What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[Grandpa]

OK then, how do you feel about obeying the Law?



So pretty much what you are saying is that if I ignore a Law that is...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

And don't bother to adjust my behavior according to it, I will produce wonderful fruit? By doing whatever I DECIDE is lawful, not what God says is lawful, I will be pleasing to Him because I will produce fruit form self will?

Which of the fruits of the Spirit will cause your behaviour to be against any commandments of God?

 

[Grandpa]

Here you are changing many of scripture, and yet I, you say, am not grasping communing with God? Isn't understanding God a big part of communing? How can you hear someone talking when you deny much of what that someone is saying to you? Communing is also listening, without that you are not communing. God speaks through scripture, and we can't choose what scripture to listen to, or tell that person (God has being!!) who He is and what you want Him to say.

Your understanding of God doesn't cause you to commune with God.

Communing with God causes you to understand Him... a little.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[just-me]

Gathering firstfruits are in the Mosaic law.
Leviticus 23:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

When we are born again, we enter into the land of promise. Recognizing this is being subject to the law. This is just very little of a very big picture.


Resurrection, Spiritual completeness, and our Father's perfection is what I would call the seven Spirits of God in Revelation 4:5 One might think that these attributes are only the offerings made by Christ Jesus, and our Father in heaven. These offerings are a representation of God’s children carrying the understanding in their heart, for God causes the faithful to complete things as He has previously determined. In James 2:20 a rhetorical question is asked, helping us to understand that faith is the motivator of completing this plan via good works saying; “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” Through faith we know, and revere the handiwork of God, recognizing our Father’s perfection. So we can see that the seven lambs offered during trumpets, and atonement, represent the indwelling Spirit of our Lord within His elect. We now have a sincere reason to yearn, as did Paul, when we read Romans 8:23. “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” After the Feast of Unleavened Bread, seven weeks are counted for the feast of weeks, beginning with the harvest of firstfruits within this time frame. Also the fifty days counted, beginning in the first month, represent the Holy Spirit, and Pentecost. The fifteenth day of the first month beings the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and is the same day that the Feast of Tabernacles begins in the seventh month. It’s amazing to me how the number seven continues to pop up in relation to the Holy Spirit of God, all centered upon Jesus Christ. So in James 1:18 we can relate the seven lambs to the firstfruits of His plan. It reads “ Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” It’s better to confess to the Truth while you’re still alive rather than after you’re dead, “For it is written” in Romans 14:11, and Philippians 2:11b “As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I thought the conversation was about what had changed between the old and the new, and what was ready to vanish away. The physical was the shadow of things to come spiritually. I guess I misread what you meant. Are you saying that the temple was/is has little to do with the shadow?

I thought the subject had changed in Post # 305 - quote: As I said types and foreshadows of things to come - better things. We now have the gift of holy Spirit, we have God in Christ in us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water. Your response in #309:

Shadows are cast because of light. In darkness there is no shadow. A shadow is cast because something is there. Take the substance away, and there is to shadow. Take the light away and there is no shadow. You cannot have one without the other.

So I responded with the subject change. And again you tried to bring it back to the temple in post #311. Did I say that the temple has little to do with shadows? I am trying to keep to the topic of covenants/law. Lol - you keep bringing up the temple.

 

[just-me]

I thought the subject had changed in Post # 305 - quote: As I said types and foreshadows of things to come - better things. We now have the gift of holy Spirit, we have God in Christ in us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water. Your response in #309:

So I responded with the subject change. And again you tried to bring it back to the temple in post #311. Did I say that the temple has little to do with shadows? I am trying to keep to the topic of covenants/law. Lol - you keep bringing up the temple.

Sorry about your confusion. The change between the old and the new, is the focus on the temple. The new covenant contains the words of God as does the old. Like man shall live by all of God's words. I mentioned before that the word covenant in 3 places were added in Hebrews, and were not the original text. The text was talking about the temple, and the covenant relating to the old, and now the new, so the conversation focus should be the difference of the temple, not the difference in God's words that the covenants contain. Hope that's not even more confusing to you.

 

[homwardbound]

1 Samuel 15:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Mercy?
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

So please extrapolate what these verses mean? Thank you, you have much insight

 

[chubbena]

You still do not get it.

Those laws are given to keep you safe. Since your always in danger, You need to follow those laws.

The law of God was given to bring you to God. To show you you are rightly condemned. To bring you to faith in Christ.

Once you have done what the law was intended to do. You are safe, You are Christs, You are his forever. This the law which brings you to Christ has been fulfilled. And YOU NO LONGER NEED IT.

so you can not compair a law you need, to a law you no longer need, because you are no longer in danger.

The same mistake the Israelites made after they entered the promised land.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you think I am on the side that says they are no more you are wrong.

All of you workers at the law have not been taught the principle that was to be taught to you by the schoolmaster.

The schoolmaster will never be gone until every single one of the people who God has drawn have come to Him.

Even though you yourselves have not been taught the principle, you still uphold the schoolmaster. Then it just takes someone or something else to expound on what happens after the role of the schoolmaster has been fulfilled.

