Questions about salvation and the Holy Spirit

onlinebuddy · Aug 24, 2013

God's love is unconditional. He loves the believer as well as the unbeliever.
However, salvation is conditional, and the condition is faith in Jesus. So only the believer is saved.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.(John 3:18)

We are saved purely by grace and not by anything we did or could possibly do. We did not earn or deserve salvation. However, we are instructed to have faith in Jesus, and faith is not a work. Faith is the condition of our hearts that shows God that we believe in his Son. If faith was a work, Jesus would not have recommend it in John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(John 6:28-29)

Now, you are saying that the faith is also the work of God and not something we must do. Why then did Jesus tell THEM to believe( in the verse above)?
You are also saying that we must do nothing. Why then did Peter tell the Jews to Repent and be baptized?
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.(Acts 2:37-41)Yes, God did the work of sowing the seed into their hearts through Peter. God also did the work of pricking their hearts (circumcision) and convicting them. This is the work of God.
However, they had to do something on their own will and volition(because they were not robots) as well. They had to believe and repent and be baptized, and these CANNOT BE CATEGORIZED AS WORKS, simply because their belief did not save them. It was the work of Christ's redemption that saved them. So the CREDIT AND GLORY GOES TO CHRIST and not to the believer.

For eg. If someone would offer you free gift of a cheque of million rupees, would it automatically show in your bank statement? Definitely not! You have to first BELIEVE that the offer is genuine. Then you have to reach out and TAKE A HOLD of the cheque and DEPOSIT it in your bank. Now, just because you took the cheque and went to the bank and deposited it and waited for the money to be credited into your account you cannot say that it is not free. You cannot say that you have EARNED the million rupees just because you have done the work of receiving the cheque and then you have done the work of depositing it.

Similarly, God has done the work of sowing the seed in our hearts. Jesus has done the work of redemption. Our salvation is conditional on our responding. If we believe, we will be saved. If we do not believe, we will not be saved. Every person has and will be given a fair chance to respond out of his own will and volition (because we aren't robots) to the message of Christ. This (reaching out to unbelievers) is the work that God is doing.

Now, the verse that you have quoted:
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:10)
"We" does not refer to the entire world (believers + non believers). We refers only to believers. The believers (spiritual birth, to be born again) are the "workmanship" or the handiwork of God (i.e. work of God's hands). We (believers) were created (not at our physical birth, but at our spiritual birth) in Christ unto good works (that display God's love, not works that save as our works cannot save us), (works) which God hath before ordained....
So this verse is not saying that all mankind (believers+unbelievers) are his workmanship. Believers are his workmanship.
What did God ordain? Good works that believers are to do to show the love of Christ. Obviously these works are the result of being given a legal position. These are not works to obtain the legal position.
So, believers were created unto good works...works that God prepared in advance for us(believers) to do.

I am not done responding to this particular post. I will do so when I have the time. Meanwhile, stay blessed!

onlinebuddy · Aug 25, 2013

The Father draws us to Jesus, and the rest is up to us (whether to believe or not ), but the Father does not do the believing for us. Also, the Father DOES NOT MAKE us believe. If the Father made us believe, we are mere robots without a will of our own. The Father does not influence our choice (which would be favouritism), but he assists everyone in making their choices. WE have to act out of our volition and respond and believe. It's a choice WE must make because WE ARE NOT ROBOTS.

God gave man (and even the angels) a free will. Therefore man has a free will to choose whether he would accept the message of Christ, or reject it. Satan stands condemned because he chose to rebel. Same is the fate of all who choose not to believe. My Bible tells me this.

It makes no logical sense to say that everyone will be saved, when the Bible tells us that only a few will walk on the narrow road and those few will be saved.

If the entire world (believers + non believers) would be saved, then why would all the Israelites (except for two) die in the desert? Why didn't God chastise the Israelites till they believed ?

If the entire world (believers+ non believers) would be saved. Why were only 8 saved during the time of Noah? Why did God let them die? Why did he not chastise them till they believed, as you say.

You have said somewhere that God may give people a chance to believe and repent even after death. Where does the Bible tell us this? Death is the end of any chance to believe and repent. A person is given many fair chances to believe and repent when he or she is alive. So, when the Israelites (who chose to not to believe) died, that was the end of their chances.

