Turning The Grace of God into Lasciviousness

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

Laodicea

Guest
#1
#1
Jude 1:4 KJV
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This text is talking about people in the early church turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. How did they do that? How are we in danger of doing the same thing?
 
L

LT

Guest
#2
#2
We keep ourselves from doing this by keeping our minds on Christ: remembering what He has done for us, is doing in our lives now, and looking forward to what He has planned!
Also by remembering that our Heavenly Father is holy and just, and that He is active in the world today.

Licence and lasciviousness creeps in when we forget that God disciplines His Children when they disobey, and/or when our focus is on our own desires/opinions/plans and not on Christ.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3
Laodicea said:
Jude 1:4 KJV
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This text is talking about people in the early church turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. How did they do that? How are we in danger of doing the same thing?
Click to expand...
The word lasciviousness carries the basic idea of (uncontrollable lusts) and in light of all the (RICH) T.V. evangelists who take the GRACE and MERCY of God and turn it into a $35 dollar a seat stadium ministry while having two or three multi-million dollar mansions kind of speaks to itself! Just saying that is...
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#4
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#4
That verse talks about unsaved people. They are called ungodly men who reject the Lord Jesus Christ. Unsaved people have grace too... This is not a verse that is talking about saved people sinning...
 
L

LT

Guest
#5
#5
ChristIsLord229 said:
That verse talks about unsaved people. They are called ungodly men who reject the Lord Jesus Christ. Unsaved people have grace too... This is not a verse that is talking about saved people sinning...
Click to expand...
It is talking about people who say they are saved, but continuing on sinning and even being proud of their sin, and claiming grace.

They are not saved, but are full of evil.
They were people who crept into the church, but were not truly a part of the Church.

Notice that the verse says "the grace of our God" not 'the grace of man'.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#6
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#6
LT said:
It is talking about people who say they are saved, but continuing on sinning and even being proud of their sin, and claiming grace.

They are not saved, but are full of evil.
They were people who crept into the church, but were not truly a part of the Church.
Click to expand...
Of course believers shouldnt do that either, but, they are unsaved because they dont believe on Christ, not because they are taking advantage of grace.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#7
#7
Jude 1:3-4 KJV
(3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
(4) For(because)there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice the previous verse talking about contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. The word for in verse four can also be translated as because. So we also need an understanding of what is the faith once delivered to the saints.
 
L

LT

Guest
#8
#8
ChristIsLord229 said:
Of course believers shouldnt do that either, but, they are unsaved because they dont believe on Christ, not because they are taking advantage of grace.
Click to expand...
You are correct, that these men were not saved, but the Scripture is warning the believers to not follow them. These men were claiming to preach the grace of God, but were instead preaching a false Gospel of licence to sin.
So the warning is not to the unsaved, but to the saved.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#9
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#9
Laodicea said:
Jude 1:3-4 KJV
(3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
(4) For(because)there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice the previous verse talking about contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. The word for in verse four can also be translated as because. So we also need an understanding of what is the faith once delivered to the saints.
Click to expand...
A lot of people fail to see that (the system of teaching) the faith was ONCE delivered unto the saints...When did Jude pen this? What does this say about ALL WHO CLAIM that they were delivered some new message (golden plates) by some angel or any other such (story) in this age and or after 95A.D.?
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#10
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#10
You can sin all you want and never lose salvation, i wouldnt recommend it though... You are saying you can lose salvation, right?
 
L

LT

Guest
#11
#11
ChristIsLord229 said:
You can sin all you want and never lose salvation, i wouldnt recommend it though... You are saying you can lose salvation, right?
Click to expand...
well if you are still sinning all you want, you aren't displaying any faith... which is a good indicator that you don't have any. Faithfulness does have to do with showing your faith by acting on it. Being a "doer of the Word" not only a hearer.
"If you are in the root, you will bear the fruit."
"By their fruit you will know them."

It is true that you can't lose your salvation, but God will certainly discipline you for your sin. There is no blessing on the path of sin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#12
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#12
LT said:
well if you are still sinning all you want, you aren't displaying any faith... which is a good indicator that you don't have any. Faithfulness does have to do with showing your faith by acting on it. Being a "doer of the Word" not only a hearer.
"If you are in the root, you will bear the fruit."
"By their fruit you will know them."

It is true that you can't lose your salvation, but God will certainly discipline you for your sin. There is no blessing on the path of sin.
Click to expand...
You displaying to others if you have faith or not has no impact on whether you actually believe on christ for salvation. According to men, a sinner living in sin may appear to not have faith. Does he? Likewise a person who appears holy may believe in work salvation and not even be saved... I know he will chasten us, ive been saying that and some people here have no idea what that means...

