Imputed

[brmicke]

I want to address this topic to clarify what I think is a misconception. I am aware of nine occurrences of the Greek word that is translated as "impute","imputed" or "imputing", in the KJV of the New Testament.

The word or concept of something that is "imputed" is understood two different ways in contemporary Christian thought.
The meaning that the word "imputed" is intended to convey may have changed over time, and this may have contributed to what I consider to be the "misconception" regarding the words intended meaning in scripture.

1. The word "imputed" means to "recognize" a characteristic that a person possesses" at the time.
2. The word "imputed" does not mean that a characteristic is undeservedly bestowed upon a person.

The greek word # 3049 is translated as "reckoned" in the KJV in Romans 4:10. The same word #3049 is translated as imputed in Romans 4:11.

3049. logizomai - to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively):--conclude, (ac-)count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

Abraham had done the "right thing" in Romans 4:11 and God simply recognized that Abraham had done the right thing in God's eyes by putting His faith in God.

Being "righteous" is not a stamp of approval indicating that a person has been undeservedly and permanently absolved of all evil or made incorruptible forever. The word means that they are "right" before God in what they have done.

Ro 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.(KJV)
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Ro 4:23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. {committed...: Gr. put in us} (KJV)
Ga 3:6 ¶ Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. {accounted: or, imputed }
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (KJV)

The misinterpretation of this word (strongs #3049) appears to be behind the misconception that a Christian is not able to sin.

The concept that states "where there is no law there is no more sin", is used in two different ways in scripture, they are seen in Romans 4:8 and Romans 5:3.

In Romans 4:8 the Lord does not "impute sin" because it does not exist - "the sin had been forgiven by God".

The first occurrence of the concept is in Romans 3:25 where the bible says that the persons "past sins" were forgiven, and it says the same thing of the person in Romans 4:7 and then the statement of sin not being "imputed" or recognized immediately follows in the next verse, Romans 4:8. So the sin mentioned in Romans 4:8 was not "imputed" or recognized because it did not exist. God had forgiven the person for violating or breaking His law.

The second occurrence of the concept is found in Romans 5:3 where the phrase "not imputed" or not recognized" means that before the Law was given to Moses people were sinful, but it was not considered to be a violation of the Law (sin is transgression of the law, 1 Jn 3:4) because the Law did not exist before it was given to Moses.

The misconception "that a Christian cannot sin" is seen to be supported by 1 Jn 3:9 and the two misconceptions then appear to support one another.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. {is born: or, has been born} (KJV)

1 John 3:9 simply refers to the Christian who the chapter had previously identified as a person who had -

a. purified himself as 1 John 3:3 illustrates.
b. abides in Jesus (and His teaching) and does not sin as 1 Jn 3:6 illustrates.

The person who sins has not seen or known (understood completely) who Jesus is. To think that we know God is a mistake, we do not know Him (completely), but He does know us, as Gal 4:9 says.

Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Ga 4:9 But "now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God", how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. {darkly: Gr. in a riddle} (KJV)

 

[notuptome]

Ps 32:2 Speaks of the man who is blessed because God does not impute to him iniquity. In the Hebrew we see this as attributing to some one a specific characteristic.

Grace imputes to the believer Gods righteousness. 2 Cor 5:21.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[starfield]

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Phil 3:9 And be found in him,not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Thank God for His gift of righteousness by our union with Christ.

 

[Skinski7]

The Bible actually teaches that God "imputes" or "reckons" or "counts" FAITH/BELIEF itself as righteousness.

Paul quotes Psalm 32 in Romans 4...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

God cannot count someone as righteous unless God imputes not their iniquity. The "in whose spirit there is no guile" is often completely ignored by people because the actual real condition of the heart is disconnected from faith in their doctrine.

What David is asserting is that blessed is the man whom God forgives their sins, a man in whose heart there is no deceit. This is why David ends this Psalm with...

Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Those whom God reckons as righteous by their faith have upright hearts because they have come clean before God in repentance and faith (confessed and forsaken their rebellion). Thus Abraham was a man whose faith had a walk (Rom 4:12) associated with it.

