What A Vow Means to God

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

What a vow/promise/commitment means to God.

Numbers 30:[SUP]2 [/SUP]If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

The emboldened part of that verse means that God cannot help you with your vow. Your vow means you are telling everyone and God that you are going to do it.

Here is why God cannot help you with your vow.

Ecclesiates 5:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

Your vow means that is your work. God cannot help you keep your vow for you to say you had kept it when you did not. Your vow, promise, or commitment speaks of you and your willpower and your determination to finish a task.

This is why Jesus warned believers not to make any vows at all that are His to keep.

Matthew 5:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: [SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

We are the work of His hands, not ours.

This is what happens when a believer makes a vow and does not finish it and why Jesus said it was of evil.

Ecclesiastes 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin;

Paul warned believers about looking to the deeds of the law to make themselves "good" or to make them do "good deeds".

Galatians 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Such warnings were prophesied beforehand.

Psalm 50:[SUP]16 [/SUP]But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee. [SUP]18 [/SUP]When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son. [SUP]21 [/SUP]These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

So what is a believer in Jesus Christ to do with their vows?

Psalm 50:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:

Can't pay it? Can't ever really say you have finished it because you left it broad and open that it can never be finished? Like a promise to be a good husband? Like a promise to be a good father? And yet by that promise is the knowledge of sin where there will be moments when you were not a good husband nor a good father. What to do then?

Psalm 50: [SUP]15 [/SUP]And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

That means recognizing what is not in your power to do, making yourself a good husband and a good father by keeping a promise to make yourself one. Surrendering to God to call on Him for help means to recognize that you cannot keep it, and to free your from that promise & vow to rest in His promises in the New Covenent in believing He will help you to be a good husband and a good father by the grace of God.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

1 John 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew 18:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So how does a believer look to in becoming a good husband and a good father? By faith in the Son of God.

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...[SUP]9 [/SUP]And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; [SUP]10 [/SUP]That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Psalm 100:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Psalm 118:[SUP]8 [/SUP]It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Warning: The CEV Bible completely undermines the truth in His words and have changed the message as if it is okay for a believer to make promises.

Truly, since boasting in this way below of any plans to do tomorrow is of evil, what does that say about promises of what you are declaring to man and to God of what you are going to do tomorrow and to finish in this lifetime?

James 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [SUP]15[/SUP]For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

That is why the just shall live by faith in the Son of God and all of His promises to us so we can rest in Him in living the christian life as the Good Shepherd He is in helping us to follow Him as we rest in Him for eternal life as the Saviour He is. Amen.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

Enow, thank you for this thread:] When i read the title i just had to read it and to say what i have to say. Now I have said to god the things i am going to do for him. I want to be a shepard to collect and protect his flock until the true shepard returns and I will make more shepards out of that flock and they will collect and protect his flock and the cycle will continue until the true shepard reutruns. I have said to him i want to be a beacon of light unto a world of darkness. I have said I want to be just like in him every way possible, to see ppl and the world as he does to care and love for ppl as he does, to have my eye's burn for his ppl's prtection and love for them just as his burn. These are just a few of the promises i made to him, I have made many wonderful promises to him like these, all under the influece of the holy spirit and in all of them my love for him was pouring out of my heart. I intend to keep every single one of these many promises but i am also no fool, i know i cannot keep a single one of these on my own power. So thats why I am completely relying on him to mold me and make to where he and i will shake this world awake and turn it upside down( Also my promises to him) I belive he put these desires in my heart and i pray many others will be able to say such thngs and do them for him

nathan3 · Feb 12, 2013

Form what I can remember Vow's made to God are a serious matter. That is why I stay away from promising God anything. Because I know i fall short and mess up.

I don't want to assure someone that I will definitely do, give, or arrange something. like I will never sin again.

I can't recall at the scriptures. but God takes it seriously .He always keeps Him promises , He expects us to keep ours.

I rather ask God for strength to over come. But never promise something I know I'm too week to keep my word on. I think it is a sin to brake a vow made to God.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

nathan3 said:

But thats just the thing nathan, we don't have to be strong enough because it not our job to be strong. The kind of people god is looking for is people with radical faith, of course we mustn't just spout of random promises. Only promises from the heart and out of love, The devil would have you be afraid to make any promises at all for fear you could not keep them. But thats just a lie, if we aren't able to keep them right now we just have to pray ask and rely on god to mold us to where we can.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

We are to be teaching believers in how to be His disciple and leading by example by following Him by faith in Him to help us continue in His words as His disciple. That means pointing believers to the Good Shepherd now in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

All that is required from you in following Him and in serving Him is to believe God will do His work.

