When does the rapture occur?
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Not that Gary needs my help but he is right, many of you are completely wrong about what the Tribulation is and who is behind it. Many of you think the Tribulation is God's Wrath aimed at the wicked. This view is 180 degrees from the truth. God's Wrath comes AFTER the Tribulation and is aimed at the wicked. The Tribulation, on the other hand, is the wicked (influenced by Satan) persecuting and killing God's people, primarily the Jews in Israel, and the Christians in the Muslim controlled parts of the earth. Consider the following:
When does the Great Tribulation start?
Matthew 24:15
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
ANSWER: It starts when the Abomination of Desolation is seen. This is the beginning point.
Where does the Great Tribulation take place?
Mark 13:14
[ The Great Tribulation ] “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
Daniel 11:31
And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Daniel 12:1
“At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time...
ANSWER: It takes place in Judea (Israel). Daniel goes on to further detail who is involved.
Dan 11: [SUP]32 [/SUP]Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
So who is being attacked? The People who know their God, not the wicked, the wicked are doing the attacking.
What part of the world is all of this taking place?
Dan 11: [SUP]41 [/SUP]He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. [SUP]42 [/SUP]He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. [SUP]43 [/SUP]He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.
Ezek 38: ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.
ANSWER: It's all in and around Israel. This is where the Great Tribulation will take place. Jews and Christians alike will be slaughtered in big numbers all over this part of the earth, which is and was the known world to John. This is being done by the Final Islamic Caliphate, the very one the Muslims believe in and support. Their Quran calls for it and many of their extremists feel it is their destiny to bring about this apocalyptic vision.
When all hope appears lost, then the LORD returns with wrath and vengeance as we are taught everywhere.
Mat 24: [SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days... [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
2 Thes 1: it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Prophesy is not about the United States and the West. It is Israel-centric. It is all about the multi-millennial old conflict between Muslims and Israel, between God and Satan, between worship of True God and worship of the Mother of all Harlots (ISLAM).
We are all watching it unfold ever more rapidly with all the players coming to the chess board.
When does the Great Tribulation start?
Matthew 24:15
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
ANSWER: It starts when the Abomination of Desolation is seen. This is the beginning point.
Where does the Great Tribulation take place?
Mark 13:14
[ The Great Tribulation ] “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
Daniel 11:31
And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Daniel 12:1
“At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time...
ANSWER: It takes place in Judea (Israel). Daniel goes on to further detail who is involved.
Dan 11: [SUP]32 [/SUP]Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
So who is being attacked? The People who know their God, not the wicked, the wicked are doing the attacking.
What part of the world is all of this taking place?
Dan 11: [SUP]41 [/SUP]He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. [SUP]42 [/SUP]He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. [SUP]43 [/SUP]He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.
Ezek 38: ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.
ANSWER: It's all in and around Israel. This is where the Great Tribulation will take place. Jews and Christians alike will be slaughtered in big numbers all over this part of the earth, which is and was the known world to John. This is being done by the Final Islamic Caliphate, the very one the Muslims believe in and support. Their Quran calls for it and many of their extremists feel it is their destiny to bring about this apocalyptic vision.
When all hope appears lost, then the LORD returns with wrath and vengeance as we are taught everywhere.
Mat 24: [SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days... [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
2 Thes 1: it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Prophesy is not about the United States and the West. It is Israel-centric. It is all about the multi-millennial old conflict between Muslims and Israel, between God and Satan, between worship of True God and worship of the Mother of all Harlots (ISLAM).
We are all watching it unfold ever more rapidly with all the players coming to the chess board.
Popeye, my dear friend.
You've been watching too many Tim LaHaye movies or seen too much John Hagee on TV. There will be no AC ruling the whole planet. There is no mark that the whole planet must take or be killed. We've been over this before. The location of the Great Tribulation is spelled out in many places such as Ezek 38-39 and Dan 11 and in Joel and Mat 24 and in Zech 13-14 and many other places. The "EARTH" as mentioned in Revelation 13 is NOT THE ENTIRE PLANET. It is the known EARTH to John. The "BEAST" is the "NORTHERN ISLAMIC" Alliance with the 10 horns being directed by the King of the North. It is the BEAST of the SEA which is the area of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. This is the Beast which was wounded (Ottoman Empire) but lives.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth - These are Muslims.
telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast - These are Muslims
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads - These are Muslims
The fate of those who follow ISLAM and do the work of the BEAST is told in Rev 14:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” - Sadly, this is the fate of most Muslims.