Faith means faithfulness. Faith means abiding in the truth and therefore walking in the truth. Faith means submitting from the heart to the will of God. Faith means no more rebellion to God. Faith means to love God with all our heart, soul and mind. Faith is wrought through diligently seeking God whereby we are broken on the rock of Christ and henceforth raised up by the power of God unto newness of life.




There are many people who profess Jesus Christ as Lord today and claim to "believe" and have "faith" merely because they believe in "facts" surrounding the death of Christ and yet still walk in rebellion to God. There is no rebellion in being saved from the bondage of sin. The bondage to sin is broken in salvation.

The New Covenant is the means that we can be reconciled to God and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness and all sin IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. That is the condition. The unrighteous man must forsake his unrighteousness and the wicked man must forsake his wickedness and turn back to God.

Salvation is wrought in abiding in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ. That is how we are made the righteousness of God in Him (2Cor 5:21). We are made righteousness through abiding in the grace of which means we walk in the light as He is in the light. In other words we FOLLOW Jesus.


God bless.

 

[notuptome]

The Bible actually teaches that God "imputes" or "reckons" or "counts" FAITH/BELIEF itself as righteousness.

Paul quotes Psalm 32 in Romans 4...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

God cannot count someone as righteous unless God imputes not their iniquity. The "in whose spirit there is no guile" is often completely ignored by people because the actual real condition of the heart is disconnected from faith in their doctrine.

What David is asserting is that blessed is the man whom God forgives their sins, a man in whose heart there is no deceit. This is why David ends this Psalm with...

Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Those whom God reckons as righteous by their faith have upright hearts because they have come clean before God in repentance and faith (confessed and forsaken their rebellion). Thus Abraham was a man whose faith had a walk (Rom 4:12) associated with it.

Faith means faithfulness. Faith means abiding in the truth and therefore walking in the truth. Faith means submitting from the heart to the will of God. Faith means no more rebellion to God. Faith means to love God with all our heart, soul and mind. Faith is wrought through diligently seeking God whereby we are broken on the rock of Christ and henceforth raised up by the power of God unto newness of life.




There are many people who profess Jesus Christ as Lord today and claim to "believe" and have "faith" merely because they believe in "facts" surrounding the death of Christ and yet still walk in rebellion to God. There is no rebellion in being saved from the bondage of sin. The bondage to sin is broken in salvation.

The New Covenant is the means that we can be reconciled to God and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness and all sin IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. That is the condition. The unrighteous man must forsake his unrighteousness and the wicked man must forsake his wickedness and turn back to God.

Salvation is wrought in abiding in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ. That is how we are made the righteousness of God in Him (2Cor 5:21). We are made righteousness through abiding in the grace of which means we walk in the light as He is in the light. In other words we FOLLOW Jesus.


God bless.

We are positioned in Christ and made righteous by the determinate will of God. We walk in the Light as a result of our position in Christ not to be in the position through obedience.

Only Christ was obedient to the satisfaction of the Father. Through grace we receive the benefits of Christ's obedience. We can add nothing nor take away anything from what Christ has done.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Skinski7]

We are positioned in Christ and made righteous by the determinate will of God. We walk in the Light as a result of our position in Christ not to be in the position through obedience.

Only Christ was obedient to the satisfaction of the Father. Through grace we receive the benefits of Christ's obedience. We can add nothing nor take away anything from what Christ has done.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Are you not contending for a notion of a "position in Christ which is apart from obedience"?

In other words are you not contending for a notion that one can be "in Christ" and be disobedient at the very same time? Address the point in the previous sentence if you will.





The premise of my previous post was that "God imputing FAITH as righteousness" is connected with an "upright heart" and that the means of the establishment of an upright is via "abiding in the Spirit" as opposed to "being in rebellion" and walking according to the lusts of the flesh.

I understand such rhetoric does not sit well with the Reformed notion of an abstract salvation apart from manifest heart purity in those whom are saved.

So the question I ask you is do you subscribe to the notion that one can be "disobedient to God" and be "in Christ" at the very same time?

 

[Skinski7]

"We can add nothing nor take away anything from what Christ has done."

