If God created evil in Isaiah 45:7 (according to the original Hebrew), then we must understand that evil is not sin. The Hebrew word is "RA". This is also translated as "RA"= "affected" in Zechariah 1:5. Therefore the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was not the knowledge of right and wrong, but the attributes of judgment belonging to God only as I see it. What do you think? Read Nehemiah 1:3, Psalm 34:19, Psalm 107:39, and Jeremiah 48:16 "affliction" or "afflicted" are also the Hebrew words in the Strong Concordance as "RA".
Tree of the knowledge of good and evil
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I have spent much time working with some of the Muslim faith and they seem not only to have bought the idea that God creates evil using that verse in Isaiah as though it means that all evil is created of God. From out of that idea springs for many of them the idea that Satan is actually a good angel who is not under God's condemnation but working with God as is God's will for him to do.
That interpretation does not fit the context of Isaiah chapter 45 where it is clear that the light and the darkness and the evil that God there creates are the just punishments upon his people when they rebel against him.
It is true that evil is not a word that is synonymous with the word for sin in Hebrew. That is only because whereas sin is always a bad thing, evil on the other hand can be used for either bad when it violates God's law of love or for good when it is necessary to meet out the justice that love demands on behalf of those who remain loyal in God's love.
The Hebrew word for evil comes from a root which properly means spoilage or to spoil. It is just of God to spoil man's rebellious ways. Left unchecked those rebellious ways of man would stomp out any remnant of faithful or maturing to be faithful seed which God has in this earth. ra`a` = a primitive root; properly, to spoil.
It is righteous on God's part to pay back evil for evil. He is the standard setter and we must learn that. He will therefore pay back evil for evil even upon his own people, which makes him a God to be seen as "terrible" when it comes to our taking the kind of evil that violates love and is sin, lightly.
chatta'ah or sin on the other hand means to miss the mark of God's high standards. It was also used in races to denote err by falling short of the finish line or goal.
By the way, evil is an abstract spiritual thing. It is a mere measurement of the degree of which something must deviate the rule of love, either justly so or as sin depending on who and why they are using it.
That interpretation does not fit the context of Isaiah chapter 45 where it is clear that the light and the darkness and the evil that God there creates are the just punishments upon his people when they rebel against him.
It is true that evil is not a word that is synonymous with the word for sin in Hebrew. That is only because whereas sin is always a bad thing, evil on the other hand can be used for either bad when it violates God's law of love or for good when it is necessary to meet out the justice that love demands on behalf of those who remain loyal in God's love.
The Hebrew word for evil comes from a root which properly means spoilage or to spoil. It is just of God to spoil man's rebellious ways. Left unchecked those rebellious ways of man would stomp out any remnant of faithful or maturing to be faithful seed which God has in this earth. ra`a` = a primitive root; properly, to spoil.
It is righteous on God's part to pay back evil for evil. He is the standard setter and we must learn that. He will therefore pay back evil for evil even upon his own people, which makes him a God to be seen as "terrible" when it comes to our taking the kind of evil that violates love and is sin, lightly.
chatta'ah or sin on the other hand means to miss the mark of God's high standards. It was also used in races to denote err by falling short of the finish line or goal.
By the way, evil is an abstract spiritual thing. It is a mere measurement of the degree of which something must deviate the rule of love, either justly so or as sin depending on who and why they are using it.
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There is no getting around that we are dealing with abstracts here.
Evil is an abstract standard measured by the degree of divination from God's pure and holy love.
Good is an abstract standard measured by the degree of divination from God's pure and holy love.
They are not realities that exist apart from individuals creating the conditions which constitute those abstracts.
Therefore it is impossible for anything in the scriptures to be saying that God creates all evil.
When one thinks that it does say that, it is a good indication that they have had their thinking tainted by the philosophies of men, like as the yin and yang fleshly wisdom.
If that is what any of you want for wisdom, that is nothing to me.
You are quite welcome to your way and it will not bother me.
May God teach you the wisdom that is his and find joy with you into all eternity. Amen.
Evil is an abstract standard measured by the degree of divination from God's pure and holy love.
Good is an abstract standard measured by the degree of divination from God's pure and holy love.
They are not realities that exist apart from individuals creating the conditions which constitute those abstracts.
Therefore it is impossible for anything in the scriptures to be saying that God creates all evil.
When one thinks that it does say that, it is a good indication that they have had their thinking tainted by the philosophies of men, like as the yin and yang fleshly wisdom.
If that is what any of you want for wisdom, that is nothing to me.
You are quite welcome to your way and it will not bother me.
May God teach you the wisdom that is his and find joy with you into all eternity. Amen.
