The Trinity

[Tintin]

Ecc, you are a brick wall, nothing is getting through to you. To him who has ears, let him hear.

 

[mark54]

Ecc, you are a brick wall, nothing is getting through to you. To him who has ears, let him hear.

On the contrary, I think ECCL has answered well in respect of how Father and Son are one. He is right. The explanation of this is given in John 17, and only there. For Christ prayed that we the believers might be one AS he and His Father are one.
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they(the believers) may be one AS we are one— [SUP]23[/SUP]I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. (NIV)

Unity of belief, being of one heart and one mind. I would though emphasise that truth comes from the Holy Spirit. Therefore, in effect we are made one(or can be as one) only by the Holy Spirit who resides in each and every Christian

Note I am speaking solely of oneness in respect of when Christ walked this earth

 

[mark54]

Ecc, you are a brick wall, nothing is getting through to you. To him who has ears, let him hear.

He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

 

[Tintin]

Ecc, doesn't seem to believe in the Trinity. Don't you see that?

 

[raoul]

Why indeed....
Why also does Jesus pray to God, not only in public but also in private if he is indeed, God in the flesh? Why too would he have prayed to God asking him "why have you forsaken me" while on the cross if he was in fact God. If he were God in the flesh surely he would have known he was God. Instead the scriptures teach us that God instructed Jesus and gave him truth, knowledge and power as tools to bring his message to us and guide us.

I do not wish to ruffle feathers but it would seem logical to me that although Jesus is a member of the Godhead, he could not be God fully.

As you can see I have a very difficult time with the Trinity idea and although it is true that faith does not require logic, we are an intelligent species which, to some degree requires logic to make sense of things. This does include faith.

I believe you should pray and meditate on your doubts and then repent.

 

[Elin]

When Jesus was born of Mary He was NOT a spirit being. He was born a flesh and blood being just as you and I. God is a spirit being just as angels are spirit beings.

When Jesus died and returned to heaven He was made a spirit being once again. A flesh and blood being is NOT at the right hand of the Father. A spirit being, Jesus Christ, IS!

So what happened to Jesus physical resurrection body when he returned to heaven?

The same thing that will happen to all those who are found worthy upon Jesus return; Jesus was "Born Again"!

Jesus' body was "born again" when he rose from the dead.

That does not answer the question of what happened to his physical resurrection body when he returned to heaven.

 

[Elin]

He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

So that's where this error comes from!

Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" never refers to the physical composition of man, but always to the perishable, weak, corrupt, sinful body of fallen man.

In the context of vv. 42-49, Paul is saying in 1Co 15:50 that the body of fallen man cannot enter heaven, that it must be changed to an imperishable, immortal resurrection body, for those are the only bodies that can enter heaven (vv. 52-54).

We will have physical, imperishable, immortal (glorified) bodies in heaven, just as Jesus does now.
Paul does not say there will be no physical bodies in heaven.

 

[mark54]

So that's where this error comes from!

Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" never refers to the physical composition of man, but always to the perishable, weak, corrupt, sinful body of fallen man.

In the context of vv. 42-49, Paul is saying in 1Co 15:50 that the body of fallen man cannot enter heaven, that it must be changed to an imperishable, immortal resurrection body, for those are the only bodies that can enter heaven (vv. 52-54).

We will have physical, imperishable, immortal (glorified) bodies in heaven, just as Jesus does now.
Paul does not say there will be no physical bodies in heaven.

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. [SUP]31
Matt 22:30

[/SUP]Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Heb1:14



Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. [SUP]7 [/SUP]We live by faith, not by sight. [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

2Cor5:6-8

However, if you can show me scriptrure that states flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom of Heaven, I will believe you

 

[Elin]

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. [SUP]31
Matt 22:30[/SUP]

Do not apply the similitude beyond its intended comparison to marriage.
It's not an overall statement regarding the nature of our being.
Here Jesus is saying only that as the angels do not marry, so we will not marry and procreate.

But we know that we will also be like the angels in that we will be pefect, we will never grow old.

re not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Heb1:14

Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. [SUP]7 [/SUP]We live by faith, not by sight. [SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2Cor5:6-8

Paul is not referring here to life after the general resurrection.