Only Christians who have come to Faith in Christ are no longer under the law. Because they have been made righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Amen, If it was no longer alive, but was completely dead, either everyone would get to heaven, or no one could get to heaven because the law could no longer be a schoolmaster to them..

As long as their are unbelievers in the world. The law is alive and active and still doing its job.

 

[homwardbound]

Yet Paul said that he still did. Unless you consider yourself a far better Christian than Paul, there is a lesson there to be learned.

Yes you are right, since we are in unredeemed flesh, we are to reckon self dead to sinful flesh and alive to God the Father in the Spirit of Father through Son's finished work for us
Too simple and too hard for flesh to see, so ask Father to show us how to worship in Spiri8t and truth

 

[just-me]

Mercy?
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

So please extrapolate what these verses mean? Thank you, you have much insight

With obedience comes mercy. vain worship is an abomination unto God.

1 Samuel 15:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Proverbs 17:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Better is a dry morsel, and quietness therewith, than an house full of sacrifices with strife.

Isaiah 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.


Isaiah 1:10-15 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

 

[homwardbound]

The Almighty LORD will speak to the hearts of His children. in my opinion if the heart is telling us we don't need to obey the Word, then it's not the Holy Spirit in the heart. The commandments are not hard to follow, unless we make it hard. So to say people that teach obeying law is putting a burden on people, is goofy, its not a burden its a blessing when obeyed. Misery likes company and wants to keep us down. Living by the law doesn't tell us we won't have bumps in the road, but even with the bumps and potholes, its easy street, it might feel like an obstacle course at times, but The Almighty brings us through. Christ Jesus is the way, even when the way looks bumpy.

So on easy street then we are in the "Cross Walk" and are safe trusting in Father through Son by the cross we walk safe

 

[chubbena]

If you think I am on the side that says they are no more you are wrong.

All of you workers at the law have not been taught the principle that was to be taught to you by the schoolmaster.

The schoolmaster will never be gone until every single one of the people who God has drawn have come to Him.

Even though you yourselves have not been taught the principle, you still uphold the schoolmaster. Then it just takes someone or something else to expound on what happens after the role of the schoolmaster has been fulfilled.

Only Christians who have come to Faith in Christ are no longer under the law. Because they have been made righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

and therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[homwardbound]

Exodus 12:1-2, Exodus 13:3-4, and Deuteronomy 16:1. “And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten. This day came ye out in the month “Abib.” Observe the month of “Abib,” and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of “Abib” the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.”

Spiritually, THANK YOU LORD< THANK YOU< THANK YOU< THANK YOU

What other response is there physical, okay Lord I can be perfect and do as you command, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! perfectly anyway ever and if anyone one of us could then would we need God?
Are we not born God's knowing good and evil after the similitude of Adam and Eve, choosing self first over neighbor killing in order to not be killed
The difference is big, To focus on literal or Spiritual truth, one sets one free the other shows us our bondage in the flesh and by trying to be perfect keeps one in bondage to flesh

Christ alone is the answer

 

[just-me]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Homewardbound

"Your new moons" is ones own light without the true light. Gods says "your" and "your." in metaphor, The moon was made to reflect the greater light, as we are required to do spiritually. Through Jesus, we are the reflection of the true light of God. In reality, If I reveal myself without the true light, I have no light. I will have to talk vain talk for others to see my fictitious light rather than God's, while endorsing my principles and then call it God's. It's blaspheme against the true light.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The same mistake the Israelites made after they entered the promised land.

lol.

No. They did not enter because they did not trust God. And kept complaining

wow talk about making excuses.

If you want to be under law. feel free. The end result will be death.

 

[homwardbound]

John 3:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

And Christ came to give us life, and this life is in the Spirit that man was dead to , born this way from the similitude of Adam and Eve.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Who is the thief today, or what is the thief today since by the cross the Devil is judged, condemned?
Flesh is that it? in need of what? Born of the Spirit of God, right? Is that for uis here today or does one have to be literally dead?
I think not, since the disciples had to wait for the spirit of God to come upon them, is this not for us too?

 

[homwardbound]

Romans 8:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

If one has not come to this, maybe one does not see the finality of the cross?

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by chubbena
The same mistake the Israelites made after they entered the promised land.

lol.

No. They did not enter because they did not trust God. And kept complaining

wow talk about making excuses.

If you want to be under law. feel free. The end result will be death.

They errored before, and after. Anybody over the age of 20 died except Joshua and Caleb before they entered the promised land. After they entered the promised land they errored against the law again and again. There is nothing wrong with chubbena's statement. You are relating before, and he is relating after. I'm sure you have read about the numerous judgement of God in Judges and other books in the OT relating teh history of the Israelites straying from the truth over and over again after they entered the promised land.

 

[homwardbound]

J

ohn 8:36 (KJV)

[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Free from what? Flesh selfishness and free to trust in Father to do in you what you can't do from self and that is love per 1 Cor 13:4-13 as God does. I know when I read that I see my inability, and when i trust God to take the reins it is done just as in Jesus it is finished

 

[homwardbound]

Just me saiud

"the spiritual view is to be under the law?"

The Law of liberty not the letter right?