Should We Pray to Mary?
- Thread starter john832
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
hello john,
we must never pray to mary, I know that she was the mother of our great lord jesus, but she was a human like everyone of us, the bible says in 1 timothy 2:5 for there is one god, and one mediator between god and man, the man christ jesus.
mary is dead (but she is with god) but the only one who lives for ever is our lord jesus..
blessings
we must never pray to mary, I know that she was the mother of our great lord jesus, but she was a human like everyone of us, the bible says in 1 timothy 2:5 for there is one god, and one mediator between god and man, the man christ jesus.
mary is dead (but she is with god) but the only one who lives for ever is our lord jesus..
blessings
Asleep: dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
K
Mary would roll over in her grave if she knew people were praying to her!! She said, "whatever He tells you to do, do it." Obviously Messiah didn't tell people to pray to His mother. Any good mother would never want to steal her son's glory, Mary was a good woman and mother, faithful to the Lord, and not a god.
Work out your own salvation...
Have you ever prayed to or through Mary John? Are you considering it?
We are to preach the word in truth & hold forth the word of life. Not pit Christians against each other, because I assure you we all have some bad doctrinal beliefs that seriously need to be dealt with. But first, lets examine ourselves and remove false beliefs from our own hearts by the help & teaching of the Holy Spirit.
There is a spirit that likes to Influence us to hurt the conscience of others. You know why that is, it is because this type of offence causes a person who is lost or confused to shut thier eyes to the light of God and shut thier ears to the word of truth. Let us be kind and understand the need of every person in Christ.
When I was a lost Christian, believing false doctrines, loving them, accepting them as truth with my heart... I remember what it was like to be offended for my beliefs. An honest person, who looks for the truth will find it with the right care & communication. I came to believe the gospel of my salvation, then began to work out the bad thoughts & false doctrine. Actually, I am still trying to understand some things of myself through study of God's word rightly divided. At the same time, I am growing in Christ. I rely on God's grace and know it is ok that I don't understand some things yet and it is best to go at a pace where I can see the direction of instruction.
God help us.
Have you ever prayed to or through Mary John? Are you considering it?
We are to preach the word in truth & hold forth the word of life. Not pit Christians against each other, because I assure you we all have some bad doctrinal beliefs that seriously need to be dealt with. But first, lets examine ourselves and remove false beliefs from our own hearts by the help & teaching of the Holy Spirit.
There is a spirit that likes to Influence us to hurt the conscience of others. You know why that is, it is because this type of offence causes a person who is lost or confused to shut thier eyes to the light of God and shut thier ears to the word of truth. Let us be kind and understand the need of every person in Christ.
When I was a lost Christian, believing false doctrines, loving them, accepting them as truth with my heart... I remember what it was like to be offended for my beliefs. An honest person, who looks for the truth will find it with the right care & communication. I came to believe the gospel of my salvation, then began to work out the bad thoughts & false doctrine. Actually, I am still trying to understand some things of myself through study of God's word rightly divided. At the same time, I am growing in Christ. I rely on God's grace and know it is ok that I don't understand some things yet and it is best to go at a pace where I can see the direction of instruction.
God help us.
Last edited:
K
I see your point, and I don't get pleasure in hurting anyone. On the other hand, what if Messiah is coming back this year? Nobody knows how many more years until then but we should live like it's today. Watered down truth and feel good preachers are doing no favors when you consider what's at stake. I do thank God I was never around spirit invoking or medium whatevers, or praying to dead people, and I certainly don't know how to go about telling somebody it's just plain wrong, without saying it's just plain wrong. I mean, how would you suggest gently guiding people away from this? We are advised in the Bible that people who pray to dead people might just be talking to the devil himself. It ain't child's play.
Why did Christ and the Apostles liken death to sleep...
Luk 8:52 Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, "Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping."
Luk 8:53 And they ridiculed Him, knowing that she was dead.
Joh 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Act 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Co 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
Eph 5:14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
1Th 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
2Pe 3:4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
Because just like sleep, death is a state of unconsciousness...
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks?
Psa 30:9 "What profit is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?
Psa 49:12 Nevertheless man, though in honor, does not remain; He is like the beasts that perish.
Psa 49:13 This is the way of those who are foolish, And of their posterity who approve their sayings. Selah
Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; Death shall feed on them; The upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; And their beauty shall be consumed in the grave, far from their dwelling.
Psa 88:11 Shall Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or Your faithfulness in the place of destruction?
Psa 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor any who go down into silence.
Psa 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.
Ecc 9:4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.
What was the hope the Apostles preached?
Act 4:1 Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them,
Act 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Act 17:18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, "What does this babbler want to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods," because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."
Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!"
Act 24:15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
The resurrection was Paul's hope...
Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
Php 3:11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
It is taught as one of the basic doctrines...
Heb 6:2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And it is when those in Christ receive eternal life...
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
The resurrection of the dead is the hope of a Christian.
As for II Pet 1:14
2Pe 1:14 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.
Peter knew he would die, put off this mortal life, shortly after saying this. Does this mean he was resurrected immediately?
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."
1Co 15:55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING? O HADES, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY?"
Happens at the last trump and the return of Christ, every man in his own order...
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
Luk 8:52 Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, "Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping."