He is referring to the time immediately after his death, when his spirit has departed his body, which is still in the grave.
He indicates that at his death his spirit will then be at home with the Lord.

However, if you can show me scriptrure that states flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom of Heaven, I will believe you

I cannot show you where Scripture states "flesh and blood," but I can show you where Scriptures states what does inherit the kingdom of heaven, and it's not "flesh and blood" in the sense of Paul's meaning and usage of the term.

First of all, Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" means the "natural" perishable, dishonorable, weak, characterized-by-sin physical body of fallen man, as opposed to the "spiritual" physical body of those resurrected in Christ.
In Paul's meaning and usage, "flesh and blood" does not refer to the material, physical composition of man.

Secondly, the exact nature of our resurrection bodies is not specified in Scripture,

In 1Co 15:35-44, Paul describes similarity between our natural (earthly) body and our spiritual (physical) resurrection body, in that organizatinally it will be similar.
But he also describes radical change between the two, from a perishable, dishonorable, weak "natural" physical body characterized by sin, to an imperishable, glorious, powerful "spiritual" physical body fit to live eternally with God.
Paul describes continuity between the two, but also radical change.

In Paul's usage of "spiritual," it never means non-material, it always means the realm of the Holy Spirit (Ro 12:1; 1Co 213, 3:1, 12:1, etc., etc., etc.)

And Paul always opposes "spiritual" to "natural," he never opposes "spiritual" to "material" or "physical."
Our "spiritual" physical resurrection bodies will not be "natural" (weak and sinful), nor will they be immaterial or non-physical.

Jesus' resurrection body was not immaterial or non-physical (Lk 24:36-43), and so neither will ours be, for Jesus is the firstborn of those from among the dead. All those from among the dead will have the same kind of body that Jesus the firstborn of them had.

So Scripture clearly states what does inherit the kingdom of God, it is not the natural physical body ("flesh and blood") of fallen man, but the spiritual imperishable, glorious, powerful physical resurrection body fit to live eternally with God.

Misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spirit," "spiritual," and "flesh and blood" is causing the confusion on the issue of our spiritual physical resurrection bodies, like the resurrection body of Jesus (Lk 24:36-43).

 

[mark54]

Do not apply the similitude beyond its intended comparison to marriage.
It's not an overall statement regarding the nature of our being.
Here Jesus is saying only that as the angels do not marry, so we will not marry and procreate.

But we know that we will also be like the angels in that we will be pefect, we will never grow old.


Paul is not referring here to life after the general resurrection.

He is referring to the time immediately after his death, when his spirit has departed his body, which is still in the grave.
He indicates that at his death his spirit will then be at home with the Lord.


I cannot show you where Scripture states "flesh and blood," but I can show you where Scriptures states what does inherit the kingdom of heaven, and it's not "flesh and blood" in the sense of Paul's meaning and usage of the term.

First of all, Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" means the "natural" perishable, dishonorable, weak, characterized-by-sin physical body of fallen man, as opposed to the "spiritual" physical body of those resurrected in Christ.
In Paul's meaning and usage, "flesh and blood" does not refer to the material, physical composition of man.

Secondly, the exact nature of our resurrection bodies is not specified in Scripture,

In 1Co 15:35-44, Paul describes similarity between our natural (earthly) body and our spiritual (physical) resurrection body, in that organizatinally it will be similar.
But he also describes radical change between the two, from a perishable, dishonorable, weak "natural" physical body characterized by sin, to an imperishable, glorious, powerful "spiritual" physical body fit to live eternally with God.
Paul describes continuity between the two, but also radical change.

In Paul's usage of "spiritual," it never means non-material, it always means the realm of the Holy Spirit (Ro 12:1; 1Co 213, 3:1, 12:1, etc., etc., etc.)

And Paul always opposes "spiritual" to "natural," he never opposes "spiritual" to "material" or "physical."
Our "spiritual" physical resurrection bodies will not be "natural" (weak and sinful), nor will they be immaterial or non-physical.

Jesus' resurrection body was not immaterial or non-physical (Lk 24:36-43), and so neither will ours be, for Jesus is the firstborn of those from among the dead. All those from among the dead will have the same kind of body that Jesus the firstborn of them had.

