Stuck in our private interpretation of scripture
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Yup Stop Look Listen concern and think,
chill out and have a drink
people are stuck up a tree
they need prayer that sets them free.
A scripture about lying in cow dung can not be nice
we need believers to break that ice.
a scripture about prayer can be Good
that is when we all say thank you bud.
a scripture about being prudent can be wise.
where love provails and we start to baptize.
amen an God bless
chill out and have a drink
people are stuck up a tree
they need prayer that sets them free.
A scripture about lying in cow dung can not be nice
we need believers to break that ice.
a scripture about prayer can be Good
that is when we all say thank you bud.
a scripture about being prudent can be wise.
where love provails and we start to baptize.
amen an God bless
In context of what I was saying I said in the paragraph you quoted that "ad(sic) I know you(you) are not of any of the former i(sic) have mentioned,because (I was listening),ect.,,,,,,,,meaning that in the full post of mine the other denominations that i mentioned(s.d.a.,millerite,wwgog,ect.) I understood you(Redtent) were not a member of any of these,that is in your post in other threads you state the churches you had gone to and that you for the last several years had been studying with another group,(not that i am attacking any of the groups you mentioned).
I myself I note by many to be grouped(lump-summed) together with one group(denomination) or another,why I do not know I have never claimed to be of any other than "Christian". Years ago I realized that it does little good to state some things over the www of personal stance of position,that is as soon as one does then others will begin to attack. They will then post links digging up the dirt so to say on the former members of the religion(every religion they do this with) and so proving the the thing you said in the o.p.,,"Stuck in our private interpretation of scripture".
As I said I rarely ever in my post state things of my own belief,not that i am ashamed of it,but rather I note that it if said would change the topic from one thing being discussed to whether or not I personally am in err or not. So I look at everyone discussing one matter or another on the thread(s) and think,,"If they read/studied this portion of scripture,break it down ect. the answer is sitting there and so if they do they will find it". So then I most times ask a Question(not that i do not know the answer) but if they answer the question they will be looking at the key points concerning what they are discussing. lol,Most times this is answered by,"you know better than that,ect.ect.",,
LoL,,, I do know better than that, but I also know that it is very difficult to say something to someone without them feeling humbled,so in practice I notice it is(or just works faster) if I ask something and let them dig for the answer and figure it out on their own(it just makes them feel better that way). Now,not that i think i know everything!,,lol in my own thread the other day me and another agreed we thought the the letter in acts 15 was "probably the first letter/epistle in the n.t.",,now I thought that to be true and I agreed,but based on another question that arose(and i had to study/research to answer it),and now I no longer think this but rather that Galatians was written before the letter in acts 15(so I notice that I can even still learn,and do not know everything).
You ask me about acts 15;21(but I never answered you),the reason was we already have threads concerning that issue and I was wanting to something else in that o.p. but as I say I rarely state opinions public,look in post 18(this thread) at the second paragraph I told you my position on both. Past that point in my post I spoke of how (others) were going to react to the issues of the law and the sabbath and (why).
You ask if listening is the key to reading scripture,,yes it is.,,,,,,"Is listening to others the key to reading why and what they believe?",,that is as I stated that if "we stand in their shoes",,then we are listening to them and then will understand what they believe and why.
I myself I note by many to be grouped(lump-summed) together with one group(denomination) or another,why I do not know I have never claimed to be of any other than "Christian". Years ago I realized that it does little good to state some things over the www of personal stance of position,that is as soon as one does then others will begin to attack. They will then post links digging up the dirt so to say on the former members of the religion(every religion they do this with) and so proving the the thing you said in the o.p.,,"Stuck in our private interpretation of scripture".
As I said I rarely ever in my post state things of my own belief,not that i am ashamed of it,but rather I note that it if said would change the topic from one thing being discussed to whether or not I personally am in err or not. So I look at everyone discussing one matter or another on the thread(s) and think,,"If they read/studied this portion of scripture,break it down ect. the answer is sitting there and so if they do they will find it". So then I most times ask a Question(not that i do not know the answer) but if they answer the question they will be looking at the key points concerning what they are discussing. lol,Most times this is answered by,"you know better than that,ect.ect.",,
LoL,,, I do know better than that, but I also know that it is very difficult to say something to someone without them feeling humbled,so in practice I notice it is(or just works faster) if I ask something and let them dig for the answer and figure it out on their own(it just makes them feel better that way). Now,not that i think i know everything!,,lol in my own thread the other day me and another agreed we thought the the letter in acts 15 was "probably the first letter/epistle in the n.t.",,now I thought that to be true and I agreed,but based on another question that arose(and i had to study/research to answer it),and now I no longer think this but rather that Galatians was written before the letter in acts 15(so I notice that I can even still learn,and do not know everything).
You ask me about acts 15;21(but I never answered you),the reason was we already have threads concerning that issue and I was wanting to something else in that o.p. but as I say I rarely state opinions public,look in post 18(this thread) at the second paragraph I told you my position on both. Past that point in my post I spoke of how (others) were going to react to the issues of the law and the sabbath and (why).
You ask if listening is the key to reading scripture,,yes it is.,,,,,,"Is listening to others the key to reading why and what they believe?",,that is as I stated that if "we stand in their shoes",,then we are listening to them and then will understand what they believe and why.