Read Job - the whole book says God does EVERYTHING
Good and Bad - is from God. God says so. If you don't get that from Job you have not read it without being told it means something else.
Good and Evil is from God.
God even persuades people who might, had they had freewill done otherwise, to do evil. How many times in Exodus does the Bible say something like "God hardened Pharoah's heart" - in one polace it even predicts "Pharoah will allow you to do this but I will harden his heart and he will refuse"
God MAKES Pharoah act against the Jews though he knows that with freewill Pharoah would let them go.
Please guys do not cherry-pick your scripture.
The only thing that is not from God is iniquity - which is, effectively, doing against God. It is the definition of iniquity or sin.
But Good and Evil are from God.
Otherwise you would have to believe like many Jews did after the Exile in the Zaroastrianism beliefs of a good God and a bad God.
Many 'Christians' still believe that - they call the bad god the Devil.
Those that believe in the Devil as a force against God are following Zaroastrianism and are more or less pagans.
So either you're a pagan or you read Job and understood it.
Good and Bad - is from God. God says so. If you don't get that from Job you have not read it without being told it means something else.
Good and Evil is from God.
God even persuades people who might, had they had freewill done otherwise, to do evil. How many times in Exodus does the Bible say something like "God hardened Pharoah's heart" - in one polace it even predicts "Pharoah will allow you to do this but I will harden his heart and he will refuse"
God MAKES Pharoah act against the Jews though he knows that with freewill Pharoah would let them go.
Please guys do not cherry-pick your scripture.
The only thing that is not from God is iniquity - which is, effectively, doing against God. It is the definition of iniquity or sin.
But Good and Evil are from God.
Otherwise you would have to believe like many Jews did after the Exile in the Zaroastrianism beliefs of a good God and a bad God.
Many 'Christians' still believe that - they call the bad god the Devil.
Those that believe in the Devil as a force against God are following Zaroastrianism and are more or less pagans.
So either you're a pagan or you read Job and understood it.
I turn sixty in just fourteen more days, on May 1st.
I have had such a deep love for the Bible ever since I was a small child that I have always been accused even by any I ever attended church with (including the preacher) of being a fanatic at Bible study.
I do not speak to you what I do not know but I speak to you what through many years of trial and testing and shaping to the word as I perceived it to be, I now actually hear the holy spirit to be audibly speaking it to me.
Everything you have just stated I have thoroughly invested many times over, taking always care to deliberate it adequately to be certain as to whether it was right or wrong or incomplete and digging out the details of why.
Out of love for you I suggest you do the same.
I would go into more detail but your response indicates to me that you have already decided I am not worth listening to.
I tell you now, it is not my own wisdom I speak but the wisdom of Our heavenly Father and creator.
I wish you would listen to me so as to truly investigate what God tells you through me.
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
I have had such a deep love for the Bible ever since I was a small child that I have always been accused even by any I ever attended church with (including the preacher) of being a fanatic at Bible study.
I do not speak to you what I do not know but I speak to you what through many years of trial and testing and shaping to the word as I perceived it to be, I now actually hear the holy spirit to be audibly speaking it to me.
Everything you have just stated I have thoroughly invested many times over, taking always care to deliberate it adequately to be certain as to whether it was right or wrong or incomplete and digging out the details of why.
Out of love for you I suggest you do the same.
I would go into more detail but your response indicates to me that you have already decided I am not worth listening to.
I tell you now, it is not my own wisdom I speak but the wisdom of Our heavenly Father and creator.
I wish you would listen to me so as to truly investigate what God tells you through me.
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Very good point.
Freewill is a rebelion of man used in that fashion. If it were so that such was a gift from God then that would cast the shadow of guilt by complicity upon him and render his justice a selfish action on his part.
I hate that false doctrine for the many who have been made by it to think that God is at fault for man's sin. Free-will is one of the false doctrines that proves to be Satan's greatest helper aside from sexual immorality and lust for riches. There are other false doctrines that work with the same ill effect discourage thinking unbelievers from ever becoming believers.
You know yourself that idea is false if you would only think it through comparing it to how it works with the freedoms you permit your own children. No way do you give freedom to them to harm themselves and others.
I guarantee you, you are not more righteous than is God in his love for his children. Therefore you ought to be able to sense there is something very wrong about that idea.
Freewill is a rebelion of man used in that fashion. If it were so that such was a gift from God then that would cast the shadow of guilt by complicity upon him and render his justice a selfish action on his part.
I hate that false doctrine for the many who have been made by it to think that God is at fault for man's sin. Free-will is one of the false doctrines that proves to be Satan's greatest helper aside from sexual immorality and lust for riches. There are other false doctrines that work with the same ill effect discourage thinking unbelievers from ever becoming believers.
