God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

A Commentary on Philippians 2:6

It seems that many Trinitarian translators have a difficulty understanding Philippians 2:6. Here are a few reasonable translations of this verse:

New English Bible (NEB)
For the divine nature was his from the first; yet he did not think to snatch at equality with God

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized,

Young's Literal Translation
who, being in the form of God, thought not robbery to be equal to God,

The meaning of Philippians 2:6 depends on understanding two things: the phrase "the form of God" and the Greek word harpagmos (translated, robbery).

The word translated form is morphe (pronounced mor-fay'). It occurs only in three places in the New Testament and in each place is rendered form (Mark 16:12; Philippians 2:6-7). In Mark it is applied to the form which Jesus assumed after his resurrection, and in which he appeared to two of his disciples on his way to Emmaus. "After that he appeared in another form unto two of them." This "form" was so unlike his usual appearance, that they did not know him. The word properly means 1. the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; 2. external appearance. The word form does not suggest that the appearance is the true revelation of the object itself. The form merely participates in the reality.

Millerites believe that Christ is a divine and infinite Being that has the form of God and has all the essential qualities of God and yet is not God. Here is the scholarly support:

The Septuagint makes use of the term morphe in such passages as Judges 8:18, where it describes Gideon's brothers as having the "form" of princes. And in Isaiah 44:13 where the craftsman is described as making idols in the "form" of a man. Clearly, an idol in the "form" of a man is not equally great as a man. True exegesis reaches this irrefutable conclusion: "The form of something" refers to appearance, likeness and similarity. It is never a reference to exact equality.

Now consider harpagmos. The basic idea of the word ([Greek: harpagmos] in Philp. 2:6) is that of seizing what one does not possess. —F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1972, p. 109.

Let's make use of both of these impressive summations and translate the essential meaning of Philippians 2:6.

"Christ, who was nearly God, did not think of grasping at equality with God."

If you think about it, every Trinitarian translation of this verse that attempts to be literal is empty of content. See KJV and NKJV. It is nonsense to translate Philippians 2:6 to mean God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself.

oldthennew · Jul 9, 2014

Jesus Christ's yoke is easy,
for His yoke is God's yoke.

the doctrines of men will never
cease to compete for His divinity.

man covets to taste of the Powers of the world to come,
but it is a precious gift that is inherited only through Love.

crossnote · Jul 9, 2014

It's a shame that those who deny the Deity of Christ get to continue to spue their poison on CC.

John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

Colossians 2:9
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

'Deity' in Colossians 2:9 of the NASB (and Godhead in the KJV) is a translation of the Greek theotees, which is "an abstract noun for theos," the usual Greek word translated 'God.' (Greek-English Lexicon, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich) "An abstract noun is one indicating a quality, as goodness, beauty." (Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary, International Edition).

So Christ possesses all the fullness of God's qualities. This sounds a lot like William Barclay's commentary on John 1:1.

William Barclay wrote:

Finally John says that "The Word was God". There is no doubt that this is a difficult saying for us to understand, and it is difficult because Greek, in which John wrote, had a different way of saying things from the way in which English speaks. When the Greek uses a noun it almost always uses the definite article with it. The Greek for God is `theos', and the definite article is `ho'. When Greek speaks about God it does not simply say `theos'; it says `ho theos'. Now, when Greek does not use the definite article with a noun that noun becomes much more like an adjective; it describes the character, the quality of the person. John did not say that the Word was `ho theos'; that would have been to say that the Word was identical with God; he says that the Word was `theos' --without the definite article-- which means that the Word was, as we might say, of the very same character and quality and essence and being as God. When John said `The Word was God' he was not saying that Jesus is identical with God; he was saying that Jesus is so perfectly the same as God in mind, in heart, in being that in Jesus we perfectly see what God is like. --The Daily Study Bible --The Gospel of John vol.1 III. [Revised Edition ISBN 0-664-21304-9]

crossnote · Jul 9, 2014

And I could cut and paste dozens of quotes from Greek scholars defending the 2 passages as supporting the deity of Christ.
Do you worship Jesus? Others in Scripture did, I guess they were sinning since they are to worship GOD ALONE.

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

Yes. And Millerite doctrine is very clear. Christ is God by imputation. So we worship Him.

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

It is nonsense for even one Greek scholar to translate Philippians 2:6 to mean God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself. Multiplying nonsense by a large number is still nonsense.

p_rehbein · Jul 9, 2014

Shubee said:

this is the first intelligent thing you have said on this thread......and I fully agree........

denying the Divinity of Christ, the Holy Trinity is not ONLY nonsense, it may well be eternal damnation......just some food for thought.......

crossnote · Jul 9, 2014

Shubee said:

Imputation implies a granting or declaring of what wasn't before. Therefore that is a flat denial of the eternalness of His Godhood. God is always God and to 'impute' deity to a created being is nothing but a man made imaginary construct fit for destruction.