So Scripture clearly states what does inherit the kingdom of God, it is not the natural physical body ("flesh and blood") of fallen man, but the spiritual imperishable, glorious, powerful physical resurrection body fit to live eternally with God.

Misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spirit," "spiritual," and "flesh and blood" is causing the confusion on the issue of our spiritual physical resurrection bodies, like the resurrection body of Jesus (Lk 24:36-43).

He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

Your response to the above quote from myself began this conversation. As there is no scripture to oppose my comment, and that is somethintg you accept, but there obviously is scripture to support it, I believe the quote can be considered accurate.
I will therefore leave it at that.

 

[danschance]

I did not bother to read thru every post, so I hope this is not redundent.

There is one example of the Trinity being at the same location.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened[SUP][b][/SUP] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy.”

 

[Elin]

He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

Your response to the above quote from myself began this conversation. As there is no scripture to oppose my comment, and that is somethintg you accept, but there obviously is scripture to support it, I believe the quote can be considered accurate.
I will therefore leave it at that.

Paul most definitely opposes your comment that we will not have physical bodies in heaven,
when he answers the question: "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

He answers by describing the physical resurrected bodies we will have as imperishable, glorious and powerful (1Co 15:35-44).

So what part of the following did you not understand?

The exact nature of our resurrection bodies is not specified in Scripture, other than they are physical.

In 1Co 15:35-44, Paul describes organizational similarity between our natural (earthly) body and our spiritual physical resurrection body, but he also describes radical change between the two, from a perishable, dishonorable, weak "natural" physical body characterized by sin, to an imperishable, glorious, powerful "spiritual" physical body fit to live eternally with God.
Paul describes continuity between the two, but also radical change.

In Paul's usage of "spiritual," it never means non-material, it always means the realm of the Holy Spirit (Ro 12:1; 1Co 213, 3:1, 12:1, etc., etc., etc.). Look 'em all up.

And Paul always opposes "spiritual" to "natural," he never opposes "spiritual" to "material" or "physical."
Our "spiritual" physical resurrection bodies will not be "natural" (weak and sinful), nor will they be immaterial or non-physical.

Jesus' resurrection body was not immaterial or non-physical (Lk 24:36-43), and so neither will ours be, for Jesus is the firstborn of those from among the dead (1Co 15:20-23). All those from among the dead will have the same kind of body that Jesus, the firstborn of them, had.

So Scripture clearly states what does inherit the kingdom of God, it is not the natural physical body of fallen man, but the spiritual imperishable, glorious, powerful physical resurrection body fit to live eternally with God.
Scripure does not teach there will be no physical bodies in heaven, that there will be only spirits.
That is your notion, based in misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual."

It is misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual" that is causing the confusion here on the issue of our spiritual physical resurrection bodies, which will be like the resurrection body of Jesus (Lk 24:36-43).

 

[mark54]

Paul most definitely opposes your comment that we will not have physical bodies in heaven,
when he answers the question: "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

He answers by describing the physical resurrected bodies we will have as imperishable, glorious and powerful (1Co 15:35-44).

So what part of the following did you not understand?

The exact nature of our resurrection bodies is not specified in Scripture, other than they are physical.

In 1Co 15:35-44, Paul describes organizational similarity between our natural (earthly) body and our spiritual physical resurrection body, but he also describes radical change between the two, from a perishable, dishonorable, weak "natural" physical body characterized by sin, to an imperishable, glorious, powerful "spiritual" physical body fit to live eternally with God.
Paul describes continuity between the two, but also radical change.

In Paul's usage of "spiritual," it never means non-material, it always means the realm of the Holy Spirit (Ro 12:1; 1Co 213, 3:1, 12:1, etc., etc., etc.). Look 'em all up.

And Paul always opposes "spiritual" to "natural," he never opposes "spiritual" to "material" or "physical."
Our "spiritual" physical resurrection bodies will not be "natural" (weak and sinful), nor will they be immaterial or non-physical.

Jesus' resurrection body was not immaterial or non-physical (Lk 24:36-43), and so neither will ours be, for Jesus is the firstborn of those from among the dead (1Co 15:20-23). All those from among the dead will have the same kind of body that Jesus, the firstborn of them, had.

