Why Does God Allow for Evil to Exist?

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NiceneCreed

Guest
#1
Why Does God Allow for Evil to Exist? Did God create evil? Is there a difference between predestination and omniscience? Why create humans in the first place, knowing (because of omniscience) that by giving them free will, they were going to sin? Are there some questions regarding the problem of evil that we, as finite creations, can never understand or be given answers to? Do you believe there is a difference between "natural" and "moral" evil? What are those differences? What are some examples of "moral" and "natural" evil?

What is your personal opinion on any or all of these questions?
 
Mar 10, 2013
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#2
God did not create evil. the possibility of evil has existed since God created the first sentient being. IN order for love to exist there has to be a choice. The reason God has allowed evil to continue is explained in the parable of the weeds from Matthew 13:24-29. It ends this way

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 
May 15, 2013
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#3
God has given us the free will which means to be able to go the direction we prefer. The souls are not in God's control. God lure us in front of situations to see our reactions being in these situations. And if we reacted the way He react, then we are His sons. When Moses was on Mt.Zion, God was upset with the people for they had defiled themselves while Moses was in the presence of God. Moses pleaded with God not to have the people to be destroy; but when Moses has came down and saw for himself, his reaction towards the people was the same as God.
Moses was playing the role of Christ at the time. He was the mediator of the flesh that goes up to God and come down from.


Exodus 32
9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”
11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” 14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.
15 Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands.They were inscribed on both sides, front and back. 16 The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.
17 When Joshua heard the noise of the people shouting, he said to Moses, “There is the sound of war in the camp.”
18 Moses replied:
“It is not the sound of victory,
it is not the sound of defeat;
it is the sound of singing that I hear.”


19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. 20 And he took the calf the people had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink it.

Genesis 28:12

He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#4
Excellent post!
 
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enoch1nine

Guest
#5
The word that was translated as evil in the OT really means heartbreak
We have made it into something else that we imagined.
Jeremiah 32:35

Why Does God Allow for heartbreak to Exist?
So that we can appreciate the absence of it. We would be simple programmed animals otherwise.
And each of us has to be exposed to whatever amount makes us abhor it enough to stop every speck of it.
Daniel 12:10
Isaiah 66:23-34 all
flesh and their corpses

Did God create heartbreak?
It is a feeling that He also experiences and does not like.
He is the first and only one who is able to cast it out of
Himself (i.e. Jesus). But we went the extra mile and created something else that we understand as "evil"
Exodus 32:14-15 - written on both sides, one clear, one secret
Revelation 5:1 - same effect

Is there a difference between predestination and omniscience?
Out of the infinite number of creation plans He could have initiated, He used the one that would give Him one pure human, all He really needs, which He considers a son, yet also righteously result in the restoration of all the others.
Deut 4:32 - ask from one end to the other

Why create humans in the first place, knowing (because of omniscience) that by giving them free will, they were going to sin?
If He had been happy with animals, which cannot fully understand and choose Him, He would have stopped with them. But that would be un-fulfilling. Your dog cannot appreciate you on the same level you appreciate your dog. It doesn't know or choose you. You need something you can become "one" with.
Genesis 1:27 - first, lock it in as a core understanding, then
Genesis 2:20

Are there some questions regarding the problem of heartbreak that we, as finite creations, can never understand or be given answers to?
It's conditional. Some people yes, some people no, and there's only this one chance for mutual victory.
Isaiah 45:1-3 - addressed to His annointed

Do you believe there is a difference between "natural" and "moral" heartbreak?
Eve committed moral heartbreak. Adam committed natural heartbreak. Each of us starts with one or the other. We either observe the potential for self gain and instigate like Eve, or we are afflicted and retaliate like Adam.
Genesis 3:6

What are those differences?
Eve withheld sex for favors, Adam got fed up and took it anyway, and assumed control over impregnation.
Genesis 3:15-19 - punishment fits the crime, eye for eye, tooth for tooth

What are some examples of "moral" and "natural" heartbreak?
Any contrived instigation vs. any emotional retaliation.

So when you read that God says He will bring "evil" upon someone, take some comfort and know that it really says He will bring heartbreak. For the purpose of illustration and correction, to all people.

He's a heartbreaker, but not "evil" as we have imagined it.
Entire book of Job - Two halves of one righteous man challenge God for the purpose of getting answers, and it isn't considered sin.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#6
God does what God does for His eternal glory. The chief end of man is to glorify God. God is after all God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#7
Straight and to the point!
 
May 24, 2013
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#8
Because God is the One on Trial. He is the One that stands accused. It is a deep subject. It involves the sons of God who present themselves before the Lord. These are the 24 elders. Adam was to come and present himself before the Lord as well,, but Satan comes in his place, because Adam lost dominion when he sinned.

Satan made some hefty accusations to the other angels about God. If God would up and destroy Satan, all of creation would wonder if the accusations that Satan launched were true. Afterall, 1/3 of the angels sided with Satan.

If you notice the book of Job,,, Satan tells God the only reason Job worships him, is because he has material things,because he has Gods protection., because he has health.

Be assured all the sons of God who presented themselves before the Lord were watching intently on what God would do.