You know yourself that idea is false if you would only think it through comparing it to how it works with the freedoms you permit your own children. No way do you give freedom to them to harm themselves and others.
I guarantee you, you are not more righteous than is God in his love for his children. Therefore you ought to be able to sense there is something very wrong about that idea.
I do not believe in free will. Only that God is in control of all. All things are lawful, though not expidient.
I cannot have a good point and sense something wrong with this reasoning. We must remember that ALL things were made by Him and for Him. Evil serves the purpose of God as all things work for good.
I cannot have a good point and sense something wrong with this reasoning. We must remember that ALL things were made by Him and for Him. Evil serves the purpose of God as all things work for good.
Yes, I see now.
You spoke that as an appropriate mock to that false idea.
Very good. I am always happy to find out I misunderstood when the true perception is so positive.
"Evil serves the purpose of God as all things work for good."
Whether or not he creates it or wickedness in the hearts of men create it that holds true.
You spoke that as an appropriate mock to that false idea.
Very good. I am always happy to find out I misunderstood when the true perception is so positive.
"Evil serves the purpose of God as all things work for good."
Whether or not he creates it or wickedness in the hearts of men create it that holds true.
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T
Justamazed, God is sovereign and we have free will. If there was no such thing as free will, God wouldn't have given Adam and Eve the option/choice to not eat of the tree. They wouldn't have, because they would be programmed like robots to love God and everything he does and there would've been no Fall of Man. Obviously, that's not the case. Humans rebelled against God. A God who forces his creation to love him isn't a God of Love but a dictator and a tyrant. God is Love.
I should add, it is wrong to call evil a real thing.
It is a mistaken idea that evil is part of "ALL things [that] were made by Him and for Him."
Evil is a produce. Evil used other than by God's justice to defend love is the fruit of a rotten tree if you believe God.
I am trying to help you understand what abstracts are. They have no existence of their own in reality. They are always the product of something else as a consequence of that something else.
An abstract has no life of it's own, has no existence on it's own, it is not a real thing except for the consequences it is used to denote.
Evil is like the fruit of a rotten tree if we would believe God. He did not create evil which defies his love and his justice, the rotten tree did.
God can produce evil (spoilage) for us in the name of his justice but as for harmful evil which does as Paul says love never does is totally against God's character. That kind of evil is our fallen nature from our being disconnected from his spirit.
God is good. There is no immoral evil in God to be produced by God in violation of his own standard of love.. But there is in man due to man's disconnection from God.
1 Corinthians 8:1 "Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." (World English Bible)
Evil used in the way of God's justice prevents his love by those who are faithful to his love from being torn down. That sort of evil is a just consequence of people's actions meriting God's punishment.
Isaiah 45:7 "It is I that created the light, and darkness, I make peace, and trouble: yea even I the LORD do all these things." (William Tyndale Translation)
Deuteronomy 7:9 "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."
Isaiah 45:7 I form <H3335> the light <H0216>, and create <H1254> darkness <H2822>: I make <H6213> peace <H7965>, and create <H1254> evil <H7451>: I <H0589> the LORD <H3068> do <H6213> all <H3605> these <H0428> things <H9999>.
Notice that the word "things" is an added word as 9999 indicates. So we really are resting on what a man added when we make to much of that word being there.
It is a mistaken idea that evil is part of "ALL things [that] were made by Him and for Him."
Evil is a produce. Evil used other than by God's justice to defend love is the fruit of a rotten tree if you believe God.
I am trying to help you understand what abstracts are. They have no existence of their own in reality. They are always the product of something else as a consequence of that something else.
An abstract has no life of it's own, has no existence on it's own, it is not a real thing except for the consequences it is used to denote.
Evil is like the fruit of a rotten tree if we would believe God. He did not create evil which defies his love and his justice, the rotten tree did.
God can produce evil (spoilage) for us in the name of his justice but as for harmful evil which does as Paul says love never does is totally against God's character. That kind of evil is our fallen nature from our being disconnected from his spirit.
God is good. There is no immoral evil in God to be produced by God in violation of his own standard of love.. But there is in man due to man's disconnection from God.
1 Corinthians 8:1 "Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." (World English Bible)
Evil used in the way of God's justice prevents his love by those who are faithful to his love from being torn down. That sort of evil is a just consequence of people's actions meriting God's punishment.
Isaiah 45:7 "It is I that created the light, and darkness, I make peace, and trouble: yea even I the LORD do all these things." (William Tyndale Translation)
Deuteronomy 7:9 "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."
Isaiah 45:7 I form <H3335> the light <H0216>, and create <H1254> darkness <H2822>: I make <H6213> peace <H7965>, and create <H1254> evil <H7451>: I <H0589> the LORD <H3068> do <H6213> all <H3605> these <H0428> things <H9999>.
