The Churches Big Lie.

[Ranting]

I am sorry to say that the message I am going to share with you is one that the Church at large hates, and hates with a passion. For almost 2,000 years the Church has taught a lie about the Jewish people. That lie is the assertion that because the Jews killed Jesus, God has washed His hands of them and has no purpose left for them.
That assertion is blatantly contrary to the Scriptures and has resulted in unimaginable suffering.
An Irreversible Call
Romans 11:29 says “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” God called the Jews to be His Chosen People (Deuteronomy 7:6–9), and they remain so today. The time is long overdue for the Church to recognize this fact and accept it. Until it does, the Church will never fully understand God’s plan for the ages.
Replacement theology is rampant, with much of the church of Jesus Christ—probably a great majority—believing that Israel has been replaced in God’s great, prophetic promises.

 

[phil112]

Ranting, when you say "the Church", you surely are talking about the one and only church. It has never been wrong about anything. Christ started it, and it has remained true to Him since. Now there are a LOT of apostate churches that fit the description you gave, but not the true church.
You really should differentiate between them.

 

[Ranting]

Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

 

[Ranting]

"In their affliction they will earnestly seek me."

But the process of coming to life will not be complete until the nation accepts Jesus as the true Messiah. This will occur after the Day of the LORD arrives and is seen at Ezek. 36:25-26,


"And I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."

It is imperative that we understand the difference between the "gradual" return of Israel into the land of Palestine in unbelief and the end result of that gathering which will be the establishment of a believing remnant in the land after the Messiah accomplishes His victory at Armageddon. Amos 9:13-15


"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, When the plowman will overtake the reaper And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; When the mountains will drip sweet wine, And all the hills will be dissolved. "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live {in them} , They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

There is no such thing as replacement "theology" the church IS Israel - it's built on the foundation stone Christ and his apostles:

(Eph 2:19 KJV) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

(Eph 2:20 KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The church Christ built is forever, there will never be a temple located on dirt in Jerusalem. The temple of God is heavenly and so is the city of Jerusalem:

(Heb 12:22 KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[Ranting]

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[Ranting]

Well larry if you don't like these threads look out for my other ones that are coming up"""""" your going to blow your top OFF! Enjoy.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Well larry if you don't like these threads look out for my other ones that are coming up"""""" your going to blow your top OFF! Enjoy.

Who said I don't like these threads - I'll counter your posts when and if I feel like it. All I've seen so far is fluff..

Resistance is futile...you will be assimilated..

 

[crossnote]

Resistance is futile...you will be assimilated..

​

I see, your mantra when you start getting nervous.

 

[Linda70]

A nice bowl of hot "chicken" soup with "matzo balls" works wonders for "nervousness"!

 

[RedTent]

I agree that a misunderstanding of Israel is rampart in the church, both the organized church and even in the church as God defines it. This has been so since almost the first, when gentiles took over the leadership. Early church fathers started it, such as Origen and Clement.

Ever since Abraham, the Hebrews have been selected as showing us the principles of God. For instance, the freeing of the Hebrews from Egyptian slavery was symbolic of Christ freeing us from the slavery of sin.

Scripture tells us that it is God who blinded them to knowing the Christ has come for our sakes. We are told that when we accept Christ was are grafted into Israel. Yet the church ignores these scriptures as it repeats over and over all scriptures about the failures of the Hebrews.

By the fourth century, the entire worship service was changed so that anything God had told the Jews to do was taken out of Christian worship. God rules our world, so the Old Testament was preserved, but there have been movements against it by such as Luther and Hitler.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

when you say people care claiming God has 'washed his hands' of the jews...do you mean they are saying that God no longer saves or exalts them based on their ethnicity?

because God never did that in the first place...he isn't now...and he never will...

God saves those who are faithful to him and to his now fulfilled promise to send his messiah...nobody else...

i believe many jews will come to christ in the future...and that is how they will belong to God...not by ethnicity or any other way...

 

[Witness45]

I am sorry to say that the message I am going to share with you is one that the Church at large hates, and hates with a passion.

The Church is not a building, nor is the church all those who profess to believe and follow Jesus. The church is the true body of Christ, his true disciples.

The true disciples don't hate anyone with a passion, therefore anyone coming in the name of Jesus out of hatred is not a disciple. So when the majority of those claiming to be his disciples show hatred for others, that only means they aren't really his disciples. Please make not of this distinction, for it is what helps us separate the sheep from the goats...

