you first deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow Him. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mar 8:34[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And when he had called the people [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]unto him[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] with his disciples also, he said unto them, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mar 8:35[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]A grain of wheat must die before it can bring forth fruit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Joh_12:24[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]This is when we die with Christ in repentance crucifying our old man (Rom 6:6) which is the same as putting off the body of sins of the flesh (Col 2:11) which is why that those who are Christ's HAVE (PAST TENSE) crucified their flesh with its passions and desires (Gal 5:24).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Let's keep going in Ephesians 2 shall we.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:2[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]A true Christian walked in times past according to the course of the world and Satan. Not anymore though because they repented and forsook that lifestyle. The old man lived according to the flesh but that old man has been crucified.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Pe 4:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Pe 4:2[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] That [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]he no longer should live the rest of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]his[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]There is a change from one state to another and thus we no longer live according the flesh.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 8:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 8:14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]See how 1Pet 4:2 connects to Rom 8:13? Gal 5:16 is another parallel scripture.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Gal 5:16[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]This[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]None of this is optional, if you walk after the flesh you will perish just like it says in Rom 8:13.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eternal life is in yielding to the Spirit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Gal 6:8[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [/FONT]

 

[Skinski7]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Conversation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - [/FONT]anastrepho
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G303[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G4762[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]overturn[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; also to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]return[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; by implication to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]busy[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] oneself, that is, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]remain[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]live:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - abide, behave self, have conversation, live, overthrow, pass, return, be used.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:3 speaks of the former walk of the Christian, how they previously walked in the lusts of their flesh. In the former walk the old man was not crucified, the passions and desires of the flesh had not been put to death, and there was definitely no walking after the Spirit. Due to this walk of rebellion we were children of wrath, it was our very nature. Not a nature we were born with, but a nature that we developed through the repeated yielding to sin.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Nature[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - [/FONT]phusis
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G5453[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]growth[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (by [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]germination[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] or [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]expansion[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]), that is, (by implication) natural [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]production[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (lineal [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]descent[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]); by extension a [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]genus[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] or [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]sort[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; figuratively native [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]disposition[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]constitution[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] or [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]usage:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Out nature is a native disposition that grows. It is even clearer if you use some of the other lexicon's like Thayer's etc. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 2:14-15 speak of doing the right thing by nature thus there are two sides to the coin. Those who promote original sin often take Eph 2:3 , isolate it and then rip it out of context to prove that we are born sinners. It is a lie.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Nature is also used in 2 Pet 1:4 where it speaks of the divine nature after having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Any person who is still in bondage to the lusts of the flesh cannot partake in the divine nature because the flesh and the spirit are mutually exclusive. The flesh with its lusts must be crucified. They don't teach you that in church. Don't be deceived, this is not a game for your soul is at stake.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Another paralell passage to Eph 2:3 is found in Ephesians 5.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 5:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]let it not be once named among you[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], as becometh saints; [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 5:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 5:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For this ye know, that [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 5:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 5:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Be not ye therefore partakers with them. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]The conduct of the children of wrath in Eph 2:3 and the children of disobedience in Eph 5:6 are the same. Paul warns to not let anyone deceive you with vain words because if you do those things you will not escape judgment for them (1 Cor 6:9-10).

[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Let's keep reading in Ephesians 2.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Here Paul speaks of God's mercy and how he loved us so much that he quickened us when we were dead in sins. Paul connects the quickening to the grace of God. This quickening saves us, we are still dead in our sins until it occurs (Act 3:19, Col 2:13, 1 Joh 1:7, Heb 9:14). [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Paul is not teaching here that you get saved in your sins. The quickening is conditioned on repentance and conversion (Act 3:19), dying to self (Joh 12:24), laying aside all known sin (Jam 1:21, Joh 1:12-13), being buried into the death of Christ (Rom 6:4-5), putting off the body of sins by the circumcision of Christ (Col 2:10-13). [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]The moment before you are quickened you are still dead in your sins. We cannot quicken ourselves. The act of forsaking all known sin in a broken repentance does not quicken us, it is merely fulfilling a condition that God demands before He will raise us up (Jam 4:7-10).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]This raising up is also an ongoing thing as our minds are continually renewed (2Cor 4:16) as we look forward to ultimately being raised up in glorified bodies (Rom 6:5).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Let's keep reading...[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And hath raised [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]us[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] up together, and made [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]us[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] sit together in heavenly [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]places[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in Christ Jesus: [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]We are raised up together with Christ exactly as it says in Rom 6:4-5 and Col 2:12[/FONT]

 