Notice that the word "things" is an added word as 9999 indicates. So we really are resting on what a man added when we make to much of that word being there.
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What do you have free will from God to do?
His will? Or, what ever you want? If the latter is what he gave you then why and how is he just to destroy you?
So that is really a relative freedom of will, relative to his will, isn't it.
Any more than that was stolen, usurped from God by Satan and man.
His will? Or, what ever you want? If the latter is what he gave you then why and how is he just to destroy you?
So that is really a relative freedom of will, relative to his will, isn't it.
Any more than that was stolen, usurped from God by Satan and man.
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It seems likely and goes along with...
'a tree to be desired to make one wise v.6;
And the eyes of them both were opened,v.7;
and they knew that they were naked v.7;
I was afraid, because I was naked (loss of innocence)v.10;
most fully extracted in God's two questions to Adam...And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? v.11
and in God's concluding words in v22... And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
If it was 'the attributes of judgement belonging to God alone' then the above passages hint that that 'ability of judgement' for Adam was hampered/twisted due to further damage incurred by the Fall...or maybe by just his own finiteness made him incapable of handling properly that knowledge.
'a tree to be desired to make one wise v.6;
And the eyes of them both were opened,v.7;
and they knew that they were naked v.7;
I was afraid, because I was naked (loss of innocence)v.10;
most fully extracted in God's two questions to Adam...And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? v.11
and in God's concluding words in v22... And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
If it was 'the attributes of judgement belonging to God alone' then the above passages hint that that 'ability of judgement' for Adam was hampered/twisted due to further damage incurred by the Fall...or maybe by just his own finiteness made him incapable of handling properly that knowledge.
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Please do not make the word "all" complicated. Remember Adam had NO knowledge of either good or evil. It was God who named the tree such as Adam was simply naked and not ashamed. Only God had knowledge of such. I agree that evil is abstract. You must also understand that in such a form, what is "evil" for one man may be "good" for another. This is why this knowledge leads to sorrow. I may love pork and you may think it's the worst thing a person can eat! Many think it evil to be "gay", to those who are such, how can it be? Evil is created out of love. You've heard the saying that it's a thin line between love and hate. Such is the law of works. A tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye. If we hate God, He in likewise fashion shows the same towards us. How can you tell? Remember God cannot be seen. But we see us and if we hate our brothers also created in God's similitude then the product will only be as good as it's parts. Another way of looking at hating our brother. Have you ever seen a homeless man beg for food in front of a store filled with food? THAT'S hating our brother so in turn you get that man stealing or robbing to satisfy his basic needs to survive. Now concerning things sacrificed to idols. What this means is that for you Christians and how you view muslims, understand that KNOWLEDGE of that very same abstract "good and evil" can only puff up! So if a Christian was to tell a Muslim "Christ is the ONLY way," that Muslim cannot hear that. All his life he only KNEW the good of Allah. But through knowledge the abstract reasoning of what's good and evil always seems to divide. Love however builds up but saying Jesus loves you means the same to him as not saying anything at all. The truth is at the end of the day Jesus and Allah have to pay rent, light and gas! Now we believe we hold the truth and for me my faith is in all being saved. So I know that an idol is nothing in the world meaning I give it no power over me or the Muslim. You see only a dead man can go back to having knowledge of neither. See all as dead to this world but alive to Christ. So you show that man the love in you by keeping your faith to yourself. By giving him a house to live in and food to eat. To TRULY do what the early Christians were killed for....... For making ALL THINGS COMMON! Sorry it's so bunched up my computer's enter button won't work on CC for some reason, lol.
T
god couldn't test us to determine if we are worthy of reward or punishment, without first giving us something to choose from. he was just in creating a bad guy to give us something to choose from. in that sense, it was necessary for his plan to contain sin (evil), yet it is flawless because of the end result. he created that plan because he is like us in that he gets lonely, wants have relationships and to share with others. that is why he created us and the plan of salvation! 
I see now see how far past the ability to reason man has become.
It is fitting that the ignorance of man this close to the end would be found working in such a fashion as to try so desperately with fancifulness of thinking to claim as Satan does that all is God's doing.
You are truly in a desperate state. All of you.
I pray for you that your hearts might get over your worship of your own intelligence which sees such illusions as real and creditable.
James 1:13-14 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
It is fitting that the ignorance of man this close to the end would be found working in such a fashion as to try so desperately with fancifulness of thinking to claim as Satan does that all is God's doing.
You are truly in a desperate state. All of you.
I pray for you that your hearts might get over your worship of your own intelligence which sees such illusions as real and creditable.
James 1:13-14 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
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