Their religion - ISLAM - is the Mother of all HARLOTS (False Religions) and God will throw it down. All false religions, starting with Islam, will be thrown down.
Micah 1:3
For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place; He will come down And tread on the high places of the earth.
You've been watching too many Tim LaHaye movies or seen too much John Hagee on TV. There will be no AC ruling the whole planet. There is no mark that the whole planet must take or be killed. We've been over this before. The location of the Great Tribulation is spelled out in many places such as Ezek 38-39 and Dan 11 and in Joel and Mat 24 and in Zech 13-14 and many other places. The "EARTH" as mentioned in Revelation 13 is NOT THE ENTIRE PLANET. It is the known EARTH to John. The "BEAST" is the "NORTHERN ISLAMIC" Alliance with the 10 horns being directed by the King of the North. It is the BEAST of the SEA which is the area of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. This is the Beast which was wounded (Ottoman Empire) but lives.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth - These are Muslims.
telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast - These are Muslims
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads - These are Muslims
The fate of those who follow ISLAM and do the work of the BEAST is told in Rev 14:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” - Sadly, this is the fate of most Muslims.
Their religion - ISLAM - is the Mother of all HARLOTS (False Religions) and God will throw it down. All false religions, starting with Islam, will be thrown down.
Micah 1:3
For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place; He will come down And tread on the high places of the earth.
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Ahwatukee,
While I don't fully subscribe to that teaching; I do see how the Bible could bring someone to that understanding.
Within the body there is room for a great deal of difference in interpretation. I am confident that much of what I believe will be corrected when Jesus calls me to Himself. I think we go too far when we call everything we don't fully agree with 'false teaching'; unless we are persuaded of our own infallibility--- and that seems more dangerous than this 'false teaching'
JMO
Marc
While I don't fully subscribe to that teaching; I do see how the Bible could bring someone to that understanding.
Within the body there is room for a great deal of difference in interpretation. I am confident that much of what I believe will be corrected when Jesus calls me to Himself. I think we go too far when we call everything we don't fully agree with 'false teaching'; unless we are persuaded of our own infallibility--- and that seems more dangerous than this 'false teaching'
JMO
Marc
Muslim Views Of The Apocalypse
Religion News Service | By Daniel Burke
Posted: 02/07/2013 8:42 am EST Updated: 02/07/2013 8:44 am EST
(RNS) Muslim and Christian views of the Apocalypse are remarkably similar, albeit with a different ending. As in the Bible's Book of Revelation, Islamic tradition speaks of signs -- unnatural disasters, wars and moral decay -- that will portend the Last Days. And like Christians, many Muslims believe that Jesus, whom they call Isa, will return to defeat the Antichrist.
Contemporary Muslim apocalyptists have even borrowed from their Christian counterparts, such as Hal Lindsay, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to discern the dates of the Antichrist's arrival, said David Cook, an expert on Islamic eschatology and associate professor at Rice University.
"There are Muslim apocalyptic readings of the book of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation," says Cook. "The only difference is the 'good guys' are Muslims, not Christians."
The Muslim Jesus destroys the cross and the swine, symbols of Christian innovations, and converts Christians to Islam, said Abdulaziz Sachedina, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of Virginia. Whether he does so violently or not is a matter of debate.
In Islamic tradition, Jesus is joined by a figure named the Mahdi, who helps subdue Satan and rid the world of corruption and injustice.
Some Muslims don't like the idea of Jesus playing the messianic hero, and have thus assigned a larger role to the Mahdi, said Cook. That belief is strong among Shiites, particularly the "Twelvers" in Iran, where President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has often spoke of the Mahdi's return.
Twelvers believe that the Mahdi is the 12th imam -- hence their name -- a descendant of Prophet Muhammad who has been hidden since the 9th century.
In addition to Iran, faith in the Mahdi's imminent arrival is widespread in Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey and Tunisia, according to a 2012 Pew Research center poll.
Religion News Service | By Daniel Burke
Posted: 02/07/2013 8:42 am EST Updated: 02/07/2013 8:44 am EST
(RNS) Muslim and Christian views of the Apocalypse are remarkably similar, albeit with a different ending. As in the Bible's Book of Revelation, Islamic tradition speaks of signs -- unnatural disasters, wars and moral decay -- that will portend the Last Days. And like Christians, many Muslims believe that Jesus, whom they call Isa, will return to defeat the Antichrist.
