How do I defend Matthew 16:28?

[john832]

My apologies if I have misunderstood.

Insteading PMing an apology, I will post it. I apparently misunderstood you and posted a false claim publicly, I now apologize and retract it publicly.

 

[2Thewaters]

That is righteousness by faith

 

[Bookends]

Well we need to understand some old Testament terms.

We tend to hear "coming" language and assume it means when he comes to resurrect the dead.
But the Old Testament has another type of coming.
A coming of God in judgement.

God came in judgement of many nations in the OT.

I think that's what Jesus is referencing here.
Not the final coming to raise the dead, but a coming in judgement.

I believe that coming in judgement happened in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The temple was destroyed.

Those who ran the temple system were major enemies of Jesus.
They fought to have him crucified.
They lied about his resurrection.
So a clear sign that he wasn't overcome by them, would be when he came and destroyed their system through the Roman armies in AD70.

When he says they would see him coming in glory, what he means is they would perceive that he won against those who had ordered his death. With their system destroyed, they see that they had lost. Their lies about his non-resurrecting would be clearly perceived due to their destruction.

Their prophesied destruction would be verified, once they were indeed destroyed.

Jesus gave many indications that the very temple system he looked at would indeed be destroyed.

Luke 21
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said,6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

Matthew 23

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Jesus clearly prophecied the destruction of that very temple, and a judgment upon that generation. All which would be a sign of his glory, and that he indeed was on the throne, and wasn't defeated by those who crucified him, and denied his resurrection.

Daniel 7


13 “I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.





....
1 Peter 3

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Scripture clearly shows Jesus is at the right hand of God now, with all subject to him.
The AD 70 judgement fulfills Matthew 16:28.
They see him glorified over those who ordered his death, and denied his crucifixion.
He foretold it, and it was verified.
They could look back at his prophecy, see the destroyed temple, and know Jesus' words did indeed come true, as those who thought they won had clearly lost.

This all happened while some in that generation remained alive.

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!

 

[miktre]

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Put here in context, has He really already given everyman his reward? 70 Ad doesn't 'ad' up

 

[miktre]

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Put here in context, has He really already given everyman his reward? 70 Ad doesn't 'ad' up

You really believe He already came with His clouds of angels and every man saw it?

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Mark51]

The transfiguration showed that Jesus had God’s approval, and it was a foreview of his future glory and Kingdom power. It also served to fortify Christ for his sufferings and death, while it also comforted his followers and strengthened their faith. The disciples saw, in effect, the “Son of man coming in his kingdom,” just as Jesus had promised a week earlier. (Matthew 16:28) After Jesus’ death, Peter wrote about having ‘become eyewitnesses of Christ’s magnificence while we were with him in the holy mountain.’ It also presaged the presence of Christ, when his kingly authority would be complete.

 

[crossnote]

The 70ad theory seems to go against the immediate context of v.27

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
************

This v.28 could be argued in favor of final judgement in light of...
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Thus none tasted death except Judas.

 

[directline2iam]

Some say that this was fulfilled by the Lord's transfiguration on the mountain (17:1-2). His transfiguration was His coming in His kingdom. It was seen by His three disciples - Peter, James and John.

Not so... If He was coming in His Kingdom, He had to be away to be coming, but alas, he wasn't away or gone like he was at the cross for 3 days and nights, rather He was still right there with His three disciples. The coming in His kingdom happened after his death and resurrection that is when he was coming, that is when He left and came back, that is when some standing there were on the verge of tasting death. That is when the Apostles started picking up their crosses. Jesus said many times the kingdom of heaven is at hand, like now. Not yesterday not tomorrow but at hand. He was with them coming and going for 40 days then 50 days later the HS was poured out on the sons and daughters step by step all in Fathers good time and order of things. But that's how I see it.

And someone mentioned Jesus saying at the transfig...tell no one of the vision. In plain English He said tell no one what you just saw. And it happened in real time right before their wittnessing eyes. It wasn't a future vision of things to come, it happened right then and there so that canx the transfig theory and also sheds light that Moses and Elijah were and still are alive in the kingdom and not sleeping as some consider laying in a tomb dead with no thoughts. Let God be God. Amen.

 

[doseofreality]

If you take the text literally then it seems either Jesus was wrong or He already came back in the Fathers glory with the angels (yet there is no record of this happening).

I see this as a problem because now christians seem to debate various interpretations without any way of knowing which if any is true.

 

[sureshjames]

Any thoughts? It seems as though Jesus said that people standing there with him would not taste death until they see the second coming. How do I defend this statement, seeing obviously they're all dead since it's over 2,000 years later.

Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him wdeny himself andxtake up his cross and follow me. 25 For xwhoever would save his life7 will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For ywhat will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or zwhat shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

brother dont think in a human way think godly way
in mathew 16:28 jesus is talking about the death of thier spirit
one who believes in jesus completely they will not die ( their spirit will not die)

 

[Guy]

Often the meaning of a verse is suggested by its context. In this case, three Gospel accounts of Jesus’ promise about seeing him in his kingdom lead immediately into the record of the transfiguration.


About a week after saying what he did at Matthew 16:28, Jesus took “some of” the apostles (Peter, James and John) up on a lofty mountain, likely Mount Hermon. There he was transfigured to appear in a vision with Moses and Elijah. And God said: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.”

The transfiguration was a vision of Jesus in Kingdom power and heavenly glory, as Peter later confirmed. Referring to the transfiguration, Peter explained that they had thus “become eyewitnesses of his magnificence.” He added that in the transfiguration Jesus had “received from God the Father honor and glory.” (2 Peter 1:16-18)

So, it appears that when Jesus said that before they died some of the apostles would see him in his kingdom, he was referring to the transfiguration scene that some of them witnessed shortly afterward.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Revelation 1:17-19
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Mark 4:11-12

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

John saw Him. According to the Lord Jesus, John isn't the only one.