 

[Larry_Stotle]

I see, your mantra when you start getting nervous.

Note to note - I never get nervous debating doctrine - I've been at it for years - in a Plymouth Brethren bible study group I attended for a few years I was known (fondly of course) as "Larry" the Heretic.

You too...

 

[crossnote]

Note to note - I never get nervous debating doctrine - I've been at it for years - in a Plymouth Brethren bible study group I attended for a few years I was known (fondly of course) as "Larry" the Heretic.

You too...

Plymouth Brethren, oh yeah, did Brian McLaren leave with you?...another emergent heretic.

 

[Timeline]

I agree that a misunderstanding of Israel is rampart in the church, both the organized church and even in the church as God defines it. This has been so since almost the first, when gentiles took over the leadership. Early church fathers started it, such as Origen and Clement.

Ever since Abraham, the Hebrews have been selected as showing us the principles of God. For instance, the freeing of the Hebrews from Egyptian slavery was symbolic of Christ freeing us from the slavery of sin.

Scripture tells us that it is God who blinded them to knowing the Christ has come for our sakes. We are told that when we accept Christ was are grafted into Israel. Yet the church ignores these scriptures as it repeats over and over all scriptures about the failures of the Hebrews.

By the fourth century, the entire worship service was changed so that anything God had told the Jews to do was taken out of Christian worship. God rules our world, so the Old Testament was preserved, but there have been movements against it by such as Luther and Hitler.

What I am about to say will probably be taken very much the opposite of the way it is intended, but here we go:

Leviticus 20:10 ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

John 8: 1-12
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Now under the letter of the Law of Moses (from God), the Israelites were commanded to stone adulterers to death. It seems like Jesus should have asked them where the man was and said for both of them to be stoned, as it was written. So, did Jesus carry out the letter of the Law or the Spirit of the Law.

Galatians 5:22-24
[SUP]22[/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,[SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

1 John 2:3-17
[SUP]3 [/SUP]By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. [SUP]8 [/SUP]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


It is very important that you understand that I am not accusing Jesus of sin. As I do believe He was and is perfect. What I am saying is that Jesus freed us from the Law of Moses.

 

[RedTent]

when you say people care claiming God has 'washed his hands' of the jews...do you mean they are saying that God no longer saves or exalts them based on their ethnicity?

because God never did that in the first place...he isn't now...and he never will...

God saves those who are faithful to him and to his now fulfilled promise to send his messiah...nobody else...

i believe many jews will come to Christ in the future...and that is how they will belong to God...not by ethnicity or any other way...

Surely you believe scripture. Scripture says this:

Deuteronomy 7:6 6“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Isaiah 43:10 10“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He.


Israel Is Not Cast Away Romans 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

 

[Apostol2013]

Well the apostle paul said do not boast against the branches and also stated that the promise was to the jews first then the gentiles

 

[Apostol2013]

And i am a jew also not by name but by decendancy but christ promises never fail as He promised my people

 

[RedTent]

What I am about to say will probably be taken very much the opposite of the way it is intended, but here we go:

Leviticus 20:10‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

John 8: 1-12
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Now under the letter of the Law of Moses (from God), the Israelites were commanded to stone adulterers to death. It seems like Jesus should have asked them where the man was and said for both of them to be stoned, as it was written. So, did Jesus carry out the letter of the Law or the Spirit of the Law.

Galatians 5:22-24
[SUP]22[/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,[SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

1 John 2:3-17
[SUP]3 [/SUP]By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. [SUP]8 [/SUP]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


It is very important that you understand that I am not accusing Jesus of sin. As I do believe He was and is perfect. What I am saying is that Jesus freed us from the Law of Moses.

You are reading scripture to say that God wants us to kill people, and that is not the intent of scripture at all. You are reading it without learning of the times it was written to. The spirit and truth of that law is the same today as it was then.

The laws of the land the Hebrews were going into were corrupt and unjust, babies were murdered, even, to appease idols. Scripture was laying out for them a society based on kindness and justice, and saying it was absolutely important that no injustice was allowed. There were no jails or punishments for criminals as we have now. There were strict laws governing the stoning so that it could not be used unjustly.

It is true, though, that the OT stresses behaviors in regard to instructions, and NT stresses the spirit behind our behaviors. However, both New and Old tell us that what we do, and the spirit are both important. Obeying in spirit is what the entire book of Isaiah is about.