7th.Day Sabbath and Holy Days:

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sparkman

Guest
#61
#61
JaumeJ said:
The following response applies here also.

Mankind has been given the Seventh Day as a gift of rest commemorating God's work creating all that is, including us. Because I am born in the 20th century does not exclude me from having been created, so I honor my Dad by recognizing what He has done for me, for you, for all.

As concerning this label, Sabbath Keeper, do not use it, because it has nothing to do with keeping the law, it is a matter of love, appreciation and respect; do not twist those virtues into being "under the law." Learn appreciation, and you will find yourself thankful for all God has done.
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If you claim observance is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, or that those who are non-observers are in sin, then you are the type of person I'm warning against. If you are not, then I have no issue with you.

Regarding words, some don't like the word Sabbatarian, so I don't use it. Now you are telling me Sabbathkeeper isn't a proper word to use. If I tried to satisfy all of you guys it would be impossible.

If you want me to use Judaizer, perhaps that would be appropriate, especially if the person fits into the category above.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#62
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
#62
Pay attention to the posts you reply to, and understand the content.
sparkman said:
If you claim observance is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, or that those who are non-observers are in sin, then you are the type of person I'm warning against. If you are not, then I have no issue with you.

Regarding words, some don't like the word Sabbatarian, so I don't use it. Now you are telling me Sabbathkeeper isn't a proper word to use. If I tried to satisfy all of you guys it would be impossible.

If you want me to use Judaizer, perhaps that would be appropriate, especially if the person fits into the category above.
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G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#63
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#63
sparkman said:
If you claim observance is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, or that those who are non-observers are in sin, then you are the type of person I'm warning against. If you are not, then I have no issue with you.

Regarding words, some don't like the word Sabbatarian, so I don't use it. Now you are telling me Sabbathkeeper isn't a proper word to use. If I tried to satisfy all of you guys it would be impossible.

If you want me to use Judaizer, perhaps that would be appropriate, especially if the person fits into the category above.
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I wouldn't use the term sabbathkeeper either.

Because there is no such thing.

Everyone has a different idea of what 'keeping' the sabbath supposedly is.

Some don't push elevator buttons on saturdays. And to them it is 'keeping' the sabbath.

Some think they are extra blessed by God by not going to work on saturdays. To them that is 'keeping the sabbath'. Unless they are part of the church, then it is ok for them to go to work and still 'keep' a saturday sabbath.

Its non-sense.

Keep the whole law perfectly or come to Christ. Be extreme...
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#64
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#64
Hebrews 7:15-18
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#65
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#65
freeman4 said:
How many here are 7th.Day Sabbath and Holy Day observers? Just curious and God Bless.
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not sure why you want to know this but I am and have been for many years , and just because I choose to observe the appointed feasts does not mean I deny our Savor, I am blessed each time I choose to obey the word rather then mans opinion of what it says , I see the enemy of our souls has managed to create a counterfeit for the true days the Father Himself choose for us to meet with and commune with Him, not to say that we don't do this everyday, we certainly should, but the days He choose are separate and special, so for me to knowingly follow a counterfeit day (not shown in scripture) is sin to me, and why would I not want to be there with Him on a day He choose? you see his people are empowered in special ways when they faithfully follow His teaching on the appointed days he choose to meet with us, the enemy knows this, and his plan is to separate us from the source of life and strength , and sadly he's been all too successful in doing so. if more would prayerfully study for themselves and be willing to humbly submit themselves to the truth, there would not be people attacking those are trying is the sincerity of the heart to be true to there calling. shalom
 