More than anyone, I would like to believe that everyone is saved, if you, dear sister, would show me in the Bible where it says this.

Sanashankar · Aug 25, 2013

Brother, no where in the bible it says that "you will not be saved". God does not say "i will not give u salvation". Yes but it says u will not receive the "everlasting life".

I wud like to point out that the word used for everlasting is "aionios" which means an "age". An "age" has a beginning and end. the life we receive is eonian life. I believe that is the life the believers are going to get when Jesus Christ comes for second time. The millenium years that the believers are going to have with Jesus Christ.

There is 2 kinds of resurrection

Jn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the[1] resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the[2] resurrection of damnation.

Damnation is not the right word.

G2920 krisis kree'-sis

by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law).

The first resurrection will be to "eonian life" with Jesus Christ, till then the wicked people will not be resurrected.

Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

So they resurrect only after the 1000years of Christ. They will loose the "eonian life (everlasting life in KJV and others). The life that the Israelites were waiting for. They will loose it because they did not accept Jesus Christ as the lord. Only the saints will be resurrected.

the rest once the 1000 years is over, will resurrect as the bible says in Rev 20:5.
The will be punished and go thru spiritual lake of fire, god will chastise them, purge their sin and purify them. That is the real judgment for them. And this will be done thru the saints

1C 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

and the whole world will learn righteousness

Isa 26:9 for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Then Jesus Christ will submit the whole world to God and God will be ALL IN ALL.

1C 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

onlinebuddy · Aug 25, 2013

You are saying that God created both (believers and unbelievers). This verse is nowhere saying this.
Believers are those who CHOOSE to believe.
Unbelievers are those who CHOOSE not to believe.

==============
CONTEXT of this passage:
Before Jacob and Esau were born, and before they could do anything good or bad, God had declared that He loved Jacob and rejected Esau. Is God unjust?
God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. Is God unjust?
God does everything to fulfill his purpose of revealing Jesus to mankind.
But why make Esau and Pharaoh scapegoats? This is the question many will ask.
We (the created) should not question the Creator, because our tiny brains do not understand all his actions.
Because God makes some vessels unto honour and some unto dishonour that does not make him unjust.
==============

If someone says that God makes people bad for his purpose. This would put God in bad light.
This would mean that:
-that God made them sin and kill and murder innocent human beings
-that God tempts people to sin
-that God is partial (shows favouritism)
-that these sinners are not responsible for their sins
- that sinners can blame God and not themselves
-that man is a robot and has no free will
-that there is no judgement and punishment, because God is responsible for making them sin

Now all the above points pervert the image of a pure and just God, and are therefore not true. My Bible tells me that God DOES NOT EVEN people to sin. Also, God does not show favouritism and chooses one man for salvation and other for damnation.

If we read further in the same passage, it says in v. 19: 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?By this verse, Paul is saying that the wicked may get an opportunity to blame God for making them wicked, for his purpose and will. The truth is that God does not make people wicked. Before Pharaoh's heart was hardened, he was already a wicked man by HIS OWN CHOICE. He was a murderer and oppressed God's people. Therefore God (using his foreknowledge) hardened the heart of a wicked person. We can also infer that God already knew (due to His foreknowledge) that Esau would be a wicked man.

If God hardens a godly person's heart then God is unjust. But this does not match up with the rest of scripture. So God is just.

Bottomline:
-We must not question God because we may never understand everything about him in our lifetime.
-We must not blame God for our sins, because he is not the author of sin.
-God does not create people to do evil
-Man has a free will and is not a robot
-Whatever he does may seem unjust, but he is a perfectly just God.

Sanashankar · Aug 25, 2013

And about free will, i actually believe in complete sovereignty of God. We have a choice, but that is depended on the external and internal CAUSES. That causes are made by God. God clearly says, those who are accoustumed to do evil they will not do right.

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

If i am accustomed to do evil, do i have the free will to go against God's will???
We give every credits to God and we say free will, we say because of God we are saved and we say we have free will. Its like square circle.