The above quoted statement I find very interesting indeed.

There are many people that when presented with a teaching that "obedience to God is mandatory" it triggers in the mind a defence mechanism that such a required condition is somehow infringing on what Jesus Christ has done.

This begets the question of exactly what did Jesus Christ do?

My understanding is that Jesus died on our behalf so that we can die with Him. That Jesus is the High Priest whose blood enjoins us into a covenant with God. A covenant by which, upon entering into, we are washed clean of our past transgressions having had our hearts been made pure through our faith. There is nothing "positional" about it and thus the "conditions" upon entering into this covenant in no way detract from Jesus shedding His blood on our behalf.

The early church taught a very simple message.

Polycarp 2:1
Wherefore gird up your loins and serve God in fear and truth,
forsaking the vain and empty talking and the error of the many, for
that ye have believed on Him that raised our Lord Jesus Christ from
the dead and gave unto him glory and a throne on His right hand;
unto whom all things were made subject that are in heaven and that
are on the earth; to whom every creature that hath breath doeth
service; who cometh as judge of quick and dead; whose blood God
will require of them that are disobedient unto Him.

Polycarp, Letter to the Philippians.


Obedience to God was ALWAYS connected to BELIEVING in the early church. Believing was obeying. Not obeying the rules, rituals and regulations of the old covenant. Rather it was simply obeying righteousness from a heart led by the grace of God.

Polycarp 2:2
Now He that raised Him from the dead will raise us also; if we
do His will and walk in His commandments and love the things which He
loved, abstaining from all unrighteousness, covetousness, love of
money, evil speaking, false witness; not rendering evil for evil or
railing for railing or blow for blow or cursing for cursing;

The context of obedience to God was never in regards to having to go and get circumcised or to stop eating pork. Rather it was in simply "doing the right thing" from the heart. In other words "loving God" and "loving your neighbour." Never was the "requirement to do the right thing by a faith that works by love" spoken ill of as adding to the finished work of Christ.

 

[Skinski7]

Righteousness is by faith because...


FAITH = FAITHFULNESS


If an individual is faithful to God and therefore abiding in His will then the result will be manifest righteousness. Hence we are made the righteousness of God IN Him.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus, who knew no sin, was to be made sin for us. What does that mean? Is sin a substance? Did Jesus turn into some substance called sin? No! Sin is rooted in the exercise of the will. Sin is choosing to act in accordance with self outside of the will of God, hence sin is simply disobedience to God rooted in selfishness. Jesus was made to be sin for us in the sense that Jesus was the spotless "sin offering" whose blood it is that enjoins us into a New Covenant with God. The New Testament was dedicated with the blood of Christ therefore giving us the opportunity to be reconciled to God through the New Covenant. Hence Paul's plea...

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

God through Paul is inviting people to be reconciled to Him through Jesus Christ. If one is IN CHRIST then one is made the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM and is therefore a NEW CREATION. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, abstract or positional about it. The transformation is a total transformation of the heart. The result of the New Covenant is a CLEAN and PURE HEART.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

We are made the righteousness of God IN Him when we forsake our rebellion to God and therefore "work together" with God. If that does not happen then the grace of God is received in vain. In other words nothing happens. God is the author of the salvation of those who obey Him because those who obey work together with God and are therefore abiding IN Him and resulting in TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS.




On the other hand when people approach God thinking that the righteousness of Jesus is credited to their account simply because they "trust in the finished work of the cross" and thus believe that their "righteousness" is PURELY POSITIONAL then it totally negates the TRANSFORMATION OF HEART from being in a state of self serving iniquity to being in a state of loving purity. It throws the true purpose of God's plan right out the window and replaces it with a mental notion.

If Satan can convince an individual that they are saved when they are not then he has defeated that individual because that individual is them immunised against the real deal.

 

[brmicke]

On the other hand when people approach God thinking that the righteousness of Jesus is credited to their account simply because they "trust in the finished work of the cross" and thus believe that their "righteousness" is PURELY POSITIONAL

then it totally negates the TRANSFORMATION OF HEART from being in a state of self serving iniquity to being in a state of loving purity. It throws the true purpose of God's plan right out the window and replaces it with a mental notion.