Also the fruit you bear is spreading the gospel. And If someone confesses they believe in faith alone for salvation I have every right to believe they are saved, unless they say otherwise, no matter how they act.

I like your cute bible rhyme, but what verse are you trying to quote? there are several verses on fruit, and people get the fruit of the spirit mixed up with the fruit of spreading the gospel...
 
L

LT

Guest
#13
#13
ChristIsLord229 said:
You displaying to others if you have faith or not has no impact on whether you actually believe on christ for salvation. According to men, a sinner living in sin may appear to not have faith. Does he? Likewise a person who appears holy may believe in work salvation and not even be saved... I know he will chasten us, ive been saying that and some people here have no idea what that means...

Also the fruit you bear is spreading the gospel. And If someone confesses they believe in faith alone for salvation I have every right to believe they are saved, unless they say otherwise, no matter how they act.

I like your cute bible rhyme, but what verse are you trying to quote? there are several verses on fruit, and people get the fruit of the spirit mixed up with the fruit of spreading the gospel...
Click to expand...
the fruit is Galatians 5:22-24.
The Root is Christ.
The quote was from Chris Gnanakan, sry I forgot to say who it was from, and for putting it side by side with Scripture.

Having faith and displaying faith are two separate issues.
But the Bible does say that those who are not displaying their faith (by following the call of Christ, which has many expressions including evangelism, the fruit of the Spirit, and holiness) are considered useless by God.
This call away from sin and towards the good works is not for salvation, but it is all about being useful to God once we are saved, and growing in maturity through the Holy Spirit.
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#14
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#14
LT said:
the fruit is Galatians 5:22-24.
The Root is Christ.
The quote was from Chris Gnanakan, sry I forgot to say who it was from, and for putting it side by side with Scripture.

Having faith and displaying faith are two separate issues.
But the Bible does say that those who are not displaying their faith (by following the call of Christ, which has many expressions including evangelism, the fruit of the Spirit, and holiness) are considered useless by God.
This call away from sin and towards the good works is not for salvation, but it is all about being useful to God once we are saved, and growing in maturity through the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
How often do you share the gospel with a stranger?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#15
#15
ChristIsLord229 said:
Also the fruit you bear is spreading the gospel. And If someone confesses they believe in faith alone for salvation I have every right to believe they are saved, unless they say otherwise, no matter how they act.
Click to expand...
In another thread you said that I could be a murdering Christian and still go to Heaven. Now, here you say that it does not matter how one acts, but as long as they say they are saved, then you believe them to be saved. Does not Scripture say that we shall know them by their fruit?

Well, let me tell you something here: don't be fooled, we ALL will have to answer for what we have done and do. And if you think we can walk in darkness and in the Light at the same time, then I am sorry to say to you: the one who hates has neither the Father nor the Son nor everlasting life.

You say that I can be a murdering Christian and still make it to Heaven? So you implied in another thread that we do not have to live a Godly live if only we confess faith in Christ....hmmmmm
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#16
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#16
cfultz3 said:
In another thread you said that I could be a murdering Christian and still go to Heaven. Now, here you say that it does not matter how one acts, but as long as they say they are saved, then you believe them to be saved. Does not Scripture say that we shall know them by their fruit?

Well, let me tell you something here: don't be fooled, we ALL will have to answer for what we have done and do. And if you think we can walk in darkness and in the Light at the same time, then I am sorry to say to you: the one who hates has neither the Father nor the Son nor everlasting life.

You say that I can be a murdering Christian and still make it to Heaven? So you implied in another thread that we do not have to live a Godly live if only we confess faith in Christ....hmmmmm
Click to expand...
Have you read the bible cover to cover yet? just curious.
 
L

LT

Guest
#17
#17
ChristIsLord229 said:
How often do you share the gospel with a stranger?
Click to expand...
I only did open-air evangelism once. I can only think of a handful of times that I've outrightly shared the Gospel verbally to a total stranger. I know that in my attitude and actions, the Gospel has been seen by strangers.

As for witnessing to those who I know, this is a daily activity. If I know them, I am burdened for the destination of their soul.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#18
#18
ChristIsLord229 said:
You can sin all you want and never lose salvation, i wouldnt recommend it though... You are saying you can lose salvation, right?
Click to expand...
Adam and Eve sinned and lost Paradise.

Satan and a third of the angels sinned and lost Heaven as their abode.

You preach a mighty good sermon of lawlessness......
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#20
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#20
LT said:
I know that in my attitude and actions, the Gospel has been seen by strangers.

.
Click to expand...
Explain that. People see the gospel through YOUR actions? and you know this? thats a bold statement when people here the actual word of God and still they reject the free gift. So, how do you show people the gospel with your actions? you take people sins upon you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.