God gives us the chance, it is our free will to accept it or not...ok, what if God is not giving every individuals a chance?what happened to the old testament people? none of them knew who Jesus Christ was.

Hb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

who shud be made perfect? read the above verses, it says abt the old testament people. Remember Paul calls himself the most dangerous man. He was persecuting the churches. He was going to kill the christians. What happened to Him, Did he change because of his "free will" or because of God?

Ac 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Now if this incident happened to Hitler or Osama bin Laden or any dangerous person lived on earth, wud they not have changed? If God wud have spoken to Hitler like this he wud have changed. People do mistakes, they do wicked things because they are ignorant. See what Jesus said

Lk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Jesus is asking God to forgive the sinners who killed him, not the believers. If Jesus has mercy towards the wicked people who killed him, God will not have? He is the image of the Father

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

God will forgive all his creation. He is LOVE. His love is unconditional. Parents forgive their children, no matter how bad they are. God will not? If we say God loves only the believers, that is conditional love. There is a condition "you believe" i will love. if not "i will put u in oven"

God is always love, the same love Jesus had for sinners, God has that love.

Sanashankar · Aug 25, 2013

We are responsible for our sins, we will face judgment for that. But Gos is accountable for it. He created us. He gave a heart which has all the capacity to do evil, to sin along with love and other good things.

He created the tree of knowledge of "good" and "evil". God created that. Not satan. If an inventor makes a machine, and if it goes wrong, who is responsible for that? Why was not Adam created in such a way that he cud have resisted the evil. He cud have rebuked the devil. Why was Adam not as strong? Why did not God make adam's free will more stronger?

Would God create a product(man) that had unfettered capacity to do evil on the earth and NOT grant himself the ability to control the product?

Additionally, when that product runs amok would you stand aside and say 'Even though I created this MONSTER I can't help it UNLESS it comes to me first'.

The 'free will' doctrine is not just some innocuous error it is a PERVASIVE evil that insults the POWER and INTELLIGENCE of God.

onlinebuddy · Aug 25, 2013

Let me answer one question at a time.

"Accustomed to do evil"
This means habituated to do evil. Who are the ones who are accustomed to do evil? Those who CHOOSE to do evil, because they loved sin more than a godly life. God did not destine them to do evil. If people are destined by God to do evil, then God an unjust and partial God.

CONTEXT: Jeremiah is the one who is speaking the above words. He had witnessed the destruction of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians. Here he was prophesying against the Southern Kingdom and telling them that they are so steeped in wickedness and accustomed to do evil (by their own choice) that judgement would come upon them in the form of captivity in Babylon, which happened later. If the Israelites were not at fault (and all their idolatory was planned and destined by God), why is Jeremiah challenging and warning them and asking them to REPENT? Did God destined them to worship idols? Is he a confused God to first create them without a free will to worship idols and then chastise them by putting them under harsh captivity for half their lives?

Are you saying that humans are robots and that they are programmed to do certain things (good and bad) that were predestined by God?
Or are you saying that humans have instincts that lead them to do certain things?
For eg: No one teaches a cat to scratch or to bury its own poop. It does these things by instinct. So if my cat pees around my room, I will not blame it, because it is marking its territory by instinct. This is considered normal behaviour for cats.

In contrast, when a person worships an image of a calf, it is not normal. it is deviant behaviour. Are you saying that when Moses went to the mountain, the Israelites made a golden calf because God had programmed them to do so? Surely not? That choice of making a golden calf was made by the Israelites out of their own free will.

In the above passage, Jeremiah was telling the Israelites that their sins were so great that it was impossible for them to turn back, just as it is impossible for an Ethiopian to change his skin color or for a leopard to change its spots. An analogy is made here to tell the Israelites that they were doomed because of their stubbornness.

Surely, we give credit to God because our salvation was PAID FOR by Jesus. So Jesus gets the credit, even though the CHOICE was made by us. Our CHOICE to follow Christ did not save us, but HIS SACRIFICE saved us. Nevertheless, we must make that choice, otherwise we don't get the free gift of salvation. Salvation is conditional. So there is something God expects us to do. God's love is unconditional. He loves both the believers and unbelievers.

