How do I defend Matthew 16:28?

[Lecrae]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

 

[JDecree]

Theory: this was before the transfiguration on the mount, where only a couple of them were there to witness it

EDIT: actually reading the passage you quoted though destroys my little theory. Never mind.

 

[1still_waters]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Well we need to understand some old Testament terms.

We tend to hear "coming" language and assume it means when he comes to resurrect the dead.
But the Old Testament has another type of coming.
A coming of God in judgement.

God came in judgement of many nations in the OT.

I think that's what Jesus is referencing here.
Not the final coming to raise the dead, but a coming in judgement.

I believe that coming in judgement happened in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The temple was destroyed.

Those who ran the temple system were major enemies of Jesus.
They fought to have him crucified.
They lied about his resurrection.
So a clear sign that he wasn't overcome by them, would be when he came and destroyed their system through the Roman armies in AD70.

When he says they would see him coming in glory, what he means is they would perceive that he won against those who had ordered his death. With their system destroyed, they see that they had lost. Their lies about his non-resurrecting would be clearly perceived due to their destruction.

Their prophesied destruction would be verified, once they were indeed destroyed.

Jesus gave many indications that the very temple system he looked at would indeed be destroyed.

Luke 21
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said,6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

Matthew 23

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Jesus clearly prophecied the destruction of that very temple, and a judgment upon that generation. All which would be a sign of his glory, and that he indeed was on the throne, and wasn't defeated by those who crucified him, and denied his resurrection.

Daniel 7


13 “I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.





....
1 Peter 3

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Scripture clearly shows Jesus is at the right hand of God now, with all subject to him.
The AD 70 judgement fulfills Matthew 16:28.
They see him glorified over those who ordered his death, and denied his crucifixion.
He foretold it, and it was verified.
They could look back at his prophecy, see the destroyed temple, and know Jesus' words did indeed come true, as those who thought they won had clearly lost.

This all happened while some in that generation remained alive.

 

[1still_waters]

Theory: this was before the transfiguration on the mount, where only a couple of them were there to witness it

EDIT: actually reading the passage you quoted though destroys my little theory. Never mind.

Yeah the transfiguration being the fulfillment doesn't work.

It's not much of a prophecy to say...surely six days from now..some of you will not have tasted death.

 

[john832]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

They saw Christ glorified along with Moses and Elijah in a vision. It was not reality, it was a vision. Remember there were no chapters and verses in the original, so let's read on...

Mat 17:1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mat 17:4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"
Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
Mat 17:7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid."
Mat 17:8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
Mat 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."

It was a vision that Peter, James and John saw. They looked into the future.

 

[Bazman]

Well we need to understand some old Testament terms.

We tend to hear "coming" language and assume it means when he comes to resurrect the dead.
But the Old Testament has another type of coming.
A coming of God in judgement.

God came in judgement of many nations in the OT.

I think that's what Jesus is referencing here.
Not the final coming to raise the dead, but a coming in judgement.

I believe that coming in judgement happened in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The temple was destroyed.

Those who ran the temple system were major enemies of Jesus.
They fought to have him crucified.
They lied about his resurrection.
So a clear sign that he wasn't overcome by them, would be when he came and destroyed their system through the Roman armies in AD70.

When he says they would see him coming in glory, what he means is they would perceive that he won against those who had ordered his death. With their system destroyed, they see that they had lost. Their lies about his non-resurrecting would be clearly perceived due to their destruction.

Their prophesied destruction would be verified, once they were indeed destroyed.

Jesus gave many indications that the very temple system he looked at would indeed be destroyed.

Luke 21
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said,6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

Matthew 23

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Jesus clearly prophecied the destruction of that very temple, and a judgment upon that generation. All which would be a sign of his glory, and that he indeed was on the throne, and wasn't defeated by those who crucified him, and denied his resurrection.

Daniel 7


13 “I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.





....
1 Peter 3

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Scripture clearly shows Jesus is at the right hand of God now, with all subject to him.
The AD 70 judgement fulfills Matthew 16:28.
They see him glorified over those who ordered his death, and denied his crucifixion.
He foretold it, and it was verified.
They could look back at his prophecy, see the destroyed temple, and know Jesus' words did indeed come true, as those who thought they won had clearly lost.

This all happened while some in that generation remained alive.

Good comment never thought of that verse like that before.

 

[JDecree]

I wonder, was John the revelator there when Jesus said this? He was given a vision of the end

 

[nathan3]

I think it means, seeing Christ, in that upper room, as He is the King, of His kingdom: once he left that tomb glorified .
The one that wouldn't get to see Christ in that upper room, was Judah, because he was killed.

 

[1still_waters]

I wonder, was John the revelator there when Jesus said this? He was given a vision of the end

I was going to propose that as another interpretation.
Because he saw it, then those who heard and read the book, saw/perceived Christ coming in glory through the vision.

 

[KJV1611]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Believe what it says... the Kingdom came in Christ's time.

 

[4enlightment]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Paul didn't tasted death (Martyr) like Peter. But he has carried his cross.

The Martyrs of Japan were Christians who were persecuted for their faith in Japan, mostly during the 17th century.

