The Letter to the Romans...

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Ok, so here’s my attempt at starting a contextual read of the book/letter of Romans...although, I’m not quite sure of the proper format. I've been thinking about it for a little while now and I’m not sure what would work best so I’m just gonna try something. My goal is to try to establish an unbroken chain of context in simple language as best as possible.

I was thinking I could post through Romans like we do on “The Bible verse by verse” thread, only with a few special guidelines...

Thread Guidelines:

1. Complete Thoughts

Passages from Romans must be posted in completed thoughts, regardless of chapter or verse markings, whether it’s a single line or several verses long.

[For example, Romans 1:1-6 can be comprehended as a single thought. While Romans 1:7 starts a separate thought.]

2. Format

Previous Context – Quote the previous conclusion/point that you're following.
Next Passage – Post the next portion of passage (complete thought) with verses
Conclusion/Point – As simple as possible what is Paul saying (following the context)?

3. Agreeing or Disagree

If you agree with an overall interpretation, “like” it...but please DON’T REPLY with agreement or commentary (to try to keep posts to a minimum).
I’m going to continue through as I have the time, but if you disagree with an overall interpretation of a passage, please post your alternative of that passage following the same format. Add “Alternative Interpretation to…” or something that lets readers know. But PLEASE refrain from splitting hairs unless the overall interpretation hinges on it.
If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation request it here. But if you want to argue against an interpretation of a passage, please reference the portion and start a new thread about it (at least we’ll be able to pinpoint the source of our disagreements).
If you are asked to further explain an interpretation, you’re encouraged to reply with additional scriptural references if you choose to reply.

4. If a better format would work I’m open for suggestions. This is more or less by trial and error.

---

Feel free to use whichever translation you want, but in hopes of keeping it a simple read I'm using ESV (though I'm partial to KJV).

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Romans 1:1-6

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

What Paul's Saying...

So Paul introduces himself, acknowledges his calling, and our calling to preach “the gospel” to the nations which was promised in the Old Testament (what he calls Holy Scripture); and the gospel is “we have received grace from Christ for obedience of faith”. So grace is defined as the power to be obedient...a power that is Christ’s alone.

If you agree with this interpretation, “like”.

If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:7

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What Paul's Saying...

Paul then speaks this same grace & peace to the believers in Rome.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:8-15

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you. For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you— that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. I am under obligation both to Greeks and to non-Greeks, both to the wise and to the foolish. So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

What Paul's Saying...

Paul desires to meet with them in person so they can strengthen each other’s faith and so he can preach “the gospel” to them face to face...but obligations have delayed him.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

What Paul's Saying...

A few thoughts ago (in post #2) Paul said that the gospel is “grace from Christ to be obedient”. Now Paul says the gospel is “the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes”. So in context, the Power of God for Salvation IS the grace to be obedient...that is the power...offered to anyone who believes. And in it [in the grace to be obedient] the righteousness of God is found from faith, fulfilling scripture.

If you agree with this interpretation, “like”.

If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:18-23

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

What Paul's Saying...

Unlike those who are found righteous in their obedience to God through the power of grace by faith in Christ (which is “the gospel message”), the unrighteous suppress this truth and worship idols instead of giving God glory. But they have *no excuse* for their unrighteousness because God makes his divine nature known by all that he has made.

If you agree with this interpretation, “like”.

If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:24-25

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

What Paul's Saying...

So the unrighteous are punished for being *disobedient* (i.e. knowing the truth but not acting on it). They’re enslaved by the lusts of their flesh.

If you agree with this interpretation, “like”.

If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 1:26-32

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

What Paul's Saying...

Paul then goes into details of the punishment on The Unrighteous (i.e. those who are disobedient to God, knowing the truth but still choosing not to act on it and instead teaching others not to as well). God gives them over to “filthy passions” and “debased minds”...to drown in; to be consumed by them.

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If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 2:1-5

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

What Paul's Saying...

