81% of Christians think Christianity is following rules in the bible

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen....those are clearly seen in Galatians 5:19-26

There is a difference between the "works" of the flesh ( which is something we "do" ) and the "fruit" of the spirit which is something that comes from the life of Christ in us and it is His fruit bearing in our lives. We can't conjure up love from our own flesh.

[/B]

This is a total mischaracterization to state that anything we do is a work of the flesh. Works of faith are something that we ourselves do, and they are of the spirit, not the flesh.

This idea that we don't do works ourselves, but only experience Christ in us doing works is a myth and a delusion. If our heart's not in it, and we are not doing it, it doesn't mean anything because we are only going through the motions.

 

[Willie-T]

ok. I think that set of rules thinking has become in (as a wide spread belief) because people got sick of the traditional christians (the ones that dont really care and just go to church on christmas and easter but really dont commit themselves to christ in any way) so there came this ''fire and brimstone'' teaching where preachers would force laws and hell down everyones throat with hope people are too scared to do wrong and walk step by step by the book (radical and legalistically) . And I think that this is why people think its all about rules. People dont get shown that its about love ,people mainly get slammed with :You will go to hell, you are a sinner! Repent!!
And rather than doing their own research people rather just accept something to have a excuse to not get into it i the first place.

I see. And, I agree. (I'm glad I didn't answer before. I honestly thought you meant something altogether different.)

 

[Demi777]

I see. And, I agree. (I'm glad I didn't answer before. I honestly thought you meant something altogether different.)

lol then I am glad I was able to clarify hugs

 

[FreeNChrist]

True.
And for the life of me, I cannot understand where so many people here, accusing brothers of such debauchery, drunkenness, and whore-mongering get that idea. Those things lost their appeal to me. Do those people, somehow, still long to do them, and therefore assume that we do too?

Exactly. What does the statement we always hear, "grace doesn't mean that you can just do whatever you want to do" tell us about what that person must want to do? LOL.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

True.
And for the life of me, I cannot understand where so many people here, accusing brothers of such debauchery, drunkenness, and whore-mongering get that idea. Those things lost their appeal to me. Do those people, somehow, still long to do them, and therefore assume that we do too?

That just tends to happen naturally with age. Not necessarily a working of the spirit.

 

[Willie-T]

That just tends to happen naturally with age. Not necessarily a working of the spirit.

But, it happened 40 years ago.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is a total mischaracterization to state that anything we do is a work of the flesh. Works of faith are something that we ourselves do, and they are of the spirit, not the flesh.

This idea that we don't do works ourselves, but only experience Christ in us doing works is a myth and a delusion. If our heart's not in it, and we are not doing it, it doesn't mean anything because we are only going through the motions.

Well, no. That's the humanistic lie of human potential. Good works are not just anything “we" decide are good works. Good works originate in and from Christ, done in His energy, with Him as the source. Those are the only works that are "good" and that have eternal value. All other works are merely wood, hay and stubble, suitable only for the fire. Those activities are what the Bible calls “dead works” (Heb. 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

Actually it's pretty simple. A born again Christian through water and Spirit will automatically do the things His Father loves and he will hate the things His Father hates. Your Spirit will hate the things your Father also hates. Yet, the flesh is weak and sometimes we give in to this and then we sin after the flesh. It is worse to sin after the Spirit than to sin after the flesh. For the flesh is dead as you also have died with Christ because you believe in His blood. Unfortunately, today there are many lost people out there who think they are Christian and love sin but are angry "they can't live the way they want because the Bible doesn't allow them to, can't do this, can't do that...". This is particularly the case when talking about relationships. In today's modern world, many proclaiming to be Christians fall in love with the character of someone of the opposite sex that is a complete atheist. Yet the Bible tells us there is freedom in Christ.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?
- 2 Corinthians 6:14

What Paul is saying here is that the believer doesn't have anything in common with an unbeliever (unless you want to talk about worldly things). They are spiritually completely the opposite of each other.

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
- 1 Corinthians 7:39

You are free to do whatever you want as a Christian, only in the Lord!

 

[Grace777x70]

Exactly. What does the statement we always hear, "grace doesn't mean that you can just do whatever you want to do" tell us about what that person must want to do? LOL.

It means IMO - that they do not understand the gospel of the grace of Christ yet. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and to walk righteously in this world. ...as Titus 2:11-12 says ( I wonder how many times now we have said this? )

And there is the fact that sin shall no have dominion over us because we are not under law but grace.