Yes, at the resurrection, God will give credit to every BELIEVER for their good deeds. However, Jesus gets the credit the salvation of these believers.

starfield · Aug 25, 2013

Sanashankar said:

Universalists claim that God unconditionally loves everyone, everyone is a child of God, thus He will eventually save everyone but that is not a biblical concept. His love is undeserved but…
Psalms 5:4-6
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day".

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Furthermore: "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). So is everyone a child of God? No. Children of God are those who are in fellowship with the Lord Jesus. As many as received Him to them He gave the power to be called sons of God (John 1:12-13). God's love and forgiveness is found in His Son alone therefore, those who do not believe in His Son are not His children and remain unforgiven thus His wrath abides upon them.

There are no opportunities for salvation after death because man is destined to die once and after that face judgment (Hebrews 9:27), and also the story of the Rich man and Lazarus shows that there is no chance to change your destiny in eternity. Saying that non-believers' punishment in hell is temporary or that there is no hell is simply conjecture because scripture clearly speaks of “everlasting punishment” and "everlasting fire", and the existence of hell is because of God's justice and holiness. Sana, you contradict yourself for claiming that you believe in complete sovereignty of God while denying His sovereign and decretive choice to eternally punish non-believers in hell. Go figure!

starfield · Aug 25, 2013

Sanashankar said:

Ummm...human beings are not automated machines.
Quit blaming God for your sins.
James 1:13.

Hizikyah · Aug 25, 2013

Yahchanan (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."

Hebrews 10:26-29, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the tblood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and uwho has insulted the Spirit of mercy?"

Hizikyah · Aug 25, 2013

Originally Posted by Sanashankar

He created the tree of knowledge of "good" and "evil". God created that. Not satan. If an inventor makes a machine, and if it goes wrong, who is responsible for that?

starfield said:

I agree:

Yahweh created humans with free will, Yahweh then gave man a moral code to live by. When man dosn't follow that moral code then they will bring curses upon themselves and the world. If Yahweh interveined and didn't allow this evil that would not be free will and there would be no reason to create us in the first place. And I believe Yahweh is allowing man a full allotment of time, to insure none can say "if we had a little longer we would have made paradise." I believe as shown in the confusion of languages, to stop the then "New World Order," Babylon, from completing a world RULING kingdom and satan actually destroying the human race.I could go on and on in explanation, I think keeping it simple will be better.

2 endtime prophecies that explain it.

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth alanguish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Mattithyah 24:11-13 & 20-22, "And many false prophets will rise, and will deceive the many. And because iniquity; (the breaking of Yahweh's Law), will abound, the love of the many will grow cold. But he who endures until the end, the
same will be saved.... But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's , those days will be shortened."

onlinebuddy · Aug 25, 2013

So you are saying that God did not give the OT people a chance, aren't you? You are also saying that none of them knew who Jesus Christ was.

Let me explain my understanding:

The people of the OT had the Law. The Law could not save. it only made man conscious of sin that they had committed out of their own free will. Also, the Law is said (by Paul) to be a schoolmaster that leads men to Christ.

So aren't the OT people saved?
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (Gal 3:11)
In the above verse, Paul tells us that the righteous or just (those who choose to do right) shall live (or will be saved) by Faith. So the OT saints (believers only) were saved by faith (exercising their free will).
Now, what about those who lived before the Law as given? Romans 4 tells us that Abraham was justified (saved) by faith. Romans 4 also tells us that David was saved by faith. Whom did they believe in. They believed in the promise of a coming Messiah. This promise of the coming Messiah or Saviour who would be pierced for the transgression of man is painted all over the OT.

So, in conclusion, we both the OT and NT saints are saved by faith in the Messiah.

Hb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

who shud be made perfect? read the above verses, it says abt the old testament people.

Click to expand...

This verse talks about the fact that the OT would be made perfect together with us. This is because both the OT and NT saints are justified by faith.

In fact not only will the OT saints (believers) be made perfect together with us, but also the NT saints (only the believers) will share in the blessings of Abraham
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.(Gal 3:8-9)

If we say that they had no gospel, read the above verse. God is the same to OT and NT saints. He does not change his mind like the fleeting shadows. He preached the same message to bot the OT and NT people.