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I do not believe you were doing this under the influence of the Holy Spirit but under the influence of your zeal for God.

Romans 10:[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Zeal for God has a way of deafening us to the Word of God. Our inspired spirit can be mistaken for the Holy Spirit which is not the same.

But that is the point of the OP. God cannot help you keep those promises. By making those promises in according to His words, you are saying YOU are going to do it.

2 Timothy 3:1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Faith in Him requires us to show that faith as standing apart from the law that He will enable you to serve Him because of that New Covenant to us.

Since the just shall live by faith in living the christian life, then in that same faith in the Son of God, we are to serve Him.

Let us consider what Jesus has testified without asking for any promises from His disciples in serving Him.

Matthew 10:[SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Do you believe Him or not? If you believe Him, then you can see why no promises from you is going to be how you are serving Him.

Again, Paul demotes any confidence in believer's ability to serve Him because it is God that is ministering all along.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? [SUP]6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So even in ministry, you have to be seen as set free from the religious rudiments in the world in serving Him so that the religious people will see their rest in Him not just for their personal lives but in ministery as well in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ which is by faith in the Son of God and all His promises to us.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: [SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world....[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatians 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If it is not we who live, but Christ who lives in us, then His promises are sufficient in following Him and serving Him so that there is no needing any promises from us so we can live by that faith in the Son of God in following Him & in serving Him.

In the eyes of the religious people of the world and even in the eyes of the Jews, your promises testify by His words that you are not relying on Him at all in enabling you to serve Him, but it is by you keeping your promises to Him is how you are serving Him. So it is either faith in Him & His promises or confidence in your flesh in keeping your promises. It cannot be both. In the eyes of the religious people of the world, faith in His work is void, because your promises speaks of your work.

So if you want your faith in Him & His work to shine which would be considered foolishness in the eyes of the world, then you have to go before that throne of grace for forgiveness, to be set free, and for help to be a better witness of Him and His promises to us by only living by faith in the Son of God in how we are in service to Him as well as in following Him.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

nathan3 said:

By that vow is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Scriptural references are in the OP for those reading your posts that may want to know them.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.....[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

One can find strength by believing Him.

At one time, I had wondered why Jesus said this below.

John 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

By saying that He has overcome the world is to bring us comfort that we shall believe He will overcome whatever fiery trial that we are going through. So believers should not be offended by thinking in sarcasm, "Well..yeah.. He is the Son of God. He can do anything. We can't do it." But that is truth, but an unapplied truth as we are to believe Him that He that dwells within us, shall ovecome any trial we may find ourselves going through in this valley of death so we need not fear.

It is, and it is a unrepentant sin when believers think they can use God's grace to keep on trying to keep those promises when in reality, they are not being promise keepers, but promise breakers.

Better to acknowledge what they cannot do, repent by asking Jesus to forgive and set them free from those promises, and rest in Him and His promises to us in according to the New Covenant that He will do it for the reason why the just shall live by faith in following Him and in serving Him as everything is His work of Whom we shall give all the glory to in Heaven.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

You say i was not the influence of the holy spirit but Zeal for god, So then lets say you are right about that. But then there is the fact I made these promises as my love for him overflowed out of my heart and his heart and my heart cried out for each other. I know it is not required of me, yet i want to do this because i love him and i want to be just like him. No other evidence is required for me to believe that when our hearts connected his desires became my desires, You say i do this for myself and say i do it relying on my own power. But how can a human become a mirror image of the beloved Jesus on his own power? And How man make such promises and have them dwell in his heart if not these things blended with the fathers love? If These were promises I made with zeal for god and if these promises were not his desires to then wouldn't they have disappeared long ago? And if they are not of god why do they fill me with such love everytime i speak to him about it? If we can do all things though christ who is to say I may not do all of this for him and becoe just like him? Isn't there a wise saying that says if the world says you can't faith will tell you that you can?

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

Enow said:

By that vow is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Scriptural references are in the OP for those reading your posts that may want to know them.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.....[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

One can find strength by believing Him.

At one time, I had wondered why Jesus said this below.