So Scripture clearly states what does inherit the kingdom of God, it is not the natural physical body of fallen man, but the spiritual imperishable, glorious, powerful physical resurrection body fit to live eternally with God.
Scripure does not teach there will be no physical bodies in heaven, that there will be only spirits.
That is your notion, based in misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual."

Misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual" is causing the confusion here on the issue of our spiritual physical resurrection bodies, which will be like the resurrection body of Jesus (Lk 24:36-43).

Well firstly, please produce the plain scripture(not your exegesis) that states we will have 'physical bodies' in Heaven.

Originally Posted by Eccl12and13

What you claim above is IMPOSSIBLE!!

Jesus does NOT have a flesh and blood body now in heaven as He did after being born of Mary. Jesus was NEVER Fully God AND Man!


Your response to the above from ECCL
So we have a half-God in heaven. . . and we had a half-man on earth. . .

That's not working for me.

Below is my endorsement of ECCL's words
He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

Below is your response to my above post

So that's where this error comes from!

Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" never refers to the physical composition of man, but always to the perishable, weak, corrupt, sinful body of fallen man.



Now I don't profess to be the brightest spark on cc(far from it.)
But it seems to me you have taken issue with ECCL'S words that state

'Jesus does not have a flesh and blood body in Heaven now
And my endorsement of that view

So I do not misunderstand you
Do you believe Christ has a flesh and blood body now in Heaven?
If you do not, I cannot understand why you have taken issue with ECCL'S words or my endorsement of them

I'm not really interested in the rest of this.

I have simply stated I agree that neither Christ now, or any human in the future will live in Heaven with flesh and blood
So
Do you believe Christ now lives in Heaven in a body of flesh and blood?
Thank you

 

[mark54]

Paul most definitely opposes your comment that we will not have physical bodies in heaven,
when he answers the question: "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

He answers by describing the physical resurrected bodies we will have as imperishable, glorious and powerful (1Co 15:35-44).

So what part of the following did you not understand?

The exact nature of our resurrection bodies is not specified in Scripture, other than they are physical.

In 1Co 15:35-44, Paul describes organizational similarity between our natural (earthly) body and our spiritual physical resurrection body, but he also describes radical change between the two, from a perishable, dishonorable, weak "natural" physical body characterized by sin, to an imperishable, glorious, powerful "spiritual" physical body fit to live eternally with God.
Paul describes continuity between the two, but also radical change.

In Paul's usage of "spiritual," it never means non-material, it always means the realm of the Holy Spirit (Ro 12:1; 1Co 213, 3:1, 12:1, etc., etc., etc.). Look 'em all up.

And Paul always opposes "spiritual" to "natural," he never opposes "spiritual" to "material" or "physical."
Our "spiritual" physical resurrection bodies will not be "natural" (weak and sinful), nor will they be immaterial or non-physical.

Jesus' resurrection body was not immaterial or non-physical (Lk 24:36-43), and so neither will ours be, for Jesus is the firstborn of those from among the dead (1Co 15:20-23). All those from among the dead will have the same kind of body that Jesus, the firstborn of them, had.

So Scripture clearly states what does inherit the kingdom of God, it is not the natural physical body of fallen man, but the spiritual imperishable, glorious, powerful physical resurrection body fit to live eternally with God.
Scripure does not teach there will be no physical bodies in heaven, that there will be only spirits.
That is your notion, based in misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual."

It is misunderstanding of Paul's meaning and usage of "spiritual" that is causing the confusion here on the issue of our spiritual physical resurrection bodies, which will be like the resurrection body of Jesus (Lk 24:36-43).

BTW
This is what those scriptures you mentioned state:

But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” [SUP]36 [/SUP]How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. [SUP]37 [/SUP]When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. [SUP]39 [/SUP]All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. [SUP]40 [/SUP]There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. [SUP]42 [/SUP]So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; [SUP]43 [/SUP]it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; [SUP]44 [/SUP]it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [SUP]45 [/SUP]So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[SUP][e][/SUP]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. [SUP]46 [/SUP]The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. [SUP]48 [/SUP]As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. [SUP]49 [/SUP]And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[SUP][f][/SUP] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[SUP][f][/SUP] bear the likeness of the man from heaven

The above is conclusive. Now we are born in the likeness of the earthly man. THEN we will bear the likeness of the man from Heaven. And the man from Heaven does not Have a Physical body.