God is the one on trial! This isn't about us,, it's about vindicating God!

If you really want to know more about this,, I strongly urge anybody that read this to watch the 6 part series on "Exonerating God" by Pastor Bohr. It will blow you away.
 
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enoch1nine

Guest
#9
God is the one on trial! This isn't about us,, it's about vindicating God!
Whoop whoop!
Otherwise, how could we trust Him without question for the rest of all time?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#10
The ones who rip on God for the presence of evil are the same who rip on him for "making us robots" when he does decide to impose his will.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#11
I don't know whether or not I agree with your position. Of what authority is a finite creation to judge the sovereign Creator, God Almighty? Does God need to be exonerated by finite creations who question His [God's] nature? I think not!
 
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AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#12
God does not and can not think or desire sin or feel evil else He would be entreated to an essence and character of something He is not, He is not interested in anything that is not from Him or He Himself(sin evil hate, now for Him to hate hatred is another subject) because He is ALL that IS and ALL that is made. The will to chose is necessary and the problem solver of sin and is chosen to be the eternal deterrent of Sin in the eternal ages when all is restored and He is All and in All in this universe. Those who refuse sin and rebellion toward God will exonerate God exalt God and Christ Jesus in all their doings in Their Kingdom forever while those who rebelled and sinned against Him will be examples of THE deterrent of such rebellion forever.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#13
I would read the my first two, post in http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/62838-tree-knowledge-good-evil.html

some defintions there.


But, there is a drama playing out that God told us in detail about. we should be very familiar with His words He sent us.

God is light. So Evil does not come from light. God can cause calamity or problems for the wicked, But Not for the good.

The absence of God's light, is darkness. Not that he creates it. But people often choose to remain in darkness away.

And is evil something that can be created anyway ? is that something that comes from within out of a man, like Christ said ?

Matthew 15:

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#14
I agree with almost everything you said; however, I do not quite understand what this whole "Exoneration" business is about. God does not require we exonerate Him, nor does God need exonerated if He is perfect. Who are we, as His finite creations, to say whether or not He is perfect and good? I dare not question God's very nature! But as I said, aside from that one word, I agree with everything you stated. Excellent post!

Grace and Peace!
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#15
I have already formed my presuppositions (for the most part), as they pertain to the particular 'Theodicy' related questions I asked about the existence of evil. I suppose I post some of these questions in the forums to listen to what others have to say. Regardless of my presuppositions, I will admit when my theological view is wrong, and, I enjoy listening to others. We are very fortunate God did not let us eat of the "Tree of Life" after we had eaten of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." Can you imagine what the consequences would have been had such a thing happened? Perhaps we would have been damned to a permanent sinful state. At the very least, Adam and eve would have been damned. I don't think I am necessarily addressing anything specific to your statement; rather, I am just talking about the "Fall" of humanity in general. Thank you for your reply. And thank God for His grace and mercy!

Grace and Peace!
 
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AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#16
Exoneration is the exposure of the lies and accusations of the His enemy and ours (all the effect of it along with the doubt it created) this exposure reveals the light of His omnipotent Agape that will be forever revealed and experienced, along with the development of our eternal progression of His character nature and all powerful love permeating everything, ALL IN ALL
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#17
I guess I understand where you are going with this. But I would think, at least in the way it [exoneration] has been explained to me by several people, that exoneration of God would be for us, not for God. God needs no finite being/s to determine His [God's] innocence, love or mercy. That is just my opinion. Perhaps I still don't quite understand what is meant when people say "God will be exonerated." It just sounds absurd to me we would have any business exoneration our Creator, God Almighty; you know what I mean!? What authority do we have that isn't superseded my God's authority over us, His creation? I think I just dislike the way it is phrased, that's all . . .


Thanks once again for your reply.



Grace and Peace!
 

allaboutlove

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
480
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#18
Niceencreed... not even god should be above question now he is an amazing loving God an ive never seen a reason nor felt like i needed to question him but if he jus started striking innocent people down with lighting bolts or something id question that.... i dont think he would ever do anything like that but my point is if God turned out not to be the God we all know he is than i wouldnt still follow him just because he was God... i follow him because of who he is not what he is.
 
May 24, 2013
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#19
I guess I understand where you are going with this. But I would think, at least in the way it [exoneration] has been explained to me by several people, that exoneration of God would be for us, not for God. God needs no finite being/s to determine His [God's] innocence, love or mercy. That is just my opinion. Perhaps I still don't quite understand what is meant when people say "God will be exonerated." It just sounds absurd to me we would have any business exoneration our Creator, God Almighty; you know what I mean!? What authority do we have that isn't superseded my God's authority over us, His creation? I think I just dislike the way it is phrased, that's all . . .


Thanks once again for your reply.



Grace and Peace!
If you google "Exonerating God" by pastor Stephen Bohr and listen to part 1,, you would not have the questions that you do now... If you refuse to listen,, you will always speculate,, as you are doing now. Goodluck in your search for answers.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#20
I don't know whether or not I agree with your position. Of what authority is a finite creation to judge the sovereign Creator, God Almighty?
A lot of people in this thread seem to think they have the authority, take it up with them.