[Skinski7]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]his[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:8[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]it is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the gift of God: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:10[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]We are God's workmanship through the power of his grace.[/FONT]


Grace - charis
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G5463[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]graciousness[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (as [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]gratifying[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]gratitude[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Remember how Paul tied the quickening to grace is verse 5.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 2:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Grace is the power of God, it is divine influence on the heart. It has appears to all men teaching them how to live.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]grace of God that bringeth salvation[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] hath appeared to all men, [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]It is the grace of God that brings salvation through the initial drawing on our conscience (Joh 1:9) and through the preaching of the Gospel when we hear it. If we respond to the call through a genuine repentance and faith God will quicken us, He will raise us up to new life.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]We have to yield to the work of grace through an obedient faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God and thus faith is a gift of God but we have to diligently seek God and he will reward us.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 11:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]without faith [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]it is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] impossible to please [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]him:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]that[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]We access the grace of God through faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 5:2[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]We receive grace for obedience to the faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 1:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Saving faith is a working faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 2:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Noah by faith took action and built an ark. Was he saving himself or earning his salvation?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 11:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Was Abraham earning his salvation, being prideful and self righteous by obeying God?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 11:8[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]When the Israelites marched around Jericho 7 times in obedience to God where they saving themselves, being self righteous, being prideful, or saying look at me like a Pharisee?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 11:30[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Is someone who teaches that you must repent and forsake your sins BEFORE God will forgive you being self righteous, prideful, saving themselves, counting on their own power? That is what some on these forums would have you believe.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Grace is the power of God that He provides by His good graciousness. We have to apply it through an active obedient faith. When we apply the grace of God to our lives through an active obedient faith we are working together with God. This is synergism and this is what the Bible plainly teaches.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Co 6:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] We then, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]as[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] workers together [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]with him,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] beseech [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]you[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Workers Together - [/FONT]sunergeō
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G4904[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]be[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]a[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]fellow[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]worker[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], that is, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]co-operate:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - help (work) with, work (-er) together.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]If you are not a worker together with God then you receive grace in vain. God requires us to be a doer of the word and not a hearer only.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. You know what work out means?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Work Out - [/FONT]katergazomai
[FONT=Georgia, serif]From [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G2596[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]G2038[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]work[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]fully[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], that is, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]accomplish[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; by implication to [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]finish[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]fashion:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]See it is God that works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure but we have to put it to use by faith and work fully, accomplish, finish, perform in order to put it to use.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]his[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] good pleasure. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:13 is the grace of God and Php 2:12 is our faith. We are saved by grace through faith which is what Eph 2:8 says. We are not saved of ourselves just like Noah was not saved of himself, Noah was a worker together with God and we are to be workers together with God too.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]God is the author of salvation of those who obey Him. Those who are obeying Him and putting to use His grace by faith. They are abiding in Jesus Christ and they bear much fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 5:9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And being made perfect, he became [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Joh 15:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Joh 15:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am the vine, ye[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]are[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Obedient faith purifies the heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Act 15:9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And put no difference between us and them, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]purifying their hearts by faith. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Pe 1:22[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Seeing [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]see that ye[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] love one another with a pure heart fervently: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Pe 1:23[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Being born again[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. [/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Those with a pure heart are those who will see God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 5:8[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Blessed[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]are[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the pure in heart: for they shall see God.[/FONT]









[FONT=Georgia, serif]Now those of you who actually took the time to read this have to ask yourselves a question.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Am I telling your the truth you the truth that you must repent and forsake your sins before you get forgiven (Pro 28:13, Isa 55:7, 2 Cor 7:10, Jam 1:21), that you must obey God (Joh 15:10), that you must strive to enter in at the strait gate (Luke 13:24) and endure the narrow way (Mat 7:14). [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Or am I puffed up and self righteous dangerous deceiver who is trying to earn my salvation, trying to save myself by my own power, full of pride, saying to God “look at me and how good I am.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]We all have a Bible. Dig deep and study to show thyself approved.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]God bless.[/FONT]



[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:21[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:22[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:23[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/FONT]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Believe that if you want but it is not what Jesus taught. Paul did not teach a different Gospel to Jesus but you believe he did under the guise of dispensationalism. You cannot isolate scripture to build a theology and simply ignore the other scriptures. Jesus taught that you must pick up your cross, deny yourself and follow Him. That means YOU must do something and you ignore the words of Jesus at your own peril.

Skinski7, you need to rightly divide your Bible.Yes Jesus did teach that. I understand that is what was taught in the Gospels. But do you even understand the context in which our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was teaching in regard to us denying ourselves, taking up our cross and following Him? The context was about discipleship. Not salvation. You cannot reverse the order of the two. Like I mentioned in my first post. Salvation always comes before discipleship. You have to remember that. We receive salvation by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Now to be a disciple of Jesus Christ takes discipline.

