Christians and military service

[Ecclesiastik]

If the USA had no military I imagine your country might still be a British colony, though you might now be divided as spoils between Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Have you considered this?

Yes, I have considered the consequences of not having a military. The Christians in biblical times had no military and were slaughtered mercilessly. Yet, they had faith in the Lord and it was enough. Is that not enough?

 

[Ecclesiastik]

LClark, are you against people serving in the military even if they do not wield weapons or etc?

If so, then how is fixing an airplane any different than being taxed and having your tax dollars going to repairing the plane?

 

[Cycel]

So weather you’re a Russian thanking God for your military, an American thanking God for your military, an Israeli thanking God for your military, an Iranian thanking God for your military or a German Cnristian in 1939 thanking God for your military you are thanking the same god [Satan]… and that god you are thanking is not Jesus Christ.

If when the peoples of a nation pray to God to assist them in war and they are actually answered by Satan, for his own purposes of course, it causes me to wonder if Satan might answer other prayers directed at God, if it serves his own purpose?

 

[LClark]

I don't suppose we would.

Do you have any more articles to read? The one you posted earlier was kind of choppy in its structure.

Yes, it was just an outline to set the context before reading Romans itself.

This page has a few links. At the top under Romans 13, there is a link to an excellent article by Dr. Preston Sprinkle of Eternity Bible College (Francis Chan). Also a link to a good video with an overview of the OT. and a link to "Two Swords."

 

[john832]

Blessings, John. You did much better than I did. I spent over 3 years in the Marines before I took CO as a Christian, serioiusly. [my draft number was 324].

You can read about my struggle with the free "Look Inside" feature on amazon [I just checked, and had thought the 'look inside' gave the whole of ch. 1. but it stops short. I'd be glad to send you the word doc.]

My number was 99.

As far as CO, I found it took a lot of courage to stand up for what one believes in. I endured much ridicule, just as I am sure you did. Being a CO has never been very popular.

 

[john832]

Are there any circumstances under which you think war is justified -- say for example the war against Japan that ended in 1945?

If there were, why does God say this about the Millenium...

Isa 2:4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.

And at the end of the Millenium...

Rev 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Notice who inspires this? And what the outcome is?

 

[Nick1939]

Hi Ecclesiastik , A Christian In The Military ? All Though Is A Sensative Subject , Yet I Will Venture To Give You The Scriptures, And You Do Your Math . Lets Start With Mat 5:43-48 How Can You Love Your Enemy And Chop His Head Off; Mat 26:46 Rom 12:17-21 2 Cor 10:4-5 Ephes 6:12-17.. And I Am Asking The Question, Which A R M O R A Christian Should Wear;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 2 Tim 2:3-5 Again Whose Soldier A Christian Should Be;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Check This Out Carefully Lest You War Against The Lamb And His Army. Rev 16: 14 17:14 19:19 And Finally Rev 13:10, Now You Figure Out What Christ Has To Say On The Subject............ God Bless....

 

[timberdoodle]

commandment breakers will not inherit the kingdom of God

Then you are in trouble

 

[LClark]

Hi Ecclesiastik , A Christian In The Military ? All Though Is A Sensative Subject , Yet I Will Venture To Give You The Scriptures, And You Do Your Math . Lets Start With Mat 5:43-48 How Can You Love Your Enemy And Chop His Head Off; Mat 26:46 Rom 12:17-21 2 Cor 10:4-5 Ephes 6:12-17.. And I Am Asking The Question, Which A R M O R A Christian Should Wear;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 2 Tim 2:3-5 Again Whose Soldier A Christian Should Be;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Check This Out Carefully Lest You War Against The Lamb And His Army. Rev 16: 14 17:14 19:19 And Finally Rev 13:10, Now You Figure Out What Christ Has To Say On The Subject............ God Bless....

When speaking of armor and Christian soldier's, like Scripture, Charles Spurgeon was very careful to make his meaning plain:
[h=1]Spurgeon on True Christian Soldiers[/h]...Now with that caution, whatever I shall seem to say will not sound as though I loved or excused ordinary warfare—for nothing can be more abhorrent to the Christian man than wholesale slaughter.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Would you consider it to be presumptuous for someone to leave the military with a family and not a whole lot of education?

Or would you consider it to be trusting in the Lord?

 

[john832]

Would you consider it to be presumptuous for someone to leave the military with a family and not a whole lot of education?

Or would you consider it to be trusting in the Lord?

I have known those who did, and I considered it an act of faith, belief.

 

[LClark]

Christians Who Rejected Worldly Warfare



C. H. Spurgeon “I wish that Christian men would insist more and more on the unrighteousness of war, believing that Christianity means no sword, no cannon, no bloodshed, and that, if a nation is driven to fight in its own defence, Christianity stands by to weep and to intervene as soon as possible, and not to join in the cruel shouts which celebrate an enemy’s slaughter.”

Dietrich Bonhoeffer To believe the promise of Jesus that his followers shall possess the earth, and at the same time to face our enemies unarmed and defenseless, preferring to incur injustice rather than to do wrong ourselves, is indeed a narrow way.

