Turning The Grace of God into Lasciviousness

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

cfultz3

Guest
#41
#41
ChristIsLord229 said:
So then he has to go through divorce again, and sin again to make it right? And where is the verses to teach this?
Click to expand...
If the man divorced someone and married another, then he is living in the sin of adultery. And these are his options:

1) He can continue to live in adultery and fall under 1 Cor 6:9, where it says that adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

2) He can repent from having started a walk on the path of adultery and return to the path leading to the Father, where his sins are forgiven and a deliverance from death is offered.

Consider: does his second sin, if he continues walking on the path of adultery, condemn him or does the first?

We can no more walk in a continuous state of contrariness to God's will than Adam and Even, Satan and the third of the angels, those before the Flood, those from the Tower of Babel, those who the children of another god, even those pledging their alliance to the beast. How much more than shall not the children of God obey Him!!!!

God is a God of Law. There is order to everything which comes forth from Him. Nothing is chaotic from Him. It says, and I would like for you to listen to what I am about to say, righteousness (having a right standing before God which is obtained by obliging the set rules of the path God has chosen His children to be led on) is obtained by hearkening to the Son and not the Law. If we disobey the Son, as the fallen Hebrews who never made it to the Promised Land, then we are not being lead by Him and shall not either be brought to the Promised Land. He is our Shepherd and the One who will led us to the Promised Land, but only if we hearken to His leading.

There is a Law from Jesus Christ and is the Law which is preached to us by His Spirit and that Law is love. If I walk contrary to that Law, then I would be hating. Correct? Now, please consider, would I be loving God if I did not hearken to Him, but say that I will go on a different path then the one He set up for the Son to lead on? This is not to say that we do not fall sometimes, but to magnify the notion that we cannot live in a continuous state of open rebellion and still say that we are being led by Christ, while we are yet in a continuous state of being a murderer, liar, thieve, or even a worshiper of another god. We have to turn back around to Jesus, otherwise we are still walking on a darkened path which Jesus is not leading on. May the Lord never led us into temptation. But, then again, He only leads to the Father :)

If we are not listening to Him as Lord (Master), then are we not listening to the fleshly master which leads away from the other Master, just as it did to Adam and Eve?

Would you now agree that we are to live pleasingly before God?
 
Last edited:
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#42
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#42
ChristIsLord229 said:
You can sin all you want and never lose salvation, i wouldnt recommend it though... You are saying you can lose salvation, right?
Click to expand...
No you can't sin all you want. Our Savior came to give us forgiveness and explain grace. Christ offers this to everyone. But we have a part to play in this, it isn't just given to anyone, murders, liars, drunkard, and such. Our part is in repentance of our sins. It is a reciprocal agreement, we have a part to play in it.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#43
#43
Many people get this confused. Grace is not a gift to sin. Paul takes care of this. If your are saved and born again, you are unplugged from the sin nature. You hate sin and try your best to avoid it, you no longer desire to sin as before you rolled in it played in it and enjoyed it. But, now you have been changed and detest it.

What happens is this, we begin to take our faith off of the cross and place in what we are doing and God will not accept that. Then we are plugged back in to the sin nature and are again bond by it. Even though we truly love the Lord. God will only accept faith in the cross and not law nor anything else.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#44
#44
Jude 1:4 KJV
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


The thing is that this verse is teaching there were people in the early church teaching that grace released them from keeping the law. Because the text says they turned the grace of God into lasciviousness. How did they do that? By their teachings.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#45
#45
Laodicea said:
Jude 1:4 KJV
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


The thing is that this verse is teaching there were people in the early church teaching that grace released them from keeping the law. Because the text says they turned the grace of God into lasciviousness. How did they do that? By their teachings.
Click to expand...
Yes these men crept in to the early church preaching law and circumcision. While the opposite is true law without grace is bondage. Grace or that is the cross, gives you the ability, by the Holy Spirit to keep the law and I mean the ten, It is impossible to keep the levitical law and it is impossible to keep the Decalog with out the Holy Spirit. What allows the Holy Spirit to work in us? The cross and nothing else, thats why it was and is so important. Thats why He came and why the Father sent Him. No man could keep the ten nor the one. Because if you break one you have broken them all. They were broken the moment they were given. The cherubim looking down on the ark, were looking at the broken law. But, when the high priest poured the blood of the lamb on it, all they saw was the blood. Christ and Him crucified is the gospel and should be the focus of our faith. Truth if is what is not of faith is sin. If place faith in anything other than the cross it is sin even if it is a good thing. Such as fasting, prayer, attendance, communion, helping the poor or widows or orphans. These things are the fruit of faith in the cross and not means of salvation nor deliverance. We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit only has the right to do so if our faith is in the cross and not our works.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#46
#46
Romans 6:1-2 KJV
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Yes grace is not a license to sin, we are saved by grace through faith for good works

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
L

LT

Guest
#47
#47
Laodicea said:
Romans 6:1-2 KJV
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Yes grace is not a license to sin, we are saved by grace through faith for good works

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Click to expand...
Yes and amen! These two passages show the balance of faith and works very clearly, with the agreement of the rest of Scripture.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#48
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#48
LT said:
We keep ourselves from doing this by keeping our minds on Christ: remembering what He has done for us, is doing in our lives now, and looking forward to what He has planned!
Also by remembering that our Heavenly Father is holy and just, and that He is active in the world today.