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

That is correct.

crossnote said:

Godhood simply means "divine character or condition; divinity." Millerites believe that the Son always co-existed with the Father. There never was a change in the divine character or divinity of Christ.

crossnote said:

I never said that Christ is a created being. Millerites believe that Christ is infinite but that the Father is greater and is comparable to the greatest possible infinity.

crossnote · Jul 9, 2014

So Christ is eternal but not God?
The Father may be greater in function/office but not in essence.

dcontroversal · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

It's a shame that those who deny the Deity of Christ get to continue to spue their poison on CC.

John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I agree with this for sure.....Jesus is God!

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

Yes. You are absolutely correct.

crossnote · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

Shubee said:

So He somehow eternally self-existed apart from God not being made?

oldhermit · Jul 9, 2014

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]By oldhermit. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]THE EMPTYING OF GODLY FORM AND EQUALITY[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In Philippians 2:6, the apostle Paul begins with the acknowledgment that Jesus is God and provides us with a revealed analysis of his redemptive function. Paul does not begin his discussion of Jesus from the vantage point of the incarnation but from that of eternity. What Paul stresses in the first part of this chapter is the example of humility that Jesus modeled for us in his willingness to divest himself of this form for a time on our behalf. This of course does not suggest that he ceased be God. He does not strip himself of deity. I am quite sure that we will never fully understand all that is involved in Jesus’ emptying himself of divine form and equality. All we can rely on is the language of the text. “ἐ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]έ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” is third person singular aorist first indicative of “[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ό[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” which means to empty or to lay aside. How do we explain that even in the flesh he is still God yet remains so without retaining anything that defines divine nature? Perhaps ‘to lay aside’ offers the best explanation. He lays it aside as one would a garment and in Hebrews chapter one (which we will study in the next lesson) where we will see him take it up again. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Emptying of Form[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In order for Jesus to fulfill his redemptive mission, he must assume a fleshly posture. We can find at least four reasons for this in scripture. 1) Divine essence cannot die. As man he will die. 2) The requirements of the Law of Moses required a sacrifice of flesh and blood. Divine essence is not made of flesh and blood. 3) His heritage must come from a specific fleshly linage. As God, he has no linage. 4) The demands of the Law were imposed upon man and it required that man fulfill them. The Law required not only that man fulfill its demands but that only a man of the seed of Abraham to whom the Law was given. Thus, a Gentile could never have satisfied the Law, Romans 1:1-5. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Fulfilling the function of a sacrifice required that he assume the form of a sacrifice. In this metamorphosis, he poured out of himself every expression of deity. Divine essence is now submitted to limitations. As God, these characteristics of essence are, by their very nature, without boundaries or limitations, but as man, he will be subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that limit all men. Divine character is now submitted to vulnerability. As God, he cannot be tempted, but as man, he yields his divine character to the onslaught of Satan. He becomes the second Adam. He exposes his own moral integrity to the same temptations that are common to all men, Hebrews 2:18, 4:15, and 5:2. Yet, unlike Adam, he maintains his integrity all the way to the cross, Hebrews 4:15 and 2:9. He succeeds where Adam failed. He simply never sinned. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Emptying of Equality[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word “ἴ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” is nominative and accusative plural neuter of “ἴ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” which suggests equality in quantity or quality, Thayer's p 307. This is the same language used by Jesus in Matthew 20:12. Here, Jesus relates the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The accusation by those who had labored all day was that the Master was unjust because in giving equal wages to those who had worked fewer hours than they had worked he had granted them “ ἴ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]”[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]equal status. Paul now uses this same word to express the nature of Jesus’ divine status. He is equal to God.[/FONT] “ἁ[FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ὸ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” is the act of seizing, robbery, Thayer's p 74. Note[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] bene[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]it is his equality[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with God that Jesus did not regard as robbery to possess. He did not gain his divine[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]equality by an act of seizure or robbery. This equality is his by right of divine essence. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Form of a Servant[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Taking the form of a servant is an exchange of [/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Segoe UI, sans-serif]ῇ[/FONT][FONT=Segoe UI Semibold, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]/ nature.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He exchanged the essence of God for the essence of man.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Spirit clothes itself with flesh, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:14 and 10:5-10. This is much more than just a transformation from spirit to flesh. Every attribute that defined him as God will either be submitted to limitations or subjected to vulnerability. Omnipotence yields itself to dependency. The all-sufficient one now becomes[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]fully dependent, Isaiah 12:2, John 5:30 and Matthew 4:1-10. How can we envision the Creator of the universe emptying himself of all power and submitting as an infant into the care of frail, week, virtually helpless man? How can man care for God? To do this would require an absolute dependency upon God for his safekeeping as he grows to manhood. He became subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that are part of all human existence. Omniscience gives way to revelation. He must learn God’s will as a man and submit to it, Hebrews 10:7,[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:49-50 and 17-4. Omnipresence confines itself to the limitations of time and space. His Eternal nature is surrendered for mortality - he became subject to death. The transcendent One became an equal among his fleshly brethren, Hebrews 2:17.