You have separated discipleship and salvation, ie. you have separated justification and sanctification. Thus you are teaching that you can be justified and still remain in sin and not surely die. That is Satan's gospel, it may tickle the ears and make you feel good but the end of that path is death.

No Skinski7, it is obvious that you have not read my whole post. I never said that a Christian can live in sin and not surely die. You are just falsely making an accusation that that is what I am teaching when I am not teaching that at all. If you would have read my whole post, then you would have seen that I clearly said that if a Christian continues to sin and does not receive correction and chastisement from God the Father, then that Christian will live a miserable life, he will lose his joy, his testimony, his fellowship with God, his peace, his rewards at the Judgement Seat of Christ, and even his millennial inheritance. And not only that, but that Christian will may lose his health and may even lose his life! Stop confusing sanctification with salvation. Just as discipleship comes after salvation, sanctification comes also after salvation. Stop trying to reverse the order and process of things.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is an abused passage which is ripped out of context by many today. It is not teaching that you don't have to do anything, it is teaching that we are God's workmanship and not our own. We don't save ourselves apart from the grace of God which is accessed through an obedient faith. That is what Paul is teaching.

Of course it is teaching that we are God's workmanship Skinski7, I understand that.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13

But guess what it's also teaching? It is also teaching that we are simply saved by grace through faith and NOT OF OUR WORKS!

The Pharisees sought their righteousness in the law which means they believed they could clean the outside of the cup by following a set of rules. Salvation is of the heart and it is a result in yielding to the word of God within, His grace. We yield to the grace of God by an obedient faith and the result is inward purity. This is why the scriptures teach that obedience purifies the heart, it is why the scriptures teach that God is the author of the salvation of those who obey Him. Those who obey Him are yielding to His grace and thus the workmanship of God is complete.

Well that is quite obvious that those religious pharisees were depending on their vain self righteousness to save them.

"Believe" is not simple mental acknowledgement of some facts. Authentic belief involves aligning one's life with the reality one believes in. A person who truthfully believes in Jesus will yield to His instruction, hence those who believe will be saved.

Read Romans 10:9-10. That is correct, even the devils believe and they tremble.
You have trust in Christ and believe on His name.

Disobedience is equivalent to unbelief. You can teach that one can be "saved" and not strive, not pick up their cross, not die to self, not enter the narrow way, not depart from iniquity etc. To do so you are only deceiving yourself and others. James said as much when he wrote that we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving ourselves.

We are doers of the word when we apply it to our lives and we strive to be more like Christ. Which is a result of the Holy Spirit working through us and we yielding ourselves to his guidance. When we are filled with the Spirit, we develop the fruits of the Spirit.

Please don't be deceived but consider these things carefully as you soul is at stake and this is not a game. This is not about "opinion" or "who is right," rather it is about the truth and aligning ourselves with the truth no matter what it is.

This is about what the Bible says. Case closed. And the Bible teaches salvation is by grace through faith ONLY. And it is not of our works. For all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. (Isa. 64:6)

Jesus meant exactly what He said. FEW will be saved and the way is indeed narrow. You MUST strive, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him. Following Jesus means to actually "DO" what He taught to do.

Yes few will be saved. Because that is what the Bible clearly says and that is what the Lord Himself said in Matthew 7. But the reason why few will be saved is because many love darkness rather than light. Denying yourself, picking up your cross, and following Jesus is AFTER you get SAVED. It is not before. You just don't seem to know how to rightly divide your Bible. Again, discipleship is not the same thing as salvation. Discipleship only comes after Salvation. Again, stop complicating the Gospel of Grace. The Gospel is simple. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.


30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:30-31

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Elizabeth, that is a very good question. And that is the first time I have ever been asked that question. So, I definitely need to study that particular subject since we must remember that when Jesus was on the earth performing His ministry and doing the Father's will, that the Jews were still doctrinally under the Old Testament. In other words, before the time when the Apostle Paul received the Gospel by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Some believe that the Dispensation of Grace had not yet began. And I believe that the Church Age began somewhere in Acts 13 since that is where and when the Apostle Paul takes over the lead role in the mission to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles as Peter quietly exits the scene.

So again, I'll have to study that subject further. Again, good question.

In the meantime though, here is an article that might help you a little with your question. Here is the link to it:

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1068064419.html

The world has been under grace since adam and eve, Grace just was not paid for until the cross. The thief on the cross was saved by Grace. Abraham was saved by grace (romans 4) through faith.