Self Defense - Is it wrong?
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All good posts. This is interesting. My opinion is if you are being persecuted for your faith, bring it on. If otherwise, hear the Spirit at that moment. This is a tough one. I want to say that God won't allow anything to come your way except that He'd be a 'friend that sticks closer than a brother' at that moment. I remember my older brother taking on a guy that was twice my size who slugged me. This guy backed down.
I just painted the perfect scenario. I'm talking spiritual here. Would God make the enemy back down on our behalf in a non persecution deal?
We helped a girl one time that was getting beat up by two girls and a guy. We jumped right in, not swinging, but placing ourselves between the victim and the attackers. I got slugged. Unbeknownst to me, my wife got slugged also. Found out later. But it all stopped as fast as it started. The guy that hit me helped me find my glasses. All was peaceful. Everyone departed.
I dont know know about next time. If someone in my family is being attacked God better get to them before I do.
I just painted the perfect scenario. I'm talking spiritual here. Would God make the enemy back down on our behalf in a non persecution deal?
We helped a girl one time that was getting beat up by two girls and a guy. We jumped right in, not swinging, but placing ourselves between the victim and the attackers. I got slugged. Unbeknownst to me, my wife got slugged also. Found out later. But it all stopped as fast as it started. The guy that hit me helped me find my glasses. All was peaceful. Everyone departed.
I dont know know about next time. If someone in my family is being attacked God better get to them before I do.
The first Christians went to their deaths willingly. They didn't fight back. We willingly die to show the world that there is a better way...that we have something the world doesn't. So, if someone breaks in to kill me, no matter his reasons, I will ask him not to, speak of God and forgive the person. I will be scared, afraid to die, but I trust that Christ is with me, and that He will be with me through the entire ordeal.
Remember, the first Christians were fed to lions, beheaded, crucified, drawn and quartered, stoned, and tortured to death. When Japan outlawed Christianity, men and women were sliced and hung upside down over a pit of excrement. They could renounce Christ, most didn't and died. When Mexico sought to eradicate Catholicism, a young boy was tortured, the soles of his feet were cut off, and he was forced to walk two miles to his death. They asked if he would recant, and he replied, Viva Cristo Rey. Long live Christ the King! They stabbed him, he made the sign of the cross in his own blood, and then they shot him in the head. We must go willingly, for in our deaths, God will testify His grace and mercy.
Remember, the first Christians were fed to lions, beheaded, crucified, drawn and quartered, stoned, and tortured to death. When Japan outlawed Christianity, men and women were sliced and hung upside down over a pit of excrement. They could renounce Christ, most didn't and died. When Mexico sought to eradicate Catholicism, a young boy was tortured, the soles of his feet were cut off, and he was forced to walk two miles to his death. They asked if he would recant, and he replied, Viva Cristo Rey. Long live Christ the King! They stabbed him, he made the sign of the cross in his own blood, and then they shot him in the head. We must go willingly, for in our deaths, God will testify His grace and mercy.
Would you agree or disagree that there is a difference between the 2 lines of thought below...
1. Making a stand for truth/witness and giving your life under religious persecution or...
2. A serial killer breaking into your home to rape your wife and slit her throat which gets stopped because you defended your wife?
1. Making a stand for truth/witness and giving your life under religious persecution or...
2. A serial killer breaking into your home to rape your wife and slit her throat which gets stopped because you defended your wife?
HAHAHA I always say that I will put so much lead in the air that you would be able to walk on it!
I like your reply as well....guess it is the Marine in me coming out HAH!
I like your reply as well....guess it is the Marine in me coming out HAH!
First of all the quotes are funny and I don't recall saying anything about KILLING ANYBODY as I said.....I would put so much lead in the AIR that you would be able to WALK on IT.....
Israel rejoiced over the destruction of their enemies on numerous occasions and I thoroughly REJOICE over the fact that JESUS will STOMP THE ENEMIES HEAD (Satan) in and my comment in no way shape or form indicates my love for humanity on a whole and my desire that every one of them make the gates of heaven/God's kingdom.....
SO.....again I say don't be so easily offended and or judgmental of a man's stance on any subject before you have all of the facts....WHO are you to judge ANOTHER MAN'S SERVANT?
Now as far as my enemies go, we love them, we feed them, we give them water and then we send them to meet Jesus early!
Now, if you believe that is my attitude about those who would move against me then.........!
Israel rejoiced over the destruction of their enemies on numerous occasions and I thoroughly REJOICE over the fact that JESUS will STOMP THE ENEMIES HEAD (Satan) in and my comment in no way shape or form indicates my love for humanity on a whole and my desire that every one of them make the gates of heaven/God's kingdom.....
SO.....again I say don't be so easily offended and or judgmental of a man's stance on any subject before you have all of the facts....WHO are you to judge ANOTHER MAN'S SERVANT?