Contemporary Muslim apocalyptists have even borrowed from their Christian counterparts, such as Hal Lindsay, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to discern the dates of the Antichrist's arrival, said David Cook, an expert on Islamic eschatology and associate professor at Rice University.
"There are Muslim apocalyptic readings of the book of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation," says Cook. "The only difference is the 'good guys' are Muslims, not Christians."
The Muslim Jesus destroys the cross and the swine, symbols of Christian innovations, and converts Christians to Islam, said Abdulaziz Sachedina, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of Virginia. Whether he does so violently or not is a matter of debate.
In Islamic tradition, Jesus is joined by a figure named the Mahdi, who helps subdue Satan and rid the world of corruption and injustice.
Some Muslims don't like the idea of Jesus playing the messianic hero, and have thus assigned a larger role to the Mahdi, said Cook. That belief is strong among Shiites, particularly the "Twelvers" in Iran, where President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has often spoke of the Mahdi's return.
Twelvers believe that the Mahdi is the 12th imam -- hence their name -- a descendant of Prophet Muhammad who has been hidden since the 9th century.
In addition to Iran, faith in the Mahdi's imminent arrival is widespread in Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey and Tunisia, according to a 2012 Pew Research center poll.
There are two keys to unlocking the mysteries of Revelation. They are game changers and unlocking these clues will change everything about how the end times scenario is understood. For those who do not understand these two important things, you cannot and will not understand.
1) Revelation was written by John in Apocalyptic literary style. John used primarily OT symbols which his audience (the 7 churches of Asia Minor) would understand but that the Romans would not understand. This was done to protect them, and him in the event that his message was found. Examples of these symbols are: Harlot = False Religion; Beast = Empire; Dragon = Satan; Sea = lost people; Horns = Leaders; etc.
2) That the identity of Mystery Babylon is ISLAM. Mystery Babylon is the Mother of all False Religions. It is the biggest religion in the world with roots back to at least Babylon- hence the name. Islam was a mystery to John as Islam didn't begin for another 500+ years after his death. But it should be no mystery to any Christian today.
I hope this helps some of you.
1) Revelation was written by John in Apocalyptic literary style. John used primarily OT symbols which his audience (the 7 churches of Asia Minor) would understand but that the Romans would not understand. This was done to protect them, and him in the event that his message was found. Examples of these symbols are: Harlot = False Religion; Beast = Empire; Dragon = Satan; Sea = lost people; Horns = Leaders; etc.
2) That the identity of Mystery Babylon is ISLAM. Mystery Babylon is the Mother of all False Religions. It is the biggest religion in the world with roots back to at least Babylon- hence the name. Islam was a mystery to John as Islam didn't begin for another 500+ years after his death. But it should be no mystery to any Christian today.
I hope this helps some of you.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.
Which religion is waging war with the saints?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Notice that only those on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life will worship the Beast. And whose names are not written?
And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Those who marvel and follow the Beast and false Harlot religion of the Beast. Again, only those not in the Book of Life will marvel and follow the Beast.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast
Who are deceived? Those who are followers of the Harlot, Mystery Babylon. For instance, being a Catholic does not mean you are deceived about who God is. Being a follow of Allah, instead of God and thinking God didn't have a Son is real deception.
"Dwell on the earth" does not mean the entire planet. Just about everyone gets this wrong. It is the known world of John's day that he is discussing.
Case in point. In Daniel 8, Daniel describes Alexander the Great's conquest of Persia. Notice his use of words - "across the surface of the whole earth?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
We know from history that Alexander did not go across the entire planet (whole earth). Instead, he crossed the ancient known earth of his day. Fast forward 400 years or so to John and nothing much as changed as far as the understanding of the known world. Thus John uses the same term "earth" to describe his known earth.
Today, the Muslim world has taken over pretty much all of the known world to John. Revelation was not written specifically to us, it was written to the 7 churches in Turkey of John's day. The below map, with the exception of some areas west of Rome, was pretty much the world known to John.
This has to be understood. The entire Bible deals with this part of the world, particularly Israel and the hostile nations around her that affect her. The Bible does not deal with North and South America, Australia and places remote from the above map. Obviously these unmentioned areas can and will be effected but we don't know to what degree.