J

Josefnospam

Senior Member
#66
May 29, 2014
324
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#66
I rest in Christ and his finished works. It's so, so good to free and not have to keep anything or keep a certain law, to be in God's Grace. We are kept in his Grace by his power and might and it is forever. Thank God and rest in him brother, not in what you do. His blessings are beyond words, once he has truly given you his spirit. May god bless you as only he can do.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#67
#67
Yonah said:
not sure why you want to know this but I am and have been for many years , and just because I choose to observe the appointed feasts does not mean I deny our Savor, I am blessed each time I choose to obey the word rather then mans opinion of what it says , I see the enemy of our souls has managed to create a counterfeit for the true days the Father Himself choose for us to meet with and commune with Him, not to say that we don't do this everyday, we certainly should, but the days He choose are separate and special, so for me to knowingly follow a counterfeit day (not shown in scripture) is sin to me, and why would I not want to be there with Him on a day He choose? you see his people are empowered in special ways when they faithfully follow His teaching on the appointed days he choose to meet with us, the enemy knows this, and his plan is to separate us from the source of life and strength , and sadly he's been all too successful in doing so. if more would prayerfully study for themselves and be willing to humbly submit themselves to the truth, there would not be people attacking those are trying is the sincerity of the heart to be true to there calling. shalom
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The problem is that those who observe Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws try to convince everyone else that it's a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, and that they are living in sin.

They hold the minority position, yet try to disparage the rest of Christianity by teaching that they are observing paganism. I have studied Scripture and I don't arrive at the same "truth" that you've arrived at in regards to these things.

And, whether you agree or not, there are many verses that say the Old Covenant is not in effect. In addition, there are verses that say the Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws are not in effect. In addition, those who say they observe the Old Covenant aren't observing it completely. For instance, I have mentioned the laws regarding women during their monthly cycle. I don't see women being required to live outside of the home during this period, or furniture being thrown away as unclean if they sit on it.

I also know that the distorted version of history that Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meat followers present is not correct, and is slanted toward their doctrinal bias.

In addition, the root of most of these things is with the Armstrongites. The Hebrew Roots movement is basically an amalgamation of Armstrongites, Holy Name Movement, and Messianic Jews. Armstrongites are the biggest factor. William Dankenbring and Dean Wheelock (owner of the Hebrew Roots trademark) are ex Armstrongites.

The HRM goal is to press the rest of Christianity into accepting their doctrines. That generally is the goal of most of these types of groups. They know "the truth" and want to influence the rest of Christianity to join their bandwagon. Either that, or they want to proclaim their spiritual superiority and their supposedly higher level of knowledge of Scriptures as an open display of their contempt for them. They remind me very much of the prideful attitude of the Armstrongites.

I worship everyday, but Sunday services are perfectly appropriate, seeing as Jesus Christ died and rose again on Sunday morning, and since the centerpiece of Christianity is Jesus Christ and his sacrifice and resurrection. Christianity isn't called Christianity for nothing. Christ is the center of Christianity. Christianity is a universal faith, and we aren't ancient Israel.
 
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prove-all

prove-all

Senior Member
#68
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#68
Is said:
Where does the New Testament say the Sabbath is meant for the Church?
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the [feast] of unleavened bread the bible says to keep in the N.T.



-passover just started, after dark

22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it,
and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks,
he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24And he said unto them, This is my blood of [the new testament],
which is shed for many.

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine,
until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

-Jesus changed [the simbles] , not the passover holy day occurance.

we use wine now instead, we do not have to physicaly kill an animal.
still only happened once a year, no more sacrifices required, he is our priest.

1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
For even [Christ] our passover is [sacrificed] for us:

-passover was once a year, because of this act of Christs

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us [keep the feast],

-the bible tells use to keep [a feast], then he goes on to say how to keep it,

but he said to keep [a] feast day. this is the first day of unleavened bread.
another name is [the night to be most remembered] in the o.t.

not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and [truth].


-the deciples keep [feast of unleavened bread] after Christs death

Acts 12:3 (KJV)
And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also.
(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 20:6 (KJV)
And we sailed away from Philippi after (the days of unleavened bread),
and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#69
#69
Legalsim...is not obedience, faith is. "the law is not of faith" The Jews (even the believing Jews) that fought against the gospel of grace made the same arguments the sabbath folks are making now.
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#70
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#70
sparkman said:
The problem is that those who observe Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws try to convince everyone else that it's a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, and that they are living in sin.

They hold the minority position, yet try to disparage the rest of Christianity by teaching that they are observing paganism. I have studied Scripture and I don't arrive at the same "truth" that you've arrived at in regards to these things.

And, whether you agree or not, there are many verses that say the Old Covenant is not in effect. In addition, there are verses that say the Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws are not in effect. In addition, those who say they observe the Old Covenant aren't observing it completely. For instance, I have mentioned the laws regarding women during their monthly cycle. I don't see women being required to live outside of the home during this period, or furniture being thrown away as unclean if they sit on it.