If Satan can convince an individual that they are saved when they are not then he has defeated that individual because that individual is them immunised against the real deal.

Great point Brother!

 

[konroh]

In Romans 4, Abraham had faith in God that He would keep His promise, and that faith caused God to "impute, reckon, credit" it to Abraham as righteousness. This was a positional righteousness. It doesn't say Abraham had righteousness so God imputed righteousness, it says Abe had faith so God imputed righteousness. Theologically we understand that the Christian believer has been imputed Jesus' righteousness.

Of course it shouldn't end there, that's why Paul says in Rom 6:1 "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" In other words, I'm positionally righteous, why should I worry about being practically righteous. I don't think that any Christian, fully recognizing the grace God has given, wants to give nothing. But the extent to which we are continually saved from the power of sin in our lives (practical righteousness) in no way adds or takes away the extent to which we have been positionally declared righteous.

 

[Skinski7]

In Romans 4, Abraham had faith in God that He would keep His promise, and that faith caused God to "impute, reckon, credit" it to Abraham as righteousness. This was a positional righteousness. It doesn't say Abraham had righteousness so God imputed righteousness, it says Abe had faith so God imputed righteousness. Theologically we understand that the Christian believer has been imputed Jesus' righteousness.

Of course it shouldn't end there, that's why Paul says in Rom 6:1 "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" In other words, I'm positionally righteous, why should I worry about being practically righteous. I don't think that any Christian, fully recognizing the grace God has given, wants to give nothing. But the extent to which we are continually saved from the power of sin in our lives (practical righteousness) in no way adds or takes away the extent to which we have been positionally declared righteous.

The text does not say that anyone is imputed the righteousness of Jesus. The text actually says that God reckoned "faith as righteousness."

Look at what the text actually says...

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Abraham believed and trusted in God and therefore did what God commanded him to do.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

See the actual dynamic in play here? Abraham yielded himself to the will of God. True faith is yielding to God because one trusts God. This is why Paul writes...

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Can you see how Paul alludes to the "steps of faith" as being part of the faith that God reckons as righteousness? True faith is working together with God, it is cooperating with God, it is obeying God from the heart. Obedience and faith cannot be disconnected. If there is no obedience then there is no faith.

Paul is teaching in Romans 4 that the way that God reckoned Abraham as righteous is the same way that He reckons us as righteous and that is by FAITH. The text says nothing of the "righteousness of Christ" being credited to our account. That notion is read into the text by theologians who hold a preconceived doctrine above the plain words of the Bible.

This connection between faith and obedience is why James states...

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Genuine faith manifests the works of faith. Faith is simply the dynamic of yielding to God whereby we are doers of the will of God.

When Paul writes the following...

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

He is quoting David. Basically no individual can be reckoned righteous before God if their sins have not been cleansed. That is why the imputation of righteousness is apart from works. If it was by works then the guilt would remain because we are all guilty. There is nothing a sinner can do to become unguilty so to speak. Hence the need for the cleansing.

The cleansing is conditioned on having an upright heart which is why David would write...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Blessed is the man in whose spirit there is no guile. The removal of guile from the heart is through a genuine repentance experience which is where the axe is laid to the root of iniquity in the heart.

Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

God wants a broken and contrite heart in His people.

Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

It is with a broken and contrite heart that we can approach God with a true heart (Heb 10:22) and thus be cleansed.



This notion of a "positional righteousness of Christ" being credited to a sinner because they "trust in the cross" is an extremely dangerous doctrine because it completely negates the transformation that occurs in the genuine new birth experience.

Under the deception an individual finds a false assurance of salvation whilst their heart is still full of guile. This is why the rebellion to God never stops under the deception. These people are counting that God is going to judge them by the deeds of Jesus at the judgement. The truth though is that God is going to judge them by their own deeds because there is no positional cloak consisting of the righteousness of Christ. It is a myth. A very dangerous and deceptive myth.

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

DEEDS! Your deeds prove your faith.