When God says this from Rev 18:
“Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
He is telling His people to get out of the Muslim controlled areas least they take part in his judgment. They cannot leave the planet, right? Once people start to understand that the really heavy prophesy stuff is regional (in terms of what we are told) we start to see just how close things are coming to being fulfilled.
Which religion is waging war with the saints?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Notice that only those on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life will worship the Beast. And whose names are not written?
And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Those who marvel and follow the Beast and false Harlot religion of the Beast. Again, only those not in the Book of Life will marvel and follow the Beast.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast
Who are deceived? Those who are followers of the Harlot, Mystery Babylon. For instance, being a Catholic does not mean you are deceived about who God is. Being a follow of Allah, instead of God and thinking God didn't have a Son is real deception.
"Dwell on the earth" does not mean the entire planet. Just about everyone gets this wrong. It is the known world of John's day that he is discussing.
Case in point. In Daniel 8, Daniel describes Alexander the Great's conquest of Persia. Notice his use of words - "across the surface of the whole earth?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
We know from history that Alexander did not go across the entire planet (whole earth). Instead, he crossed the ancient known earth of his day. Fast forward 400 years or so to John and nothing much as changed as far as the understanding of the known world. Thus John uses the same term "earth" to describe his known earth.
Today, the Muslim world has taken over pretty much all of the known world to John. Revelation was not written specifically to us, it was written to the 7 churches in Turkey of John's day. The below map, with the exception of some areas west of Rome, was pretty much the world known to John.
This has to be understood. The entire Bible deals with this part of the world, particularly Israel and the hostile nations around her that affect her. The Bible does not deal with North and South America, Australia and places remote from the above map. Obviously these unmentioned areas can and will be effected but we don't know to what degree.
When God says this from Rev 18:
“Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
He is telling His people to get out of the Muslim controlled areas least they take part in his judgment. They cannot leave the planet, right? Once people start to understand that the really heavy prophesy stuff is regional (in terms of what we are told) we start to see just how close things are coming to being fulfilled.
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I would have to respectfully disagree on this and the reason for this is as follows:
"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." (Rev.1:19)
None of Revelation is written with John's flavor or by his own accord or imagination. He was not referring back to the OT regarding anything he wrote, but he did what the Lord said, and that was to write down what had seen, what is now and what will take place later. The reason that John used the symbolism of Beast, Empire, Dragon, Sea, Horns, etc., is because that is how God presented the visions to him and therefore, John wrote down exactly what he saw in those visions.
* The seven heads you saw are seven hills upon which the woman sits
* The woman you saw is that great "city" that rules over the kings of the earth.
So, the woman, Mystery Babylon, is a city that ruled over the kings of the earth and sits on seven hills. Islam is not a city and at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel, Rome was that city that was ruling over the kings of the earth and was literally built on and is famous for, her seven hills. That being said, Islam does not fit any of the criteria describing the woman.
It is stated that the kings of the earth will commit adultery with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. This is of course speaking of spiritual adultery, which figuratively means, "to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower". The kings of the earth and its inhabitants will be partaking with the woman in her pagan beliefs and practices and even more so when she becomes that last day religious system under the beast with the one of the future pope's playing the part of the false prophet. Islam is not proclaiming to be in Christ, but Rome with her pagan system is proclaiming to be the true church of Christ, while at the same time being the mother of all paganism, beginning with that obelisk that sits out in St.Peter's square, Mary worship, mother and son worship, the Eucharist, Sacraments, Purgatory, and so much more.
"The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:
She was glittering with gold:
Rome with her Mystery Babylon pagan system is the woman who is in view as the woman who rides the beast, the mother of all prostitutes, for she meets all of the criteria found in Revelation. For everything about her religious system is opposed to the truth of God's word. She is Paganism wearing Christian clothing and that is all.
"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." (Rev.1:19)
None of Revelation is written with John's flavor or by his own accord or imagination. He was not referring back to the OT regarding anything he wrote, but he did what the Lord said, and that was to write down what had seen, what is now and what will take place later. The reason that John used the symbolism of Beast, Empire, Dragon, Sea, Horns, etc., is because that is how God presented the visions to him and therefore, John wrote down exactly what he saw in those visions.