I say we need to preach and teach the unadulterated grace of Christ so that we can grow up in Him and manifest outwardly who we already are in our new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

It will be a product of His life living through and in us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren too. We don't do this to "maintain" salvation so that we can go to heaven - it's a by-product of His love being manifested. His fruit bearing on us - the branches.

 

[Grace777x70]

But, it happened 40 years ago.

Where you old 40 years ago?...

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, no. That's the humanistic lie of human potential. Good works are not just anything “we" decide are good works. Good works originate in and from Christ, done in His energy, with Him as the source. Those are the only works that are "good" and that have eternal value. All other works are merely wood, hay and stubble, suitable only for the fire. Those activities are what the Bible calls “dead works” (Heb. 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

Well said...and that is exactly the difference between works done in the flesh in order to "fulfill" the word of God and works that originate in Christ's life in us.

This can be seen in the life of Abraham - he tried to "fulfill" the word of God in his own self-effort -in the flesh and created an Ishmael. Despite his good intentions - it was did not originate from God.

God had to wait until Abraham and Sarah could not do anymore before the son born of the promise came by the power and life of God .

The Lord does not recognize what we do in the flesh even with good intentions to fulfill the word of the Lord. God said to Abraham " Take your son, your only son..." God did not recognize Ishmael - the son born from self-effort in the flesh.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"It is a stroke of satanic genius, and one of his most ancient devices, to persuade you piously to dedicate to God all that you presume to find good in the flesh, which God has condemned. " - Ian Thomas

 

[Grace777x70]

"It is a stroke of satanic genius, and one of his most ancient devices, to persuade you piously to dedicate to God all that you presume to find good in the flesh, which God has condemned. " - Ian Thomas

That is so true..here is one that you gave us last year that speaks volumes to us..thank you.

Quote:

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.

The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

 

[Gr8grace]

What's silliness? The belief that we can live like the devil, and still be saved? I agree.

Unfortunately, some people do believe that. On this forum. That's why I asked the question, so that others may know the full truth.

Then 90% or better of believers would lose their salvation. Because they are living like the devil.

The devil is not interested in getting us to sin and live in sin, the fact that we do shows his lack of controlling our sin nature, not his desire to have it that way.

Living like the devil~~Get your act cleaned up. Get this world cleaned up. Give the creature credit. Do it in your own power......independently from God the Creator. RELIGION,RELIGION,RELIGION........that is living like the devil and his ace trump.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then 90% or better of believers would lose their salvation. Because they are living like the devil.

Uh well, what's your point?

 

[Grace777x70]

Then 90% or better of believers would lose their salvation. Because they are living like the devil.

The devil is not interested in getting us to sin and live in sin, the fact that we do shows his lack of controlling our sin nature, not his desire to have it that way.

Living like the devil~~Get your act cleaned up. Get this world cleaned up. Give the creature credit. Do it in your own power......independently from God the Creator. RELIGION,RELIGION,RELIGION........that is living like the devil and his ace trump.

Amen...well said..and so true too...

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie. Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers or has just deceived genuine believers that are in Christin our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Gr8grace]

"It is a stroke of satanic genius, and one of his most ancient devices, to persuade you piously to dedicate to God all that you presume to find good in the flesh, which God has condemned. " - Ian Thomas

Bingo. This is THE lie. And very few see it.

 

[Gr8grace]

Uh well, what's your point?

That your living like the devil. Have you lost your salvation?

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

"It is a stroke of satanic genius, and one of his most ancient devices, to persuade you piously to dedicate to God all that you presume to find good in the flesh, which God has condemned. " - Ian Thomas

Bingo. This is THE lie. And very few see it.

Well said....and it is the believing in this very lie that makes us develop a works-based mindset of "doing good deeds/works" in order to keep our salvation and righteousness that is only found in Christ alone by His grace through faith.

 

[Gr8grace]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

"It is a stroke of satanic genius, and one of his most ancient devices, to persuade you piously to dedicate to God all that you presume to find good in the flesh, which God has condemned. " - Ian Thomas



Well said....and it is the believing in this very lie that makes us develop a works-based mindset of "doing good deeds/works" in order to keep our salvation and righteousness that is only found in Christ alone by His grace through faith.

And there is no way around it Grace777. If we think that salvation can be lost, in anyway.........we have fallen for satans lie and are working from the flesh. No if's,and's or but's about it.