 

[Skinski7]

Of course it shouldn't end there, that's why Paul says in Rom 6:1 "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" In other words, I'm positionally righteous, why should I worry about being practically righteous. I don't think that any Christian, fully recognizing the grace God has given, wants to give nothing. But the extent to which we are continually saved from the power of sin in our lives (practical righteousness) in no way adds or takes away the extent to which we have been positionally declared righteous.

You say "in other words, I'm positionally righteous, why should I worry about being practically righteous." Those "other words" have nothing to do with what Paul is teaching in Rom 6:1. Let's take a look shall we...

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.Rom
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Paul makes a statement in Rom 5:20 that when sin was abounding that the grace of God was abounding even more. The the rhetorical question in Rom 6:1 is within the context of should we keep on sinning that the grace of God abound even more?

Paul says no way because if we have indeed been baptised into the death of Christ where our "old man is crucified" and the "body of sin is destroyed" then we henceforth no longer "serve sin."

The service of sin is broken when we die with Christ. We are raised up as servants of righteousness. When we die with Christ we are set free from serving sin. There is NOTHING positional about it. Paul is not teaching a positional imputation of righteousness set apart from actual manifest righteousness. In fact Paul repudiates such an idea by writing...

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Whom we MANIFESTLY serve reveals whom we belong to. If we serve sin then we are a slave of sin. Look at verse 17 where Paul writes that being set from sin is due to obeying from the heart the doctrine they have been presented with.



I encourage people to read the entire book of Romans apart from any commentary and just plainly accept what it teaches.

Deceptive false teaching is promulgated by excising select verses from their surrounding context and fluffing it out with rhetoric. The quoted text at the top of this post is the perfect example of this. A verse is quoted then a statement is made that has nothing to do with the context of the verse. In fact the statement teaches the direct opposite of the text.

Be very careful. Be very diligent.

 

[Skinski7]

Grace is not a cloak for ongoing iniquity. Grace gives us the opportunity to be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ whereby we are made righteous in Him.

God did not send Jesus to be a "sin cloak" through which God can justify those whom are still wicked. God sent Jesus in order to rescue sinners from their dire state of enslavement to sin in which they are dead to God. Not only are we forgiven our past transgression through Jesus Christ, we are redeemed from committing future transgression through the transformation of heart which is part and parcel of authentic salvation.

God bless.

 

[svedbygrace]

notu

Ps 32:2 Speaks of the man who is blessed because God does not impute to him iniquity.

Yes, and that applies to a world of People 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[brmicke]

In Romans 4, Abraham had faith in God that He would keep His promise, and that faith caused God to "impute, reckon, credit" it to Abraham as righteousness. This was a positional righteousness. It doesn't say Abraham had righteousness so God imputed righteousness, it says Abe had faith so God imputed righteousness.

Rm 4:9 says that by having "Faith" in God Abraham was doing (by using the word did it suggests that Abraham did a "work"- by the way) what God wanted, and God approved and said that what He did was right.

The condition called righteousness in not an abstract cloke a person puts on, it is simply doing the right thing in the sight of God, or doing what is right in God's eyes. He who does what is right is righteous -

Ac 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (referring here to Jesus) is righteous

Theologically we understand that the Christian believer has been imputed Jesus' righteousness.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2Co 6:1 ¶ We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Even though there is a chapter separation between 2 Cor 5:21 and 2 Cor 6:1, there is a continuation of thought.

The way we are made or transformed into a righteous condition in the sight of God is through Gods grace. Scripturally Titus 2:11-12 teaches a person to abstain from ungodliness.

A Christian has to have "Faith" to access Grace.
Grace saves us from God's wrath which is visited against ungodliness (Rm 1:18) by teaching a Christian how to abstain from ungodliness, (titus 2:11-12).

If a person receives the Grace of God in vain they simply refuse to learn the lessons about abstaining from ungodliness.
Which unfortunately means that they will not be transformed into the a person who does the right thing in God's sight as of course Jesus did in every situation. They will not partake of Jesus righteousness because they refuse to abstain from ungodliness.