I also know that the distorted version of history that Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meat followers present is not correct, and is slanted toward their doctrinal bias.

In addition, the root of most of these things is with the Armstrongites. The Hebrew Roots movement is basically an amalgamation of Armstrongites, Holy Name Movement, and Messianic Jews. Armstrongites are the biggest factor. William Dankenbring and Dean Wheelock (owner of the Hebrew Roots trademark) are ex Armstrongites.

The HRM goal is to press the rest of Christianity into accepting their doctrines. That generally is the goal of most of these types of groups. They know "the truth" and want to influence the rest of Christianity to join their bandwagon. Either that, or they want to proclaim their spiritual superiority and their supposedly higher level of knowledge of Scriptures as an open display of their contempt for them. They remind me very much of the prideful attitude of the Armstrongites.

I worship everyday, but Sunday services are perfectly appropriate, seeing as Jesus Christ died and rose again on Sunday morning, and since the centerpiece of Christianity is Jesus Christ and his sacrifice and resurrection. Christianity isn't called Christianity for nothing. Christ is the center of Christianity. Christianity is a universal faith, and we aren't ancient Israel.
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you have known and spoken with me for some time now and is it true to say I do not and will not compel others to do these things? and have I ever whether in text or verbally said that ones salvation is contingent upon observing these things? I think I express my thoughts and intents fairly clearly in my response to the op. that said it has never been a problem for me and the people I worship with to observe these things and we rebuke legalism and we correct those who mistakenly feel they are spiritually superior to others, we do however live (or do our best to) according to how our Savior lived, a true disciple learns not only from the words of hior her teacher but from their actions and character as well.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#71
#71
Yonah said:
you have known and spoken with me for some time now and is it true to say I do not and will not compel others to do these things? and have I ever whether in text or verbally said that ones salvation is contingent upon observing these things? I think I express my thoughts and intents fairly clearly in my response to the op. that said it has never been a problem for me and the people I worship with to observe these things and we rebuke legalism and we correct those who mistakenly feel they are spiritually superior to others, we do however live (or do our best to) according to how our Savior lived, a true disciple learns not only from the words of hior her teacher but from their actions and character as well.
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This is a fair response ..but I think its also wise to consider that Christ came as one under the law to set us free from the law and dependence upon things like days and festivals etc.. So its not really fair to say that because Christ came under the law we should follow His example in mosaic observance. In fact we know these things are called "weak" and "beggarly" in the epistles.
 
R

roaringkitten

Guest
#72
#72
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col 2:16-17

Worship is something one should do every day, regardless of whether he/she wants to choose a specific day to formally worship the Lord. Whether they want to have fellowship with believers on Sunday, Monday, Saturday, etc...is their own decision to be made. The Lord just wants people to worship Him in Spirit and in TRUTH, that is the biggest concern with the Lord!(John 4:23-24)

In regards to the Sabbath, we should first realize an important truth about a big portion of the OT:

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me." Luke 24:44

Jesus spoke that quote above! Even the Word says something remarkable about the law(which includes the Sabbath)

 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matt 5:17

Jesus is the object of what the OT system typified. We worship the Lord, He is the fulfillment of all the Mosaic law that no man could ever keep. Many of those who followed Jesus in the NT could not see this spiritual truth, they could only see a bunch of rules and the written ordinances as something to keep.


 
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S

sparkman

Guest
#73
#73
Yonah said:
you have known and spoken with me for some time now and is it true to say I do not and will not compel others to do these things? and have I ever whether in text or verbally said that ones salvation is contingent upon observing these things? I think I express my thoughts and intents fairly clearly in my response to the op. that said it has never been a problem for me and the people I worship with to observe these things and we rebuke legalism and we correct those who mistakenly feel they are spiritually superior to others, we do however live (or do our best to) according to how our Savior lived, a true disciple learns not only from the words of hior her teacher but from their actions and character as well.
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You are one of three individuals that are observers of these things that I respect and don't think you judge others for non-observance. HiddenInHim is one of the other two.

Pretty much, though, the rest of those I've encountered judge other Christians as inferior for non-observance...anyone else that I can think about right now.

I would include myself in that group at one time.
 
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