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The unified One became the cursed of[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God, Mark 15:34, Galatians 3:13 and 2Corinthians 5:21. The unchanging One became subject to change. He not only changes form but his fleshly form will also be subject to all of the changes of natural biological processes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]THE ATTRIBUTES OF [/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ύ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]s[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 2:3-7[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In keeping with the posture of a [/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ύ[/FONT][FONT=Symbol, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]s - servant / slave, Paul says that he did nothing through selfishness; that he did not seek his own glory but regarded others more important than himself.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He placed the needs of others above his own. He emptied himself. The servant reserves[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nothing of himself. He stands stripped of all personal will. All has become completely subjected. This is total surrender of control. Now, he is in the likeness of man. In the beginning, God, this God, created man in his own image, according to his own likeness. Now, this same God steps out of eternity into time to be made in the image of his creation - man. The Creator becomes the creature. The Lord of all becomes the servant of all. The Governor of the universe becomes subordinate to another and all of this by his own[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]will.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A Cloak of Humility, Philippians 2:8[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Humility is not foreign to the character of man but rather intrinsic to it.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Humility is demonstrated by obedience that characterized the life and ministry of the Lord. He “became[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” ‘Became’ suggests a change of status.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Before assuming the posture of a man, he is not subject to deity as a subordinate creature or even as a lesser member of the triadic unity. This is a process of character development as a[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]man, Matthew 26:52-54.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He must learn obedience to the will of God as a man, completely subject[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]to the will of the Father, Hebrews 5:8-9. He did not allow his status as Son of God to exempt him from the obligation of obedience. What then did he learn about obedience? Gerald Paden of the Sunset International Bible Institute suggests there are at least eight things that scripture reveals about this learning process. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. He learned its duty - Even though he was a son - This is the duty of sonship.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2. He learned its necessity - The cup cannot pass unless he drinks it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3. He learned its demand - All that I am and all that I have – This is total[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]consecration.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4. He learned its cost - For a time, it cost him even heaven itself. In the end, even[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]his human life. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5. He learned its integrity - He kept the law of God all the way to the cross. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]6. He learned its honor - He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]7. He learned its reward - He was highly exalted and given a name that is above[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]every name. Because he learned all these things, he is now able to lay hold of [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the reward of obedience. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]8. “Even death on the cross.” This is the last, greatest act of humility. It is the[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]culmination of everything in the purpose of God to redeem man back to himself. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is the last[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]full measure[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of devotion for loves sake. He does not even[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]consider equality with man a[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]thing to hold on to. He even pours himself out to[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]become the cursed of the cursed, Galatians 3:13 and Deuteronomy 21:23. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Enthroned and Glorified, Philippians 2:9-11[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A. “Therefore” (because he humbled himself) God highly exalted him, 9.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1. 1Peter 3:22 - “Gone into heaven...” Acts 2:34[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2. Ephesians 1:20 - “Seated at God’s right hand in the heavenly places”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3. Hebrews 1:3 - “Sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4. Daniel 7:13-14 - “Ascended to the Ancient of Days.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]B. “Given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]knee shall bow,”[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]9-10 and Romans 14:11 - “Every knee shall bow and [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]confess[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]that[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jesus is[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lord / Jehovah,” Isaiah45:23.[/FONT]

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

crossnote said:

The dictionary meaning of essence is "the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features."

The essence of anything infinite is infinity. However, it remains that the Father ranks above the Son by a greater infinity. Please permit me to express my theology with a simpler example. Millerites believe that the Son has an infinite understanding and only knows the present and the past and everything that the Father has revealed to Him with perfect exactness. So the Father is Omniscient but the Son is not. The Scriptural evidence for this doctrine is Revelation 1:1. There, the Father has reportedly given the resurrected Christ a vision of the future to give to the Apostle John.

LT · Jul 9, 2014

Christ gave up glory, and humbled Himself into human form. He then did the impossible, and regained glory.
He is submissive to the Father, as the Holy Spirit is submissive to Christ.

Does submission mean infinitely inferior?

If a man told his wife that the Bible says he was infinitely greater than her because it says she is to submit to him, he'd be pretty stupid.

Shubee · Jul 9, 2014

LT said:

Is that my argument?

LT · Jul 9, 2014

Shubee said:

You don't actually have an argument. There is no Scripture that shows Christ being infinitely inferior to the Father.

StoneThrower · Jul 9, 2014

Shubee said:

Its also more commonly called heresy!
How is Christ God by imputation I cant wait to hear this.

God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself

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