Luk 8:53 And they ridiculed Him, knowing that she was dead.
Joh 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Act 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Co 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
Eph 5:14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
1Th 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
2Pe 3:4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
Because just like sleep, death is a state of unconsciousness...
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks?
Psa 30:9 "What profit is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?
Psa 49:12 Nevertheless man, though in honor, does not remain; He is like the beasts that perish.
Psa 49:13 This is the way of those who are foolish, And of their posterity who approve their sayings. Selah
Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; Death shall feed on them; The upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; And their beauty shall be consumed in the grave, far from their dwelling.
Psa 88:11 Shall Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or Your faithfulness in the place of destruction?
Psa 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor any who go down into silence.
Psa 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.
Ecc 9:4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.
What was the hope the Apostles preached?
Act 4:1 Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them,
Act 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Act 17:18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, "What does this babbler want to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods," because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."
Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!"
Act 24:15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
The resurrection was Paul's hope...
Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
Php 3:11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
It is taught as one of the basic doctrines...
Heb 6:2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And it is when those in Christ receive eternal life...
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
The resurrection of the dead is the hope of a Christian.
As for II Pet 1:14
2Pe 1:14 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.
Peter knew he would die, put off this mortal life, shortly after saying this. Does this mean he was resurrected immediately?
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."
1Co 15:55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING? O HADES, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY?"
Happens at the last trump and the return of Christ, every man in his own order...
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
The whole of the person. In fact, the original body is not raised in the first resurrection when Christ returns...
1Co 15:35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1Co 15:35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
That's right, so first we must take a precaution so that we do not find ourself in the position of playing the devils advocate. Then, if you find yourself in a position to share truth, which should always start with asking them what they believe about Christ & the gospel of our salvation. Then move from there to what the bible says about, salvation, intersession, access to grace, access to the Father, etc. Give them food for thought, show them love, which is the fruit of the Spirit. A lost person will always & only be true to their character, especially if offended. That is the evidence of self righteousness, offence for ones personal beliefs... they are not offended for God, but what they believe about God & their practics in their religion of choice.
Comma in the wrong place. Either that or the thief was in heaven before Christ making the thief the firstborn among many brethren...
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
So, more than three days and three nights later, Christ said...
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "
But if Christ was saying that the thief would go there that day, the thief would have been there more than three days and three nights before Christ. Rom 8:29 would not be true and if one passage is not true, you cannot trust any of it.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
So, more than three days and three nights later, Christ said...
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "
But if Christ was saying that the thief would go there that day, the thief would have been there more than three days and three nights before Christ. Rom 8:29 would not be true and if one passage is not true, you cannot trust any of it.
Im surprised they aren't any catholics to defend this or is it that there is nothing to defend?? Ive been to a catholic school and wow them people can argue over this for hours without rest...
I remember one time some father/priest person was defending this statement and saying they don't pray to Mary but acknowledge her and since she was the mother, asking or praying through her sorta validates your prayer or request...ok something like that...
Now I don't know if they know that there is no link between Mary and Jesus right now, that Mary was just a means by which Christ came through to earth in human form. It could have been anyone; Jessica, Christina, Katelyn, Phoebe...God looked down on earth and Mary just happened to be the one to find favour in His eyes...
Luke 1:30 (NKJV) "and the angel said to her, you have found favour with God." Note that the bold print is in the present form or tense. So meaning Mary's selection could have happened just before the angel was sent to deliver the message...whats my point? It could have been anyone...what's the derivation of my point? that if it was another virgin that found that favour, they would be saying O' hail Jessica/ Christina/ Katelyn/ Phoebe mother of God...today. But for we, we would still be saying PRAISE BE TO JESUS CHRIST!!! He doesn't change so it is Him only that should be prayed to like my brothers have already quoted 1 tim 2:5 Praying to any other becomes idol worship....
I remember one time some father/priest person was defending this statement and saying they don't pray to Mary but acknowledge her and since she was the mother, asking or praying through her sorta validates your prayer or request...ok something like that...
Now I don't know if they know that there is no link between Mary and Jesus right now, that Mary was just a means by which Christ came through to earth in human form. It could have been anyone; Jessica, Christina, Katelyn, Phoebe...God looked down on earth and Mary just happened to be the one to find favour in His eyes...
Luke 1:30 (NKJV) "and the angel said to her, you have found favour with God." Note that the bold print is in the present form or tense. So meaning Mary's selection could have happened just before the angel was sent to deliver the message...whats my point? It could have been anyone...what's the derivation of my point? that if it was another virgin that found that favour, they would be saying O' hail Jessica/ Christina/ Katelyn/ Phoebe mother of God...today. But for we, we would still be saying PRAISE BE TO JESUS CHRIST!!! He doesn't change so it is Him only that should be prayed to like my brothers have already quoted 1 tim 2:5 Praying to any other becomes idol worship....
This would have been a much better thread if it were about intersession. I am interested in opinions about the intersession of the holy Spirit of promise, which pertains to the doctrine of the "mystery of godliness"- encompassed in this verse;
26*Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
The word "itself" is important to doctrine, for the inner man of the new creation.
26*Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
The word "itself" is important to doctrine, for the inner man of the new creation.