-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
When Jesus was born of Mary He was NOT a spirit being. He was born a flesh and blood being just as you and I. God is a spirit being just as angels are spirit beings.
When Jesus died and returned to heaven He was made a spirit being once again. A flesh and blood being is NOT at the right hand of the Father. A spirit being, Jesus Christ, IS!
.
E
Here’s how Jesus tells us the (3) are ONE!!
Now this this the ONLY explanation of how, not only the (3) are one, but how ALL that have the same message are one. And this comes from Jesus Himself. How anyone could come up with some other doctrine not found in God’s word is beyond me….but leave it up to man to come up with the ‘mystery’! But first let's read this verse;
1 John. 5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us. Let's read the ONLY explanation of how the (3) are 'ONE'!
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
We see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. No mention of any other God; just God the Father AND God the Son. Let's continue;
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! So we too are ONE with God! But how? Let's read more. Let's see at what point Jesus mentions that the Holy Ghost is a God as He and the Father are both God's;
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE! Now let's read who brings the message of God;
John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.
Let's read an example of this from the scriptures;
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So we have God the Father giving a revelation to God the Son; Jesus Christ.
This revelation was to be given to their servant; John, by an Holy angel or Spirit!. Let's continue....
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So what we have in the Book of Revelation is the word of God the Father, given to His son; Jesus Christ, who in turn gave it to the Holy Spirit, who then gave it to John, who wrote it all down.
So ALL of them are ONE; God the Father, God the Son, the Holy Spirit that gave the message to John AND John himself for writing down ALL that the Holy Spirit revealed to him!
Let's Now Put it All Together
So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.
This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is from one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit from another. Nor does it mention anything about them being of the same substance or any nonsense like that. Nor is it a "Mystery" of faith!
The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3) separate entities, have and bring the SAME message.
That is why it is possible for you to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son!
That is why the Father can know the time and the hour of Jesus return, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son!
That is why the Son will judge and NOT the Father and the Holy Ghost!
Because they are all individual entities; God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit/angel of God, not A God!
There is no ‘mystery’! This makes sense!
Other than what is explained by Jesus Christ Himself in John 17.......THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION IS THE ENTIRE BIBLE!
Let's look at just one more verse given to us by Jesus;
John 17
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
So we are to be as ONE just as God the Father and Jesus are ONE! So however they are ONE we are ONE in the same way!
And how are God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit all ONE? Jesus already told us......
John 17
[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
You will find NO other explanation in all of God's word telling us how the Father and Jesus are one! And who else becomes ONE with them?
And the explanation comes from Jesus Himself.....
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
We ALL become ONE when we bring the same message. And since Jesus brought the same message that the Father gave Him...He became ONE with the Father! And since the Holy spirit...which is an Holy angel, brings ONLY what is given to him, he also is ONE with both the Son and the Father.
Again.....so simple. No mystery!
And let's not forget where are we to get ALL of our doctrine?
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
If it's not from the word of God.....it simply is not the truth!
.
Now this this the ONLY explanation of how, not only the (3) are one, but how ALL that have the same message are one. And this comes from Jesus Himself. How anyone could come up with some other doctrine not found in God’s word is beyond me….but leave it up to man to come up with the ‘mystery’! But first let's read this verse;
1 John. 5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us. Let's read the ONLY explanation of how the (3) are 'ONE'!
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
We see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. No mention of any other God; just God the Father AND God the Son. Let's continue;
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! So we too are ONE with God! But how? Let's read more. Let's see at what point Jesus mentions that the Holy Ghost is a God as He and the Father are both God's;
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE! Now let's read who brings the message of God;
John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.
Let's read an example of this from the scriptures;
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So we have God the Father giving a revelation to God the Son; Jesus Christ.
This revelation was to be given to their servant; John, by an Holy angel or Spirit!. Let's continue....