In context of post #7; Paul then turns his attention to those Unrighteous persons (those who know the truth but who don’t act on it). Speaking to them directly, Paul has 2 problems with them: 1) they are hypocrites who judge others for sins they also continue to do; 2) they take advantage of God’s kindness by continuing to sin (because [post #2] grace is the power to be *obedient* to God). Paul says God’s kindness is to help us to repent (i.e. “turn away from sin”), not to continue in it. But those who continue in it have hard hearts and are storing up wrath for the Day of Judgment.

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Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 2:6-11

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.

What's Paul's Saying...

Paul says God will judge everyone according to their works, and based on your works you will either receive eternal life or wrath. Anyone who does evil (i.e. does not obey the truth) will have distresses and anyone who does good (i.e. obeys the truth) will have peace. It doesn’t matter who.

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If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Hizikyah · Jan 14, 2014

This must be taken very seriously even if one thinks they do mot do this, I believe all should heed this and self evaluate, myself included

Romans 2:4 "Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?"

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 2:12-13

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

What Paul's Saying...

In context to the previous thought (that “God will judge all by their works, no matter who”), Paul explains two groups: 1) those who sin outside of the law of God (i.e. the lawless) will die...and 2) those who sin under the law will be subject to it, because one must DO [i.e. obey] the law of God to be found righteous. So it doesn’t matter who God judges (no matter if one’s aware of God’s law vs. one not aware), all will be judged fairly.

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If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 2:14-16

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

What Paul's Saying...

(Paul continuing with the last point) when gentiles - who are not aware of God’s law - naturally obey something in God’s law (found in their hearts), *that* becomes the law Christ will judge them by on the last day, even though they may not be totally aware of God’s law...because at least to that extent they know right from wrong.

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Hizikyah · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

2 options, perish (without Law) or be judged (by Law), those who are perishing dont even have a chance.

Messiah back this up:

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

Romans 2:17-24

But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; and if you are sure that you yourself area guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth - you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

What Paul's Saying...

(Paul continuing with a contrast) However, those who call themselves “Jews” are aware of God’s whole law. And although they pride themselves on being the light bearers to the world, they’re hypocrites because they are continuously disobedient; breaking God’s law. This leads to the nations blaspheming God saying “wow, so that’s a follower of God? They don’t act any different than anyone else...God must be a mental illness some people go through.” [I took the liberty to modernize this last sentence for a better effect.]

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Hizikyah · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

I disagree that there is any other standard if thats what you mean, the last passage made it clear to me, also:

1 Yahchanan 3:20-21, "For if our heart condemns us, Yahweh is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before Yahweh."

Those who "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law"

they are in tune with Yahweh Law without knowing.

As a child I always used to ask why dont we keep Sabbath? It the 4th Commandment, I always got , "it for the Jews" I didnt know Scripture so I conceded. When I got older and read for myself, I found among other verse this:

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Yahshua · Jan 14, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Oh no, I don't mean that there's another standard...but that there's only one, God's Law. It's always the measuring stick. What I mean is "That particular element a gentile follows that's found in the law" is the proof God's law is over them to that extent. These particular gentiles are under God's law. Their conscience will convict them of those elements of God's law they know. As a contrast, these gentiles are different from the "lawless ones" you mentioned in the post earlier who will die. These gentiles would be equivalent to...let's say...we Christians who are still ignorant of every minutia of the law of God (like you mention about you and the Sabbath). If judgment day was upon us, we will be judged by our obedience to what we know, as God is fair. That how I understand what Paul's saying in Romans 2:14-16.

But again, others are free to offer their interpretations. So please share...

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 14, 2014

When you say
What is Paul saying you are interpreting the bible for someone else
this is not what JEsus would do

what we should do is
What is the meaning of the words?