Now unless you can give me plain scripture that states we will have 'physical bodies' in Heaven. You are simply giving me your exegesis with no scripture to back it up. Therefore there is no point in continuing this discussion.
If you do produce the plain scripture, I will continue discussing it

 

[Elin]

Well firstly, please produce the plain scripture(not your exegesis) that states we will have 'physical bodies' in Heaven.

Originally Posted by Eccl12and13

What you claim above is IMPOSSIBLE!!

Jesus does NOT have a flesh and blood body now in heaven as He did after being born of Mary. Jesus was NEVER Fully God AND Man!

Your response to the above from ECCL
So we have a half-God in heaven. . . and we had a half-man on earth. . .

That's not working for me.

Below is my endorsement of ECCL's words
He is also right that Christ is not possessed of flesh and blood in Heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50)

Below is your response to my above post

So that's where this error comes from!

Paul's usage of "flesh and blood" never refers to the physical composition of man, but always to the perishable, weak, corrupt, sinful body of fallen man.

Now I don't profess to be the brightest spark on cc(far from it.)
But it seems to me you have taken issue with ECCL'S words that state

'Jesus does not have a flesh and blood body in Heaven now
And my endorsement of that view

So I do not misunderstand you
Do you believe Christ has a flesh and blood body now in Heaven?

I agree that neither Christ now, or any human in the future will live in Heaven with flesh and blood
So
Do you believe Christ now lives in Heaven in a body of flesh and blood?
Thank you

Okay, the only thing to which I can attest is that Scriptures tells us our spiritual resurrection bodies are physical (1Co 15:35-44), similar in organization to our natural earthly bodies, but also radically different, that there is continuity but also change in our physical bodies.

Scripture does not tell us what the material composition of our physical resurrection bodies are, only that they are physical, so I cannot attest either way regarding their composition of flesh and blood.

All I can attest is that our spiritual resurrection bodies will be physical, not immaterial.
And I can attest to that with the certainty of the God's word in 1Co 15:35-44.

So that being the case, there is no Biblical basis for maintaining that there will be no physical bodies in heaven.

But since that is what you maintain,

1) then what happens to all those billions of physical resurrection bodies which cannot be in heaven, including Jesus' physical resurrection body (Lk 24:36-43)?

2) And even more puzzling, why does God bother to change those billions of perishable, dishonorable, weak and sinful natural physical bodies into imperishable, glorious and powerful spiritual physical bodies (1Co 15:35-44), if those transformed bodies are not going to be in heaven?

Is that consistent with the way God acts in redemption?

 

[mark54]

Scripture does not[/u] tell us what the material composition of our physical resurrection bodies are, only that they are physical, so I cannot attest either way regarding their composition of flesh and blood.A

I will leave this conversation here, for Paul plainly states flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
Yet you say you are unsure if the Hevenly bodies will contain flesh and blood
Exegesis that contradicts the plain word, either has to be wrong, or the plain word is wrong. For me it is not a hard choice to make

 

[Elin]

BTW
This is what those scriptures you mentioned state:

But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” [SUP]36 [/SUP]How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. [SUP]37 [/SUP]When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. [SUP]39 [/SUP]All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. [SUP]40 [/SUP]There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. [SUP]42 [/SUP]So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; [SUP]43 [/SUP]it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; [SUP]44 [/SUP]it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [SUP]45 [/SUP]So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[SUP][e][/SUP]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. [SUP]46 [/SUP]The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. [SUP]48 [/SUP]As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. [SUP]49 [/SUP]And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[SUP][f][/SUP] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[SUP][f][/SUP] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

The above is conclusive. Now we are born in the likeness of the earthly man. THEN we will bear the likeness of the man from Heaven. And the man from Heaven does not Have a Physical body.

Let's consider this in the light of Php 1:23:

"the Lord Jesus Christ. . .will transform our lowly (vile, sinful) bodies so that they will be like his glorious body," i.e., his resurrection body.