So how can you say that the OT people did not have a chance to exercise their free will? They had all the opportunity and saw more signs and wonders than the NT people. How many NT people saw the following:
- sea split into two
- pillar of fire and smoke
- sun standing still
-manna and quail
-water from the rock
- clothes not being worn out
-flood
-fire from heaven
-wall falling down
-the list goes on...
Would you still say that God did not give the OT people a chance to exercise their free will and believe?

onlinebuddy · Aug 26, 2013

How many miracles did Pharaoh see? Did he change? No. Therefore God hardened his hard heart further, so that he may never know the truth. This is because God in his foreknowledge knows who will repent and who will not. Nevertheless, he gives every soul a chance to exercise his will and have faith, lest the person says, "I never had a chance!"

I believe that Hitler or Osama has had plenty of chances to repent in their lifetime. Similarly, you and I will get plenty of chances to exercise our will and have faith and repent of our sins. Jesus will not appear to every person the way he appeared to Saul. However, he will give every soul on earth a chance to believe and repent out of their own free will, because they aren't robots.

I'm surprised how you say these things! Everyone is born with the basic knowledge of what is right and wrong. Didn't Judas have plenty of chances? Or was he ignorant after living with the Lord? Would you still say that he was ignorant? Are you saying that God made Judas betray Jesus?
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,(Hosea 4:6)Why did the people in the OT lack knowledge? Because God did not give them knowledge? Surely not! They lacked knowledge because they rejected knowledge.

As I have written again and again, God's love is unconditional, but salvation is conditional. In the above verse, Jesus out of his unconditional love is asking the Father to forgive those who killed him. It is important to note that he is not telling God to save them. Also, he is not saying that they are ignorant of what is right and wrong. He is just saying that they are ignorant of whom they are killing: The Lord of Lords. Just because they are ignorant that they are killing the Lord, does not justify them. They are still in sin. That's why Jesus is praying to the Father to forgive them of that specific sin and not hold it against them. They still would have to answer God for the other sins in their lives or repent.

Now you would say that God predestined them kill Jesus, wouldn't you? So you would rather blame God than sinful man.

Where in the Bible does it say this?

Parents are sinners too. Therefore they MUST forgive. Remember that parents also spoil their children. Most things children do are influenced by parents. So, please do not compare sinful parents and a perfectly pure God.

Where in this thread have I said this- that God loves only believers? You are reading and understanding incorrectly.

If you read your Bible, you will know that God is Love, but he is also a just God.

duewell · Aug 26, 2013

Q1) Are you saved? When? How do you know?
yes, 4-10-09. the bible confirms the experience
Q2) What must one do to be saved (if there is anything they must do)?
confess,repent, follow the Spirit, put to death the sins of the flesh,believe.
Q3) When did you receive the Holy Spirit?
2009
Q4) What is the evidence that you have received the Holy Spirit?
personal physical signs and spiritual signs of change. many would seem unbelievable and could be talked about for hours.
Q5) How were you baptized (immersion in water, sprinkling of water, fire, some other way) ?
in sept. of 2009. after a church wouldn't baptize me i went on a journey to the middle of nowhere and encountered three dogs that led me to a stream. one stood one its hind legs in the water, so i went in and it put a paw on each of my shoulders, i was immersed 3 times, in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. not a typical baptism by any means. guess you had to be there. its not something i talk about much because of how incredulous it sounds to most people.

duewell
mark 4 v 11-13

onlinebuddy · Aug 26, 2013

duewell said:

Q1) Are you saved? When? How do you know?
yes, 4-10-09. the bible confirms the experience
Q2) What must one do to be saved (if there is anything they must do)?
confess,repent, follow the Spirit, put to death the sins of the flesh,believe.
Q3) When did you receive the Holy Spirit?
2009
Q4) What is the evidence that you have received the Holy Spirit?
personal physical signs and spiritual signs of change. many would seem unbelievable and could be talked about for hours.
Q5) How were you baptized (immersion in water, sprinkling of water, fire, some other way) ?
in sept. of 2009. after a church wouldn't baptize me i went on a journey to the middle of nowhere and encountered three dogs that led me to a stream. one stood one its hind legs in the water, so i went in and it put a paw on each of my shoulders, i was immersed 3 times, in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. not a typical baptism by any means. guess you had to be there. its not something i talk about much because of how incredulous it sounds to most people.

duewell
mark 4 v 11-13

One of the most unusual account of baptism I have ever heard. At times I thought you were joking, but then you seem to be pretty straightforward in the previous answers.