Rom 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

oh wow
a what?
a servant?
lets look at that again!
I could, lke you, just say

Paul is saying that phoevbe works for the church!

then we could bgon on being LAodicean or Babylonin and never learn anything

but we should NOT SAY
WHAT PAUL IS SAYING IS THIS!
NO!
we hould say
JESUS WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME

and the holy spirit telling me now
richard, look it up yes that
look that up
look that word up now
see what I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU

and so so
so
so
I take out my FREE BIBLE

that YOU can have for FREE ALSO!

theword.net
and install it
and then click on any word
and it will tell us what the PAGAN King JAmes church of England twisted the origanl Greek into

what in the world do you suppose they did here?

lets see that verse

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

and I click on the word SERVANT
and what comes up is the word
SERVANT means PASTOR!!!!!!

PHOEBE IS A SISTER AND SHE IS A PASTOR!

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME

you see the church of England did not allow women pastors, so they covered all that stuff up

BUT GOD has saved his word for us

we can now CLICK and uncover all false doctrines!
yes!

the devil thought he had ruined the Bible with ever burning hell (which doesnt exist!)
and standing in prayer WHISH DOESNT EXIST

and the FALSE doctrine of ever living soul which DOESNT exist exept in the church of Englands imagination and really messed with the Bible

they didnt want PHOEBE to be a pastor so they made her a SERVANT

MY king JAMES BIBLE says WOMEN CAN BE PASTORS!

because I bothered to look it up

you know what?
instead of saying like the pharisees
Paul meant this
and Paul meant that
when he DIDINT

why dont you look up each word and tell us the truth?

you would have an awesome study on ROMANS

if you dont do it I will

and you know what you will find?

I promise
I promins
you will find that PAul said the law of ordinances and circumcision are no longer needed and the TEN COMMANDMENTS are very much in effect and are very much needed!
when you click on each word you will find that
if you dont do it
i will.

king james is going to answer for a lot of false doctrines....
eternally saved, predstined, eternal hell purgatory and standing in prayer all king james church of England abomminations they covered up the words
all you have to do is look
the truth is there

and you know what else you will find

the first day of the week is never ever mentioned in the Bible really
king james PUT THEM ALL IN THERE when he translated, they are complete forgeries

everytime you see the first day of the week
the origin was always DAY AFTER THE SABBATH!

yes!
You dont know what you will find when you start actually checking these things out

I just found out PHOEBE was a PASTOR!
WOMEN PASTOR IN THE BIBLE
all denominations
all doctors
all seminaries
they ALL do not know this
but
with a moment of prayer and one click
the devils coverup is exposed!

truly
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

meditation means to DIG DEEP AND REFLCT AND DISCOVER

try it
you will like it.
Come out of Babylon
I think you are one of Gods people, and he told HIS PEOPLE to come out of Babylon!
he didnt tell the wicked ones to come out
he told YOU to come out.

and ME
ok lets go!
lets study
lets start this Romans thing over again ans see what we find.
All praise to God.

Hizikyah · Jan 14, 2014

Yahshua said:

I disagree in that if one dosent know parts those parts are void. That would be impartial judgement, and therefore the less one knew the easier their path would be.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, "And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception."

Romans 1:20, "For since the creation of the world, the invisible things of Him are clearly seen--His eternal, power and holiness- -being understood by the things that are written; so that they are without excuse."

Hosheyah 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you will be no priest to Me. Because you have forgotten the Law of Yahweh, I will also forget your children."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears. And they will turn away their ears from the truth, and will be turned to fables."

Many don't love Yahweh enough to diligently seek His truth and choose to let their pastor tell them about Yah:

Isayah 66:17, "They who sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens, following after the one in the center of those who eat swine's flesh, that which is offered to gods and the rodent--will be consumed together: says Yahweh."

Also seeing how Shaul equates a "Jew" with knowing Law this may also be evidence:

Romans 2:9, "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek."

Karraster · Jan 14, 2014

some people have diminished capacity, was born that way, therefore cannot fully comprehend. yet some i have seen of this nature are gentle as lambs, love life and love everybody. surely they are innocent.

The Letter to the Romans...

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