John 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

By saying that He has overcome the world is to bring us comfort that we shall believe He will overcome whatever fiery trial that we are going through. So believers should not be offended by thinking in sarcasm, "Well..yeah.. He is the Son of God. He can do anything. We can't do it." But that is truth, but an unapplied truth as we are to believe Him that He that dwells within us, shall ovecome any trial we may find ourselves going through in this valley of death so we need not fear.

It is, and it is a unrepentant sin when believers think they can use God's grace to keep on trying to keep those promises when in reality, they are not being promise keepers, but promise breakers.

Better to acknowledge what they cannot do, repent by asking Jesus to forgive and set them free from those promises, and rest in Him and His promises to us in according to the New Covenant that He will do it for the reason why the just shall live by faith in following Him and in serving Him as everything is His work of Whom we shall give all the glory to in Heaven.

You shouldn't tell people what they cannot do in christ, anything is possible through christ. Its belief like this that makes it where people cannot do all things through christ.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

Brother, I intreat thee to take pause and consider. Do not Catholics love God and want to show their love for God by doing the works of catholicism? Do they show how much they love Him and how sorry they are for their sins by doing penance?

But what would you say to them? That they are labouring in unbelief in trying to earn that forgiveness? That they are not believing His promise below?

1 John 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So why not deny yourself since no one should make promises to God of what God has already covered in His Covenant?

Do you believe Him that He will help you to follow Him? Do you believe in His promises? Do you know that your love for God is not the result pof your work, but His work?

1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

So instead of making promises that you have already acknowledged that you cannot keep, why not recognize what God has done and walk humbly with thy God by saying... Thank you, Jesus.

Micah 6:8He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

No. Not what I say. His words says that. That is what God says. Not what I say. Reread the scriptures in the OP again.

I have come across honest former christians that have tried to follow Him religiously and could not do it. They had considered christianity as another religion and that "it" doesn't work. They have disappeared, even though they are still His.

You are honest to say that you cannot do it under your own power, but still failing to see by His words what living by keeping those promises mean.... that is your power.. that is the work of your hands.. not His.

We can do all things through Him that strengthens us because He promised us... which is why we live by faith in Him.

Explain how anyone can have the form of godliness but deny the power thereof? You can find muslims keeping promises: Jews keeping promises... and christian keeping promises... but yet not really keeping those promises, but yet they are trying.

There is no trying with God. You either do it or you rest in Him that Jesus Christ will do it.

Are you under grace of under the deeds of the law? Are you living by faith in Him or living by keeping promises to Him?

Nowhere has Christ ever asked a vow or a promise from His followers. He simply asked them to believe Him and follow Him by believing in Him. That is how we get to know Him & the power of His resurrection not having any righteousness which is of the law, but by the righteousness of faith in Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,...

Are His promises enough? Then ask Him to set you free from yours and follow Him by faith thus testifying of your faith in Him and not what man can do by the deeds of the law.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

So a brother can get circumcised because he can do all things through Christ? A brother can become all things like a hooker or a living a gay lifestyle to win some to Christ?

Of course not.

You need to look at His words. Jesus told you NOT to do it in Matthew 5:33-37 and the reason why is in verse 36 BECAUSE you cannot make one hair white or black... you cannot do God's work in you.

Jesus validates what the law is and what a vow or an oath means: that it is the work of your hands... not His.

We are to be witnesses of the Son, and not of ourselves. That means living by faith in the Son of God testifies of His workmanship in our lives and not our own.

To serve Him by those promises is to say you are doing this work by your hands, by your power.. and faith in Him is made void and of none effect.

His disciples follow Him by continuing in His words.... and any believer following Him or serving Him by keeping a promise or a commitment are not continuing in His words in doing so for we are to follow Him by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

Romans 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: [SUP]15 [/SUP]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hebrews 11:[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

Enow said:

(But what would you say to them? That they are labouring in unbelief in trying to earn that forgiveness? That they are not believing His promise below?) I said nothing about earning forgiveness and no i would not say they are laboring in unbeleif. You cannot earn his grace or forgiveness this is a gift. I am not under the law but under grace and love. These promises are more than just things I have vowed to do, They are my hearts greatest desires. I do not do this to earn anything neither from him or anyone else, I do this because my heart told me so. I do not even want anything in return for all of this, I want to do this for him because this is bigger than me and you. This is about saving his precious sheep. The lord has spoken through me before and as i said before when our hearts connected his desires became my desires. This promises are wonderful gifts from him, I ask him sometimes why am i so lucky enough to be able to do all of this and be all that i know one day i will be. He only answers (Because I chose you) I one time a long time ago did have doubts about this and i said to god this: Lord i only ask for these things and I only want to do all of this because of my great love for you. I heard him loud and clear: That is the very reason i am giving you these things. Don't you see? This is more than a promise, its not about me or you, its about ( them) His children.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

Enow said:

So a brother can get circumcised because he can do all things through Christ? A brother can become all things like a hooker or a living a gay lifestyle to win some to Christ?

Of course not.

You need to look at His words. Jesus told you NOT to do it in Matthew 5:33-37 and the reason why is in verse 36 BECAUSE you cannot make one hair white or black... you cannot do God's work in you.

Jesus validates what the law is and what a vow or an oath means: that it is the work of your hands... not His.

We are to be witnesses of the Son, and not of ourselves. That means living by faith in the Son of God testifies of His workmanship in our lives and not our own.

To serve Him by those promises is to say you are doing this work by your hands, by your power.. and faith in Him is made void and of none effect.

His disciples follow Him by continuing in His words.... and any believer following Him or serving Him by keeping a promise or a commitment are not continuing in His words in doing so for we are to follow Him by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

Romans 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: [SUP]15 [/SUP]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hebrews 11:[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(So a brother can get circumcised because he can do all things through Christ? A brother can become all things like a hooker or a living a gay lifestyle to win some to Christ?)Please do not twist my words, you know that is not what i meant

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

The forgiveness topic was introduced as an example about believing Him.

And why would you not say that they are labouring in unbelief if they are seeking to earn that forgiveness by penance as of confessing their sins to Him isn't enough?

But I believe you were not clear in your statement because you had posted this in following.

I think we are on the same page about the topic of forgiveness. Hopefully, He shall enable you to believe Him in regards to the topic we are discussing about how we are to follow Him and to serve Him which is by faith.

You had placed yourself under the law by making those promises to Him. That is the point. God's law about making those promises and its consequences does not become void: faith in Him & His promises does become void as long as you live your christian life and your service to Him by keeping those promises.

James 5:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Then what need of a promise from you when your heart is telling you so?

Which shows His workmanship in you: your heart in wanting to serve Him... or your promise which speaks of your work in your willing to serve Him?

Then the New Covenant made by Him does not need any promises from us. All that is required from us is to believe Him.

It is only a gift from Him when they are His promises: not yours. Your promises declare your love and by that love, your gift to God.

Let's look at His words about being chosen.

John 15:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Now what did Jesus say here that would be included in whatsoever He commands of us?

Matthew 5:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Brother, in our walk with the Lord, His chosen that are the elect, will be pruned from time to time so that we may bear more fruit.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Your testimony needs pruning, brother, because from your post #2 of this thread, it was more about you & your love for God & your promises of what you desire to do and to accomplish in others than it was about your faith in Him & His promises to you of what He has been doing through you and to those you minister towards. All I see is your work.

So by His grace and by His help, I understand why He spoke against making promises that are His to keep because we are His workmanship because of the New Covenant to us. Dare we tack on our filthy rags of righteousness on top of His?

Isaiah 64:[SUP]6 [/SUP]But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If you want others to see His work in you and in the lives you minister, then you can only bear witness of your faith in Him & His promises to us... and not your work by the keeping of your promises which is nothing more than a boast in the flesh.

mark54 · Feb 12, 2013

I believe no one should take lightly a promise made to God, for God will hold you to it. And if you do not do what you promised God you would do, you will find no rest or peace until you do what you promised Him you would do

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

Okay I see your point in the swearing and promising thing, however i am still going to do do all i said i would and be amirror image of him- unless his will shows me otherwise. But I do not see myself as unlean anymore, I see myself as a small child in the arms of the loving father.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

Again, I am referring to other examples in order for you to see how you are misapplying His words to justify making those promises as if He will help you keep them when you are ignoring His warning about not making any promises that are His to keep.

Matthew 5:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: [SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Matthew 12:[SUP]34 [/SUP]O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. [SUP]35 [/SUP]A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 15:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: [SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.....[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [SUP]20 [/SUP]These are the things which defile a man:

John 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

John 3:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.