Licence and lasciviousness creeps in when we forget that God disciplines His Children when they disobey, and/or when our focus is on our own desires/opinions/plans and not on Christ.
Click to expand...
Uh, disobey what?
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#49
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#49
ChristIsLord229 said:
You can sin all you want and never lose salvation, i wouldnt recommend it though... You are saying you can lose salvation, right?
Click to expand...
MBFM!

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#50
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#50
LT said:
Yes and amen! These two passages show the balance of faith and works very clearly, with the agreement of the rest of Scripture.
Click to expand...
Wow... Youre lost bro. Id read romans and the rest of the bible again for that matter so you can understand ita by faith alone and its eternal, never to be lost. Youre putting a limit on grace and forgiveness, and adding works to balance the grace you dont understand. Me posting scripture will not help you at this point.
 
L

LT

Guest
#51
#51
john832 said:
Uh, disobey what?
Click to expand...
the commands of Christ

ChristIsLord229 said:
Wow... Youre lost bro. Id read romans and the rest of the bible again for that matter so you can understand ita by faith alone and its eternal, never to be lost. Youre putting a limit on grace and forgiveness, and adding works to balance the grace you dont understand. Me posting scripture will not help you at this point.
Click to expand...
i agree that it is by faith alone, and that it is eternal... where do you see me limit grace?
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#52
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#52
LT said:
the commands of Christ



i agree that it is by faith alone, and that it is eternal... where do you see me limit grace?
Click to expand...
The second you say a balance of faith and works, its double tongued. Its confusing to a reader. Not to me, its faith plus nothing, as the bible teaches. I think we had this convo when i first joined. Oh well..
 
L

LT

Guest
#55
#55
sry if the term caused confusion.

by 'balance', I was speaking of so many people saying that:
sin is normal and we can just accept our sin as OK because God will forgive it,

and the other side saying that:
salvation is faith + works, and every time you sin you lose your salvation, or once you are truly saved you'll never sin again

Balance speaks of how our salvation relates to our walk. The Gospel is not legalism, nor is it licence. It is something else entirely.
We are saved by faith in the work of Christ (His Blood), to the go and do good works (prepared in advance for us to do, and done through the help of the Holy Spirit).
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#56
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#56
Again, you are adding works. Salvation does not relate to our walk, our rewards in heaven and blessings on earth relate to our walk. NOT our salvation. Its really cut and dry. Salvation is a gift by grace and if grace abounds more than sin, how can sin effect salvation? It cant... Get over it and stop adding works to salvation kid
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#57
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#57
ChristIsLord229 said:
Again, you are adding works. Salvation does not relate to our walk, our rewards in heaven and blessings on earth relate to our walk. NOT our salvation. Its really cut and dry. Salvation is a gift by grace and if grace abounds more than sin, how can sin effect salvation? It cant... Get over it and stop adding works to salvation kid
Click to expand...
Your previous post was better, this is completely off base.
 
L

LT

Guest
#59
#59
ChristIsLord229 said:
Again, you are adding works. Salvation does not relate to our walk, our rewards in heaven and blessings on earth relate to our walk. NOT our salvation. Its really cut and dry. Salvation is a gift by grace and if grace abounds more than sin, how can sin effect salvation? It cant... Get over it and stop adding works to salvation kid
Click to expand...
read what I wrote again, and stop being so argumentative.
the word 'relate' doesn't mean 'depends upon'.
They "relate" because once saved, works are supposed to follow. Salvation is not contingent on works following, but that is what is supposed to follow.

Why are you misunderstanding me? Read more carefully.
 
C

ChristIsLord229

Senior Member
#60
Nov 10, 2013
266
1
0
#60
LT said:
read what I wrote again, and stop being so argumentative.
the word 'relate' doesn't mean 'depends upon'.
They "relate" because once saved, works are supposed to follow. Salvation is not contingent on works following, but that is what is supposed to follow.

Why are you misunderstanding me? Read more carefully.
Click to expand...
Im not misunderstanding you, im calling you out for being double tongued and unclear to the other readers. Im saved, i understand the plan of salvation as its taught in romans and elsewhere. This is for the other guests of the site, they need clear speakers or else just get off here and read the bible. Thatd be the best thing. Im off work today thats why im putzing around here. Oh the sin of idleness, forums...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.