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So what we have in the Book of Revelation is the word of God the Father, given to His son; Jesus Christ, who in turn gave it to the Holy Spirit, who then gave it to John, who wrote it all down.
So ALL of them are ONE; God the Father, God the Son, the Holy Spirit that gave the message to John AND John himself for writing down ALL that the Holy Spirit revealed to him!
Let's Now Put it All Together
So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.
This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is from one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit from another. Nor does it mention anything about them being of the same substance or any nonsense like that. Nor is it a "Mystery" of faith!
The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3) separate entities, have and bring the SAME message.
That is why it is possible for you to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son!
That is why the Father can know the time and the hour of Jesus return, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son!
That is why the Son will judge and NOT the Father and the Holy Ghost!
Because they are all individual entities; God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit/angel of God, not A God!
There is no ‘mystery’! This makes sense!
Other than what is explained by Jesus Christ Himself in John 17.......THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION IS THE ENTIRE BIBLE!
Let's look at just one more verse given to us by Jesus;
John 17
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
So we are to be as ONE just as God the Father and Jesus are ONE! So however they are ONE we are ONE in the same way!
And how are God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit all ONE? Jesus already told us......
John 17
[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
You will find NO other explanation in all of God's word telling us how the Father and Jesus are one! And who else becomes ONE with them?
And the explanation comes from Jesus Himself.....
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
We ALL become ONE when we bring the same message. And since Jesus brought the same message that the Father gave Him...He became ONE with the Father! And since the Holy spirit...which is an Holy angel, brings ONLY what is given to him, he also is ONE with both the Son and the Father.
Again.....so simple. No mystery!
And let's not forget where are we to get ALL of our doctrine?
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
If it's not from the word of God.....it simply is not the truth!
.
E
I challenge ANYONE to find another explanation, within God's word, explaining exactly how the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are "ONE"!
We are to get our doctrine ONLY from the word of God! We are to use ALL of God's word to prove our doctrine!
So what will you do when another explanation cannot be found between Gen. and Rev.?
Will you continue to go with the man-made doctrine? Or will you serve God in Truth?
.
We are to get our doctrine ONLY from the word of God! We are to use ALL of God's word to prove our doctrine!
So what will you do when another explanation cannot be found between Gen. and Rev.?
Will you continue to go with the man-made doctrine? Or will you serve God in Truth?
.
T
Well I'm glad I gave everyone a reason to whip out there Bible dictionaries and start throwing scriptures at each other. This has been most entertaining. However, I think you all are missing out something very significant here. You all claim to know it all yet you argue with each other. You all claim to have the truth yet you can't seem to agree on what that truth is and what it means. This tells me you don't know as much as you think you do or you're clouded by confusion.
E
What you have is some going with a man-made doctrine that cannot be explained anywhere in God's word.
Then you have those that ONLY use the word of God to prove doctrine. If you read John 17 you will read the ONLY explanation in ALL of God's word that explains just how the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and ALL that have and bring the same message are one.
There is no confusion!
.
E
The same thing that will happen to all those who are found worthy upon Jesus return; Jesus was "Born Again"!
1 Cor. 15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
.
1 Cor. 15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
.
Your own quote destroys your argument.
Observe that many 'names' are listed but they are all referred to in the singular.
The Trinity shares the same name, you should already be familiar with this...
Further, the text does not say that Jesus IS the Father.
The Trinity judges the unrighteous.
'Holy angel'...?
In name and function.
The Trinity is separate and yet the same, may be another way to state it.
For instance, in the OT, God is stated to have one Throne...and in Revelation, the Son is said to occupy that one Throne with the Father. However, at the end of Revelation, Greek grammar mandates that the Father's Throne is separate fron the Son's throne.
The way the Trinity is...
For instance, in the OT, God is stated to have one Throne...and in Revelation, the Son is said to occupy that one Throne with the Father. However, at the end of Revelation, Greek grammar mandates that the Father's Throne is separate fron the Son's throne.
The way the Trinity is...