 

[svedbygrace]

notu

Grace imputes to the believer Gods righteousness. 2 Cor 5:21.

Actually Grace imputes Righteousness to the Ungodly. Rom 4:5-6

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 

[Skinski7]

notu



Actually Grace imputes Righteousness to the Ungodly. Rom 4:5-6

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Ungodly in the context that we are all guilty of sinning. Not in the context of having a heart that is still full of guile.

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

If righteousness was purely based on our deeds then we could never be reckoned righteous because we are indeed guilty of sin. Being obedient in the present cannot undo disobedience done in the past. God is willing to forgive our past transgression and is thus willing to reckon our faith as righteousness. God reckons present faithfulness from the heart as righteousness.

The state that matters is our "present state."

Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


Paul is quoting Psalm 32 in in Romans 4. Romans 4:5-6 is not written in a vacuum. Romans 4:5-6 is written in the context of all of the book of Romans, the words of Jesus, Psalm 32 as well as everything else Paul wrote.

In Revelation it says this...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Righteousness and deeds are connected. Filthiness and deeds are connected. It is deeds which prove genuine faith.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

That is why...

FAITH = FAITHFULNESS.

UNFAITHFULNESS = DISOBEDIENCE

When Paul preached repentance he taught...

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Repent and turn to God and DO works worthy of repentance. Why does he say that? Because "deeds prove repentance." If an individual's deeds are still wicked then their deeds prove that they did not truly repent.

 

[brmicke]

Rm 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without (or apart from) works,

"Works" are not wrong, unless they are the Mosaic works of the Law that Jesus replaced with His own life's blood. The works must be accompanied by a Love for God because faith works by Love, Gal 5:6.

Ga 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Doing "works of Faith" is not wrong - however God requires that a person have faith in Him in order to please Him. Hence the term - works of faith, 1 Thess 1:3 and 2 Thess 1:11.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2Th 1:11 ¶ Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: {count: or, vouchsafe} (KJV)

 

[konroh]

I can appreciate and understand your fervency. I agree that God wants us to be faithful to Him. He wants us not to be slaves to sin, and He's given us a new heart to do so. But faith does not equal faithfulness or obedience, either biblically or practically. After Abraham was justified by faith, he still lied about His wife, married Hagar, and was unfaithful to God in many ways. He was also obedient to God by sacrificing His son Isaac, but that was actually after a 25 year walk of faith to God where Abraham was finally able to demonstrate complete obedience to God's command. We both agree that God rewards faithfulness and punishes wickedness, but any believer is in a process of obedience/disobedience that doesn't negate his or her initial faith in God that is credited as righteousness. Romans 2 is a beautiful passage about the rewards God gives, but this is written to Christian believers!

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

After this Paul gives the process of this, having faith that justifies you, a mouth that confesses that delivers you practically, a body that you submit as an instrument of righteousness and submit on the alter as an acceptable sacrifice, a mind to be transformed and all this will reap glory, honor, immortality and qualitative eternal life. I would submit that the way Paul uses the term "eternal life" here is different than John 3:16, where the initial gift of faith is in view. However it's not different from the way John says in John 17:3 that eternal life is knowing God and Jesus Christ. There is a beginning, middle and end to eternal life. We have eternal life by faith, (we are justified and declared righteous), we have eternal life presently by knowing God and Jesus, and we will have eternal life in the future by being in heaven and being delivered from God's wrath.

 

[Skinski7]

Thank you for your response.

I can appreciate and understand your fervency. I agree that God wants us to be faithful to Him. He wants us not to be slaves to sin, and He's given us a new heart to do so. But faith does not equal faithfulness or obedience, either biblically or practically. After Abraham was justified by faith, he still lied about His wife, married Hagar, and was unfaithful to God in many ways. He was also obedient to God by sacrificing His son Isaac, but that was actually after a 25 year walk of faith to God where Abraham was finally able to demonstrate complete obedience to God's command.

Faith is the dynamic of doing. If there is one thing that I think is key in regards to understand it is that faith is the dynamic of doing in the Bible. Doing the will of God is a fruit of inward conviction in the truth of God whereby one truly trusts God. Hence faith is the substance of things hoped for made evident by that which is not seen.