[h=2]Contents[/h] [hide]​

• 1 Christianity in Japan
• 2 The 26 Martyrs of Japan
• 3 205 Martyrs of Japan (1597–1637)
• 4 The Great Martyrdom of Nagasaki (1622)
• 5 16 Martyrs of Japan (1633–1637)
• 6 Martyrs of Japan (1632)
• 7 Petrus Kibe Kasui and 187 Companion Martyrs of Japan
• 8 See also
• 9 Notes
• 10 External links

Martyrs of Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


History Of Asia Minor: 1894-1923During 1894-1923 the Ottoman Empire conducted a policy of Genocide of the Christian population living within its extensive territory. The Sultan, Abdul Hamid, first put forth an official governmental policy of genocide against the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire in 1894.
Systematic massacres took place in 1894-1896 when Abdul savagely killed 300,000 Armenians throughout the provinces. Massacres recurred, and in 1909 government troops killed, in the towns of Adana alone, over 20,000 Christian Armenians.
In Memory Of The 50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust

It's often claimed that 100,000 Christians are killed every year because of their religion. Earlier this year, the Vatican called it a credible number. But is it?
BBC News - Are there really 100,000 new Christian martyrs every year?




Matthew 2:18
“A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.”

 

[Laodicea]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Matthew 17:1-3 KJV
(1) And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
(2) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
(3) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

This is what Jesus was referring to. Moses represents all those who will be resurrected when Jesus returns while Elijah represents all those who will be translated.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The transfiguration is the second coming in type.

 

[Shilo]

[h=3]Matthew 17 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves[/h]Read the books of Peter, James, John, Moses, Paul and Daniel These men did see Yeshua coming in all his glory. If you follow the scripture as it goes from Matthew 16- to the first part of 17 this is about revelation. Then who was standing with Yeshua it was Peter, John and James read the books they have written by the Holy Spirit and you will find your answer.

 

[RedTent]

. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

What is wrong with saying that God hasn't given us enough information about this verse for us to positively know what it means? That is true of a lot of scripture, because our minds are different from the mind of God. I think that is a much better conclusion that trying to guess, for we aren't to add or take away from any scripture.

We are clearly told all we need to know to live with our Lord and Savior.

 

[dcontroversal]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Historically speaking, this was spoken by Jesus before he rode in to Jerusalem on a colt as found in Matthew 21:5 Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold thy King cometh unto the, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. Grammatically speaking this can fulfill what Jesus said as it is the announcement of the coming of the King and those who would have been standing around when Jesus said it would have been there to see this event as well.

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

I could be totally wrong, but I can share the way I always interpreted this, as it is a little different from what anyone else has said so far. Lets start at the beginning though,
1The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 2He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 3And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

So we all know Jonah forshadowed Christ by spending 3 days in the belly of the whale. The sign of Jonah, is Christ's resurrection from the dead. Anyway, the story goes on with Jesus asking the disciples who Christ is basically, and I always inferred that either that was the right answer, or Jesus just did his thing, but it says in chapter 21 it says " From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."

Then, after scolding Peter, he promises to return "in his Father's glory, and with his angels," but he doesn't say when. I think this was just a side note for their comfort.

So when the people that have not tasted death yet, see the sign of Jonah, as Christ is not only resurrected but appears in a glorified body and ascends or comes, into his kingdom.

Short answer, I don't think it had to do with the second coming, cuz he hadn't died the first time yet.
Also, I've been thinking lately about generations, and I think it could be more broad than we typically apply it. There are many things about the evils of the generation that are every bit as applicable today.

 

[dcontroversal]

I could be totally wrong, but I can share the way I always interpreted this, as it is a little different from what anyone else has said so far. Lets start at the beginning though,
1The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 2He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 3And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

So we all know Jonah forshadowed Christ by spending 3 days in the belly of the whale. The sign of Jonah, is Christ's resurrection from the dead. Anyway, the story goes on with Jesus asking the disciples who Christ is basically, and I always inferred that either that was the right answer, or Jesus just did his thing, but it says in chapter 21 it says " From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."

Then, after scolding Peter, he promises to return "in his Father's glory, and with his angels," but he doesn't say when. I think this was just a side note for their comfort.

So when the people that have not tasted death yet, see the sign of Jonah, as Christ is not only resurrected but appears in a glorified body and ascends or comes, into his kingdom.

Short answer, I don't think it had to do with the second coming, cuz he hadn't died the first time yet.
Also, I've been thinking lately about generations, and I think it could be more broad than we typically apply it. There are many things about the evils of the generation that are every bit as applicable today.

Historically speaking, this was spoken by Jesus before he rode in to Jerusalem on a colt as found in Matthew 21:5 Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold thy King cometh unto the, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. Grammatically speaking this can fulfill what Jesus said as it is the announcement of the coming of the King and those who would have been standing around when Jesus said it would have been there to see this event as well.

 

[posthuman]

I was going to propose that as another interpretation.
Because he saw it, then those who heard and read the book, saw/perceived Christ coming in glory through the vision.

John saw the transfigured Christ glorified too.

if the transfiguration doesn't satisfy you - the only objection seems to be that if this is the interpretation, there were only 3 men and a short time later - which to me doesn't sound like much of an objection; what He said is true in this case -

consider that many of those present would see the church of believers coming into being, would see pentecost, and would see the Holy Spirit being poured out on gentiles, and would have understood then the mystery revealed in Christ in the believing body.

when He says "coming in His kingdom" this can be read as "appearing in His kingdom" or "being made manifest in His kingdom"

one thing that might help us understand, if we consider what Christ prayed for just before He gave Himself to be crucified:

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(John 17:1-5)

and more:

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(John 17:22-23)

perhaps we err to think by what He said in Matthew 16:28 He meant His return in power to judge the world.
Do you think God the Father still waits to answer that prayer, or was Christ glorified at the cross?

 

[Laodicea]

It is also interesting that the transfiguration was 6 days later. The earth was created in 6 days then the 7th is the sabbath, a rest. The earth is 6000 years old and we all know Jesus will return soon. They also had a sabbath for the land every 7th year.

 

[Vernon]

I believe Jesus was speaking about the Transfiguration that only some of them were allowed to see.