Now as far as my enemies go, we love them, we feed them, we give them water and then we send them to meet Jesus early!
Now, if you believe that is my attitude about those who would move against me then.........!
Nice word games. However, I am pretty sure anyone who read your response to post #21 would understand that you meant to kill them.
Also, your first argument was that killing was okay to back your stance. You were all for killing to be okay within the context of your post.
The only reason you made this comment is because you got caught. So now you are back-pedaling.
Also, your first argument was that killing was okay to back your stance. You were all for killing to be okay within the context of your post.
The only reason you made this comment is because you got caught. So now you are back-pedaling.
I stand on every post I wrote as I got caught in nothing, by nothing and somebody who thinks they are something....when you become a mature adult and are not so easily offended by the truth which again shows a lack of spiritual maturity and insight then come judge me and my stance...
For the record....I will defend my family using any means available which is what any biblical MAN would do! There is a time to KILL which is not MURDER so I recommend a basic study of words before you make incorrect judgment calls again!
For the record....I will defend my family using any means available which is what any biblical MAN would do! There is a time to KILL which is not MURDER so I recommend a basic study of words before you make incorrect judgment calls again!
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Let's take a look behind door #3...
2Ch 20:1 It came to pass after this also, that the children of Moab, and the children of Ammon, and with them other beside the Ammonites, came against Jehoshaphat to battle.
2Ch 20:2 Then there came some that told Jehoshaphat, saying, There cometh a great multitude against thee from beyond the sea on this side Syria; and, behold, they be in Hazazontamar, which is Engedi.
2Ch 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2Ch 20:5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
2Ch 20:8 And they dwelt therein, and have built thee a sanctuary therein for thy name, saying,
2Ch 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
2Ch 20:10 And now, behold, the children of Ammon and Moab and mount Seir, whom thou wouldest not let Israel invade, when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them, and destroyed them not;
2Ch 20:11 Behold, I say, how they reward us, to come to cast us out of thy possession, which thou hast given us to inherit.
2Ch 20:12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
2Ch 20:14 Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the LORD in the midst of the congregation;
2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.
2Ch 20:16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.
2Ch 20:20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.
2Ch 20:21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the LORD, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the LORD; for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Ch 20:22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
2Ch 20:23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
2Ch 20:24 And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Have we forgotten who God is?
Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
2Ch 20:1 It came to pass after this also, that the children of Moab, and the children of Ammon, and with them other beside the Ammonites, came against Jehoshaphat to battle.
2Ch 20:2 Then there came some that told Jehoshaphat, saying, There cometh a great multitude against thee from beyond the sea on this side Syria; and, behold, they be in Hazazontamar, which is Engedi.
2Ch 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2Ch 20:5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
2Ch 20:8 And they dwelt therein, and have built thee a sanctuary therein for thy name, saying,
2Ch 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
2Ch 20:10 And now, behold, the children of Ammon and Moab and mount Seir, whom thou wouldest not let Israel invade, when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them, and destroyed them not;
2Ch 20:11 Behold, I say, how they reward us, to come to cast us out of thy possession, which thou hast given us to inherit.
2Ch 20:12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
2Ch 20:14 Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the LORD in the midst of the congregation;
2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.
2Ch 20:16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.
2Ch 20:20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.
2Ch 20:21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the LORD, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the LORD; for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Ch 20:22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
2Ch 20:23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
2Ch 20:24 And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Have we forgotten who God is?
Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
It is hard to be like Jesus, but what He was showing us is how to become perfect in the sight of God. If someone slap me on my face, and I had returned to the one that has slapped me with a slap thinking that is the right thing to do, but really it is returning the same feeling back to the first slapper and we both will go home with the same feelings and might share them with others that are in your home. But if I didn't returned the slap, and forgave the Slapper from the heart; the Slapper might see that he did something wrong and have remorse on what he has done, but if he feel good inside, then it will show what he has desire for. Whatever a person produced while on earth, will have to live with the things that they had produced for eternally. So if a person produced happiness, they'll have to dwell with it for eternally and which that is called the act of reaping what you has sowed.
While it's true Jesus didn't fight back when His time came to be taken in Gethsemane, He did either use a Divine power, or His disciples somehow prevented, the Jews from stoning and seizing Him.
John10:30 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.John10:39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
We don't know exactly how he was unscathed in this event, but we DO know that in some way He defended Himself.
John10:30 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.John10:39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
We don't know exactly how he was unscathed in this event, but we DO know that in some way He defended Himself.
I agree and will add....There is no way I will ever be convinced that it would be wrong or sin to defend your family/friends etc. when a violent bloody man is attempting to rape/kill or violently assault said family and friends.
40 years in church and 27 years of intensive study has led to my stand....<--I know as this means nothing in the grand scheme of things!
40 years in church and 27 years of intensive study has led to my stand....<--I know as this means nothing in the grand scheme of things!