More here:

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Christians Who Rejected Worldly Warfare

View attachment 68414


Dietrich Bonhoeffer To believe the promise of Jesus that his followers shall possess the earth, and at the same time to face our enemies unarmed and defenseless, preferring to incur injustice rather than to do wrong ourselves, is indeed a narrow way.

More here:

Thanks for the help. That's an ironic quote coming from Bonhoffer though

 

[Wanderers]

I disagree with the military because of the fact that they kill.

I understand that they are fighting for us but the bible doesn't have an exception clause to thou shall no kill.

God uses armies yes, but there is a difference between america doing in and Israel doing it (that is old Israel). They were the kingdom of God, and God cannot sin because whatever God does is righteous. If God then kills someone, or tells an army to, it is not sin. Our armies don't go to God to learn who to kill they just go.

So, the commandment from God says 'Thou shalt not kill except when I command it?'

In more recent history, had not Charles Martel turned back the Muslim armies at the Battle of Tours in 732 one could question whether Christianity would ever spread to Europe and thence onto the Americas. Certainly, many former provinces conquered by the Islam Imperialism have remained pretty much entrenched in Islam since their capture.

Is 2:3-4 gives a glimpse of a future where there will be no more war nor training for war. Meanwhile, each must do according to his or her conscience.

 

[LClark]

Thanks for the help. That's an ironic quote coming from Bonhoffer though

(I've got to remember my glasses. I thought that said "Iconic"! ) Whatever Bonhoeffer's role in the assassination plot of Hitler (and there are big questions about it) one might ask, did that succeed? Was it blessed by God?

In the end, Bonhoeffer was a blessing in God's name to his fellow prisoners, unarmed, defenseless and incurring injustice.

 

[tucksma]

So, the commandment from God says 'Thou shalt not kill except when I command it?'

In more recent history, had not Charles Martel turned back the Muslim armies at the Battle of Tours in 732 one could question whether Christianity would ever spread to Europe and thence onto the Americas. Certainly, many former provinces conquered by the Islam Imperialism have remained pretty much entrenched in Islam since their capture.

Is 2:3-4 gives a glimpse of a future where there will be no more war nor training for war. Meanwhile, each must do according to his or her conscience.

The commandment for us says do not kill. God isn't held to his commandments though, so when God says to do something, no matter what it is, it isn't sinful.

A sinful act is an act against the will of God. If God tells you to do something, and you do it, you have done his will.

God doesn't tell the U.S. to go fight.

Again look at every time a war or battle was condoned by scripture, they are all because God commanded it.

In Israel before every war that was not punished, they went to God and asked if they should go to war or not. If they did it on their own accord, it went poorly for them. If they listened to God it went well. Why? Because when God says something, no matter what it is, it isn't a sin.

On the subject that we must do according to our conscious, I disagree fully. Then YOU are saying what is right and wrong, while if we look at scripture, GOD is saying what is right or wrong.

God can make good things happen out of something sinful like the war you mentioned, doesn't by any means make it any less sinful. The ends do not justify the means to God.

 

[LClark]

By a fellow once-upon-a-time Marine.

A concise 10 minutes on Gospel Nonviolence - 'Resurrection' on Vimeo

 

[LovePink]

god you are thanking is not Jesus Christ.

Just seeing this. I haven't visited this thread since my last post the day it was started and I don't get notifications, unless someone likes my post, I see those when I log in. Anyway, goodness this thread is strange. As if, all the military is doing is killing & making war, in any country. The military has a place & purpose... and if any member is a child of God, then they most certainly are thanking and serving the Living God, that's why it's called protect and serve.

" And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord "


Think about this, Satan is the theologian of this worlds religious system, the influence behind the pulpits in the "house of worship", the wisdom of men, creates more soldiers of death & deathstyles that amount to nothing of virtue or honor. Churches don't even pay taxes and church goers can use donations as tax deductions. I have always found that strange. False gospels lead to hell, we should be concerned.

 

[Allin]

I work at the Lexington VA Hospital and meet a lot of 'the aftermath' from war. Those guys aren't very happy. I help in the D.A.V-- the Disabled American Veterans. They are suffering from all kinds of things, PTSD and anxiety usually being foremost. I think that when you consider that it's very rare that two nations ever are required to fight to reach a decision plus that war takes lives unnecessarily, war may start looking less necessary than it seems to be. I believe that if you take one hundred people who are pro-war and give them a battery of tests or questions that force them to think beyond all the propaganda that makes war seem like a viable option, over 50% of them will come out with different views on things. Lives are precious even if we no longer see it that way. Monkeys and other animals sometimes have to fight to settle issues; but we are humans. There is rarely ever a time when human beings must fight and kill in order to settle problems, issues, and disputes. Some would like to think differently, but we as a species are smarter than that.

 

[LovePink]

War is horrific. I deal will a lot of military families in my area. The military does a great deal outside of war. The people who serve our country, continue to do so even after the military. Fine citizens.