* The seven heads you saw are seven hills upon which the woman sits
* The woman you saw is that great "city" that rules over the kings of the earth.
So, the woman, Mystery Babylon, is a city that ruled over the kings of the earth and sits on seven hills. Islam is not a city and at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel, Rome was that city that was ruling over the kings of the earth and was literally built on and is famous for, her seven hills. That being said, Islam does not fit any of the criteria describing the woman.
It is stated that the kings of the earth will commit adultery with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. This is of course speaking of spiritual adultery, which figuratively means, "to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower". The kings of the earth and its inhabitants will be partaking with the woman in her pagan beliefs and practices and even more so when she becomes that last day religious system under the beast with the one of the future pope's playing the part of the false prophet. Islam is not proclaiming to be in Christ, but Rome with her pagan system is proclaiming to be the true church of Christ, while at the same time being the mother of all paganism, beginning with that obelisk that sits out in St.Peter's square, Mary worship, mother and son worship, the Eucharist, Sacraments, Purgatory, and so much more.
"The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:
She was glittering with gold:
Rome with her Mystery Babylon pagan system is the woman who is in view as the woman who rides the beast, the mother of all prostitutes, for she meets all of the criteria found in Revelation. For everything about her religious system is opposed to the truth of God's word. She is Paganism wearing Christian clothing and that is all.
P
What would help would be to include heavens perspective
Your guide for understanding is "trib centered".
Heaven is bride /groom centered.
This truth reveals why we see the emphasis on the"beaten bride" instead of heavens desire to GATHER the bride.
Until this perspective is adopted there Will be over emphasis on the trib and blatant disregard for the very purpose of the GT
Your guide for understanding is "trib centered".
Heaven is bride /groom centered.
This truth reveals why we see the emphasis on the"beaten bride" instead of heavens desire to GATHER the bride.
Until this perspective is adopted there Will be over emphasis on the trib and blatant disregard for the very purpose of the GT
Do you still not know what the purpose of the GT is?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I will bring the one–third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”
ANSWER: It is to purify and bring His people back to Him.
Do you know where the GT takes place?
Dan 12: And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered...
Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
ANSWER: It takes place in Israel.
The Church has a different, yet similar fate.
Rev 11: [SUP]7 [/SUP]When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
2 Thes 2: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[SUP][b][/SUP] is revealed...
There is a falling away. The Church is mostly killed. The Two Witnesses are the two Churches, West (Roman Catholic) and East (Greek Orthodox). We are told in Rev 1 that the Church is a Lampstand. We are told in Rev 11 that the two witnesses are two lampstands. This is clear and there can be no debate as John is author of both passages and he wouldn't change symbolism. The Church split into East and West because of the Schism which began in 1054 AD.
We can deduce from the above symbolism and current world events that the West Church will be killed by Sodom or Gay Rights and that the East Church will be killed by Egypt which is the first beast to carry ISLAM. The Church is dead for 3.5 years which seems to coincide with the appearance of the Man of Sin (AKA AntiChrist). The Church is then seen in heaven as the Great Multitude.
S
I've got a time line for you all:
1. sixth seal opens
2. 144,000, who are the two witnesses, in that they are the two kingdoms of Israel, are sealed in their foreheads before the four winds are released by the four angels holding them back to rain destruction on the Earth.
3. While the enemies of God torment God's people the 144,000 torment the enemies of God using the power God grants to them. This war between the 2 witnesses and the enemies of God lasts for 3.5 years.
4. Once they are slain, they lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days. All 144,000 of them.
5. At this point the final trumpet blows and Christ begins His return. This signals the first resurrection. First the 144,000 who are the 2 witnesses are revived, then the dead in Christ rise up. This is immediately followed by the ascension of those who were dead in Christ followed by the remaining living who truly follow Christ. They do this before Christ even gets to our plane(spelling?) of existence on the last leg of His journey, as per ancient Israelite custom, of going out to great an important figure as he travels to your town before he gets there to accompany him on the last leg of his journey. This is what the 144,000 do as they follow Him back and appear once more in the land of Israel (I forgot which mountain).
6. Christ and His elect (or first fruits) then slaughter everyone left on earth for they are all now viewed as enemies of God.
7. Millenial reign of Christ.
8. The war of armageddon.
9. Second resurrection followed immediately by judgement day.
That's the best I can do all, based on what I can understand from what God has showed me. God bless.