That is the "likeness" to which Paul is referring in 1Co 15:49.

In 1Co 15:35-54, Paul is contrasting the natural body with the spiritual body received from the two Adams (vv. 21-22).
The first Adam had a natural body of the dust of the ground, and that is the natural body we receive.
The last Adam, the man Jesus Christ, is the life-giving spirit who at the resurrection will give his redeemed people a spiritual body, physical, yet imperishable, without corruption and fit to live with God forever.

We received earthly, natural bodies in the likeness of the earthly man, Adam.
At the resurrection we will receive glorified spiritual bodies in the likeness of the resurrected spritual body of the man who was the second Adam.
The contrast is between the bodies of both Adams, it's not between the body of the first Adam, and the spirit of the last Adam.

Paul is clearly dealing with the physical natural sinful body recieved from the first Adam, and the physical spiritual body in the image of the second Adam's resurrected body received from Christ at our resurrection.

In the midst of his presentation on the two kinds of bodies received from the two Adam's, he does not stop in v 50 to disclaim physical bodies ("flesh and blood") in heaven.

Rather, in v. 50 he is continuing on with his contrast between the natural sinful "flesh and blood" (body) we received from the first Adam, and the spiritual physically transformed glorious (without sin) body we will receive from the second Adam, Christ, at the resurrection.

He is pointing out that the natural sinful "flesh and blood" body we received from the first Adam cannot inherit the kingdom of God, he is saying that God's redeemed people must have newly organized, imperishable bodies (vv. 35-44) like that of the second Adam, in order to live with him.

That is confirmed in Php 1:23, above.

Now unless you can give me plain scripture that states we will have 'physical bodies' in Heaven.

Not all of God's truth is stated in direct simple English sentences.
This stuff was written 2,000 years ago. . .in Greek, and will not always translate into simple and direct English sentences.
We have to get over that.

Regarding the plain Scriptures:

1) Lk 22:69; Eph 1:20; Col 3:1 - How is the Son of Man seated at the right hand of God without a body "to seat"?

2) Php 1:23 - It is its clear import, above.

3) 1Co 15:52-54 - And then there is the anomoly of those billions of physical resurrected glorified spiritual bodies like Christ's which, acccording to you, would have no destiny.

The language of the NT regarding Christ's ascension is everywhere predicated on a physical body.
Your meaning of "flesh and blood" in 1Co 15:50, as the anatomical composition of the human body rather than the natural sinful body, puts you in disagreement with all the other Scriptures which are predicated on glorified physical bodies in heaven.

 

[mark54]

Not all of God's truth is stated in direct simple English sentences.
.

But this is:

I declare to you brothers that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven
1Cor 15:50

Yet you say:


Scripture does not[/u] tell us what the material composition of our physical resurrection bodies are, only that they are physical, so I cannot attest either way regarding their composition of flesh and blood.

I guess for some its more fun at times to ignore the plain word, in favour of a little academic exercise

 

[Tintin]

Mark, we're not going to be floating spirits in Heaven. That's not a biblical belief but an idea more akin to Eastern mysticism.

 

[Elin]

Not all of God's truth is stated in direct simple English sentences.

But this is:

I declare to you brothers that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven
1Cor 15:50

Well, for that matter, so is: "There is no God" in the Psalms.

Yet you say:

Scripture does not tell us what the material composition of our physical resurrection bodies are, only that they are physical, so I cannot attest either way regarding their composition of flesh and blood.

I guess for some its more fun at times to ignore the plain word, in favour of a little academic exercise

I heartily recommend to ignore "the plain word" apart from its context.

I heartily recommend that the plain words, "There is no God" definitely be ignored apart from their context.

Likewise, with 1Co 15:50. The meaning of its "plain word" in the light of its 2,000-year-old context as well as other Scriptures, is not the same as the meaning of its "plain word" outside its context.

Context cannot be ignored, no matter how plain the words are.
"There is no God" couldn't be more plain.

Outside their context, words can mean exactly the opposite of what they mean in context.

And that is your case in 1Co 15:50, which is being taken out of context, to mean the opposite of what it means in context.