Until you stop speaking of your promises and instead speak of your faith in the Son of God and all of His promises to us that is testifying to His workmanship in your life and in the lives of others, the world will only see a religious man: a "promise keeper".

Even though you are admitting that you can't do it by the flesh, and yet somehow overlooking the fact that trying to keep those promises means that it is of the flesh... and yet making promises to God risks condemnation.

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 10:[SUP]3[/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Romans 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear of God before their eyes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

By placing yourself under the law by your promises, you have not submitted to the righteousness of God as apart from the law which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

I noticed that you have nothing to say about His words as if they do not apply when clearly He is speaking against your promises so that your faith may shine in a world where religious men can identify with making promises & commitments to "God" & to do good.

Is it so hard, brother, to be set free from your promises in resting in Him and His promises that you will serve Him?

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

I do not respond to the scripture you post because even though you are trying to help its very easy to pick apart scripture to fit ones own beliefs. I am not saying this is what you are doing but the devil will often times use other christians to hurt others, And i am not going to post scripture to prove my point because i do not feel qualified to use his word yet. But If these things i desire are not from god as you say then i fail to understand why god continues to bring me closer to him and continues to show me more of his heart. My faith,and my desires and prayers are all Blended with love. I do not see it as my love for him and his love for me, But i call it our love. My faith is not based on this love- its completely enveloped by it. Not a single Brick of this house that is my faith is not made from our love.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

mark54 said:

And when that promise is broken, then there is no point in trying to keep that which one has failed to do already.

Better to ask for forgiveness and be set free to rest in Him and His promises than to keep labouring in the vanity of that bondage.

Enow · Feb 12, 2013

Blain said:

Again, you are testifying of yourself and what you are going to do, but yet you had said earlier that it is not about you or me as this is bigger than us altogether. It is about trusting Him at His word that He will do it, and we show that trust when we testify of our faith in Jesus Christ that He will do it.

I used to live the christian life by doing the best I can in keeping my commitment to Him and failing no matter how many times. I would ask Jesus for help, He would set me on my feet again, and then to show my appreciation and my love for Him, I go right back to doing the best I can in keeping my commitment to follow Him until He enabled me to one day recognize that He had wanted me to rely on Him all the time and not by doing the best I can in keeping my commitment to follow Him.

When I surrender.. really surrender as we did when you & I recognized that we could not save ourselves, then in that same faith & belief, He wants us to surrender to Him that He will help us to follow Him and to serve Him by faith in the Son of God.

So yes... we are in the arms of the loving Father, but sometimes believers are opposing themselves by words and works that deny being in the care and arms of that loving Father. God is waiting for those religious believers to recognize how much they need Him and why having that faith in Him and His promises means we believe Him and to believe Him means by not resorting to our own powers by making promises that are His to keep.

Do we engage in works of salvation by promising Him to save ourselves? No. Then neither should we engage in promises of making ourselves good nor engaging in promises of serving Him to do good when we could not save ourselves in the first place.

For the world to see our faith in Him as our Good Shepherd as well as our Saviour, the just can only live by faith and not by the deeds of the law like keeping promises to do so.

So may the words of our mouths and the meditation of our hearts be made acceptable by Him in His sight by testifying of our faith in the Son of God and not of ourselves by the vanity of promises that are really His to keep.

Psalm 19:[SUP]7 [/SUP]The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. [SUP]10 [/SUP]More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

Blain · Feb 12, 2013

I see myself as clean yes, but only because of him. That is why i can run into his arms unafraid and no guilt, i admit i mess up but my love for him and his love for me is too great to tear apart. And yes perhaps i did speak of myself when i said i see myself as clean, am i not allowed to talk about myself? This does not waver the fact that this is bigger than you and me, And i am under no bondage either. I believe that not only did god put these desires in my heart but i believe as i said these things to him it was him speaking through me. Him telling me what i am going to do for him and his children, And him telling me just how deep our relationship is going to go, if not deeper. I want to dive into his heart and continue to go deeper and deeper until i am completely drunk with him and his love. If it were my choice i would go and be with him now, but he told me to be strong for him so i have to continue on for him. If he asks himself when he looks down on the earth for a person of faith, for a person who truly seeks his heart, a person who truly loves hims with body mind and soul- I am this person and i am going to make sure there are many more who love him and seek him to the extent i do.

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