1. sixth seal opens
2. 144,000, who are the two witnesses, in that they are the two kingdoms of Israel, are sealed in their foreheads before the four winds are released by the four angels holding them back to rain destruction on the Earth.
3. While the enemies of God torment God's people the 144,000 torment the enemies of God using the power God grants to them. This war between the 2 witnesses and the enemies of God lasts for 3.5 years.
4. Once they are slain, they lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days. All 144,000 of them.
5. At this point the final trumpet blows and Christ begins His return. This signals the first resurrection. First the 144,000 who are the 2 witnesses are revived, then the dead in Christ rise up. This is immediately followed by the ascension of those who were dead in Christ followed by the remaining living who truly follow Christ. They do this before Christ even gets to our plane(spelling?) of existence on the last leg of His journey, as per ancient Israelite custom, of going out to great an important figure as he travels to your town before he gets there to accompany him on the last leg of his journey. This is what the 144,000 do as they follow Him back and appear once more in the land of Israel (I forgot which mountain).
6. Christ and His elect (or first fruits) then slaughter everyone left on earth for they are all now viewed as enemies of God.
7. Millenial reign of Christ.
8. The war of armageddon.
9. Second resurrection followed immediately by judgement day.
That's the best I can do all, based on what I can understand from what God has showed me. God bless.
Seal One WHITE HORSE - AD 632. Mystery Babylon appears. Muhammad, Islam begins.
Seal Two RED HORSE - AD 1299. The 7th and Final Beast appears. Ottoman Empire. Islamic. Beast is mortally wounded in 1922. Slaughters millions of Christians. Last in the succession of 7 Beast Empires who "enslaved" Israel and took the Holy Land.
Seal Three BLACK HORSE - AD 1930s. Poorest countries are Muslim. Richest few are Muslims, "The Kings of the Earth."
Seal Four GREEN HORSE - AD 2014. Islamic State returns, the beast which was mortally wounded, yet now lives again. This beast has 10 horns or nations. 3 of these nations or horns will be "uprooted" and they are Iraq, Syria and Libya. This is the Beast of the Sea of Rev 13 and we are watching it now.
Seal Five SOULS UNDER ALTER - These are all martyred believers who have been killed since AD 632. They are Jews and Christians alike.
Seal Two RED HORSE - AD 1299. The 7th and Final Beast appears. Ottoman Empire. Islamic. Beast is mortally wounded in 1922. Slaughters millions of Christians. Last in the succession of 7 Beast Empires who "enslaved" Israel and took the Holy Land.
Seal Three BLACK HORSE - AD 1930s. Poorest countries are Muslim. Richest few are Muslims, "The Kings of the Earth."
Seal Four GREEN HORSE - AD 2014. Islamic State returns, the beast which was mortally wounded, yet now lives again. This beast has 10 horns or nations. 3 of these nations or horns will be "uprooted" and they are Iraq, Syria and Libya. This is the Beast of the Sea of Rev 13 and we are watching it now.
Seal Five SOULS UNDER ALTER - These are all martyred believers who have been killed since AD 632. They are Jews and Christians alike.
S
While I agree Islam is entirely wrong and a lie, Mystery Babylon has to be something that, when it is destroyed in one hour, the entire world grieves and all economic systems collapse worldwide. Islam is not that. Do not let anger or hatred or fear guide you. Find the quiet place and listen to God so that He may guide you from within the depths of your soul.
S
That's a possibility. The world will follow the Antichrist thinking he IS Christ. Since the church is said to BE the temple of God today (the people not the buildings) it makes more sense that the abomination of desolation today will be the act of setting himself up in the hearts of the faithful as the Christ returned which is why belief in a rapture out of the tribulation before death is a dangerous doctrine which will lead to many believing in and looking to the wrong man. The most important thing to do is be cautious.
L
Threads like this are the reason non-Christians like me think so little of Christians. You all read the same book and yet none of you can agree what that book is telling you.
Christianity is confusing, muddled, murky, and a barrier to new people.
If you all could get your message straight and unify, you'd be the most powerful force on this Earth. As it is though, you're like a bunch of hens in a hen house.
Christianity is confusing, muddled, murky, and a barrier to new people.
If you all could get your message straight and unify, you'd be the most powerful force on this Earth. As it is though, you're like a bunch of hens in a hen house.