Sanashankar · Aug 26, 2013

My just God is a loving God, forgiving God above all a sovereign God, according to whom the whole universe is moving, including human beings, who thinks they have free will. Im sure God will be mocking at us when we say we choose things because we have free will.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

I wonder how God can declare he end, if man had free will. Ofcourse he will be having an account of how many going to be saved in the end. What if man's free will changes what is declared by God. NO CHANCE

onlinebuddy · Aug 26, 2013

Sanashankar said:

I'd rather have God laugh at me than have him judge me for calling him a confused God who devises evil and who shows favouritism to his creation by making one man a murderer and the other a saint.

God's love and justice go hand in hand. If God had only love and not justice that would make his nature lopsided.

God can OBVIOUSLY declare the end from the beginning, because he has not left everything to man. HE HAS SET LIMITS. He is sovereign and is in control of the universe. He has his purpose and will not let man or the angels or satan to thwart his purpose. When man stands united against God (as in the Tower of Babel) God will show them that HE IS GOD. When man gets arrogant, God will humble them.

When I say that man has a free will, I mean that man can choose whether to have faith or to deny the truth (I have written this so many times). Man will accordingly also bear the consequences for his choices (Gal 6:7).

If man was not given the free will to choose why would Jesus tell them to repent? I need an answer from you dear sister.
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand(Mt 4:17)

Here are few more verses that prove that man has a free will :
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,(Ro 1:18-22)
Against whom is the wrath of God revealed? Against the ungodliness and unrighteousness of whom? Of man. So man chose to sin, right? If God predestined these people to be bad, why is God angry at them? Please answer dear sister!

You have said somewhere above that people did wrong things because they were ignorant. Verse 20 says that all things of God are clear to man. They are NOT ignorant. Therefore they have knowingly rejected God and are "without excuse." Would you still say that Osama and Hitler will be excused by God for mass murdering people because they were ignorant?

I have tried to answer all your questions using scripture. I wish to continue, but this argument is not doing any justice to my original question. I may start another thread with my original question. Meanwhile I will continue to answer your questions.

God bless you dear sister.

Sanashankar · Aug 28, 2013

I don't know to whose post i should reply.

You say

God: "Jesus, my son, do u think Sanashankar is going to have faith till the end, or she will deny me when she gets wealth?"

Jesus: "I don't have a clue, Father"

I say
God :"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:..........Sanashankar will endure till the end"

Jesus :"I know Father, You have chosen her before the creation of the world, who is there do go against that?"

No offense to the God and Lord, but i cannot explain in any other ways.

Sanashankar · Aug 28, 2013

I see a lot of contradiction in your posts

Free will of man and sovereinity of God will not go hand in hand.

Believe in one thing Sovereignty of God / Free will of Men

What does it mean to you when bible says "God has chosen you before the creation of the world". How can a chosen child of God go wrong because of his free will, when he is chosen before he is born by God?????????

You are contradicting the word of God

Does not this verse say god hated Esau even before he had "free will"?????? You are contradicting the word of God

Ro 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

The whole bible is written for the chosen children of God. For the ones God has chosen to be with Christ

Jn 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

the sinners/unbelievers are not gonna understand what the bible says. No one understood the parables Jesus told, excpet the ones he wanted to know. God brings "delusion"

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Ro 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

It is God who does all these things.

Sanashankar · Aug 28, 2013

Ro 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Ro 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Ro 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Ro 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Read the verses carefully. I guess Romans too had the same doubt u asked me.

free will???? Come on...after reading these verses????

Ro 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth (free will ), nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Questions about salvation and the Holy Spirit

Senior Member

Senior Member

Sanashankar

Guest

Senior Member

Sanashankar

Guest

Sanashankar

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Sanashankar

Guest

Senior Member

Sanashankar

Guest

Sanashankar

Guest

Sanashankar

Guest