Faith is the engine of action fueled by God's grace.


Yes it is true that Abraham lied about his wife, yet was such a deed an act of rebellion to God? Not at all, Abraham lied out of concern of his wife.

Gen 12:11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:
Gen 12:12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
Gen 12:14 And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.
Gen 12:15 The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.
Gen 12:16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
Gen 12:17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
Gen 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
Gen 12:19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.
Gen 12:20 And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.

When Abraham lied was his heart full of guile or was he upright in heart? God looks further than outward appearances and looks at the intent. Likewise when Abraham married Hagar was he being unfaithful to God? Abraham had been promised a seed and Sarah was barren and thus when Sarah wanted Abraham to have a child he was agreeable. Abraham did not understand that God would grant Sarah the gift of a child in her old age.

Are we to use these examples as doctrinal evidence for the notion of being reckoned righteous our hearts are full of wickedness? To do so is to be very disingenuous to the context of the Bible.

Remember the key point I brought up in my first post that an "upright heart" and the "imputation of righteousness" are connected in the Bible. An upright heart will not knowingly choose evil. An upright heart may err in understanding leading to a wrong action but such an action is not rooted in guile.

A righteous man fall many times yet they will stand back up and proceed on. If a righteous person is to do wickedly then by definition they are no longer righteous.

God does not impute wicked people as righteous. God imputes former wicked people (whom are guilty of sinning) as righteous by their faith. A faith that walks in the steps of Abraham and a faith that is fully persuaded in the truth of God like the faith of Abraham, a faith that obeys like Abraham, a faith that does the deeds of faith like Abraham.

We both agree that God rewards faithfulness and punishes wickedness, but any believer is in a process of obedience/disobedience that doesn't negate his or her initial faith in God that is credited as righteousness. Romans 2 is a beautiful passage about the rewards God gives, but this is written to Christian believers!

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

After this Paul gives the process of this, having faith that justifies you, a mouth that confesses that delivers you practically, a body that you submit as an instrument of righteousness and submit on the alter as an acceptable sacrifice, a mind to be transformed and all this will reap glory, honor, immortality and qualitative eternal life. I would submit that the way Paul uses the term "eternal life" here is different than John 3:16, where the initial gift of faith is in view. However it's not different from the way John says in John 17:3 that eternal life is knowing God and Jesus Christ. There is a beginning, middle and end to eternal life. We have eternal life by faith, (we are justified and declared righteous), we have eternal life presently by knowing God and Jesus, and we will have eternal life in the future by being in heaven and being delivered from God's wrath.

Romans 2:7-8 are very matter of fact verses. What we do matters. Paul presents two options...

1. Patiently continue in doing good, seeking for glory, honour and immortality.
2. Refusing to obey the truth by obeying unrighteousness.

Paul is not speaking of any process in the context of "disobeying less and obeying more." Paul is speaking in the context of "doing right from the heart." Which is why he makes this statement in Romans 6:17...

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Being IN Christ means actually being set free from the service of sin. It is not something that happens later. The dynamic of entering into Christ results in being set free from sin. Then the growth in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ begins. Then the perfecting of the saints begins.

Obedience from the heart does not equal perfection. What it does mean is an end to rebellion. Thus the new born babe can grow to a full understanding.

Many err in perceiving a "gradual" cleansing of inward iniquity in which one is "positionally righteousness" but "practically still wicked." The danger of this way of thinking is that it subverts the purpose of repentance and hence the death of the old man. The old man is not gradually crucified, it happens once and for all in repentance and the result is a genuine conversion from which one is then spiritually made alive.

Those who believe that their "inward wickedness" will one day be purged out of them are stuck in a sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent cycle where they "wait on God" to change them. They do not realise that the transformation is not some magical event that will just take place one day. Inward purity is resultant of "yielding to God wholeheartedly" and unless one does that then they will NEVER be purified.

Satanic theology attacks the underlying fundamentals of repentance and faith in order to present another way into the kingdom. A way which has the appearance of granting entrance whilst one is still inwardly wicked.