That is exactly why I started this post so people would think deeply about this! We must not hammer on the same verses but humbly open our minds to all of scripture. When we decide that a scripture has just one meaning and we are not open to all of scripture, it even distorts the meaning of the few scriptures that people allow in their heart and mind. When we do that people only say some scriptures are not valid, or the person who brought up other scriptures are #@%$#, or anything but scripture to come to all truth, for they are sure the truth they have is complete and it hurts pride to confess scripture has something more to say.
I can't imagine what your point is. Scripture tells of this happening, but it does not say we should follow. Japtheth got caught up in reading just one scripture without reading all of what God said, or he never would have disobeyed God when he was told about love and justice. He heard only one scripture.
Regarding the OP.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Paul confused a lot of people, but not because of him, but because of their lack of understanding in his works and words and what they mean. What folks fail to understand is that Paul was a STRICT Jew, and followed all the laws of the Torah. When one realizes this and shifts their view to align with it, reading the letters of Paul is a whole different experience.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Paul confused a lot of people, but not because of him, but because of their lack of understanding in his works and words and what they mean. What folks fail to understand is that Paul was a STRICT Jew, and followed all the laws of the Torah. When one realizes this and shifts their view to align with it, reading the letters of Paul is a whole different experience.
I think this is an excellent topic! I think the entire Bible Discussion Forum is completely on the wrong track, in my opinion.
For one thing, a lot of what is discussed are different aspects of theology. So rather than just discussing Bible texts, we are supporting ideas (And some of them true, of course!) rather than trying to rightly divide and apply the Word of God.
I have been in a Bible study on FB for 5 years now. We started with Oswald's Chambers' book "My Utmost for His Highest." Then we agreed to discuss the Bible. We have gone through most of the Bible, chapter by chapter, taking the verses and discussing them, posting pictures, and songs, and comments from commentaries and mostly how the chapter or a verse struck us. Of course, the Study is made up of pastors, missionaries and students, who are devoted to studying the Word. So we do have high standards! And mostly from the same denomination, which makes things a bit easier.
I think we should have a theology forum, to discuss the issues mentioned in the OP. Certainly it is valid to discuss these differences of opinions, and to learn from one another. Then we could leave the Bible Discussion Forum to actually discuss Bible verses. Or whole passages or chapters!
The trouble is, people like controversy. They would rather argue for 100 pages and support their favorite doctrines with Scriptures torn out of context. Or ignore the original languages, which is often what theology comes down to. Or defend there most cherished doctrine! Or actually uncover traditional Christian doctrines, by digging into the Word of God. There is certainly a time and place for that!
So is there any support for having separate Bible and Theology forums? I for one, would just love to discuss the Bible itself, rather than people's closely held opinions. No one is likely going to talk me out of most of what I believed. But I can always learn a bit more about the actual Bible. Or maybe I am just a dreamer? I guess I can only hope!
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15
For one thing, a lot of what is discussed are different aspects of theology. So rather than just discussing Bible texts, we are supporting ideas (And some of them true, of course!) rather than trying to rightly divide and apply the Word of God.
I have been in a Bible study on FB for 5 years now. We started with Oswald's Chambers' book "My Utmost for His Highest." Then we agreed to discuss the Bible. We have gone through most of the Bible, chapter by chapter, taking the verses and discussing them, posting pictures, and songs, and comments from commentaries and mostly how the chapter or a verse struck us. Of course, the Study is made up of pastors, missionaries and students, who are devoted to studying the Word. So we do have high standards! And mostly from the same denomination, which makes things a bit easier.
I think we should have a theology forum, to discuss the issues mentioned in the OP. Certainly it is valid to discuss these differences of opinions, and to learn from one another. Then we could leave the Bible Discussion Forum to actually discuss Bible verses. Or whole passages or chapters!
The trouble is, people like controversy. They would rather argue for 100 pages and support their favorite doctrines with Scriptures torn out of context. Or ignore the original languages, which is often what theology comes down to. Or defend there most cherished doctrine! Or actually uncover traditional Christian doctrines, by digging into the Word of God. There is certainly a time and place for that!
So is there any support for having separate Bible and Theology forums? I for one, would just love to discuss the Bible itself, rather than people's closely held opinions. No one is likely going to talk me out of most of what I believed. But I can always learn a bit more about the actual Bible. Or maybe I am just a dreamer? I guess I can only hope!
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15
P
What I see is not a theology difference of opinion, but a doctrinal difference.
For the sake of argument I will use the definition of doctrine as a principal, a body of principals, a policy, teaching, or instruction.
The bible only has one doctrine. When we differ in that regard, one, and sometimes both, are wrong. Believing something the bible does not teach. When we discuss doctrine outside sources can certainly help, but if one studies and prays, the Lord will reveal all unknown scripture to us.
When we talk about basic things, homosexuality, murder, salacious dress or action, any of those things are clearly laid out for us. The law, Peter as the authority for the church, Pauls credibility, who God talked to and when....all of those are easily revealed by studying the bible without need of outside literature.
The biggest stumbling block on this forum is people taking for doctrine the teaching of men. When I got saved I buried my nose in the bible and on my knees. I asked God for knowledge of His word. I spent, for a year or more, at least 3 hours a day reading and studying the bible. When someone told me something, whether they were simply parishioners or preachers, I looked it up. I didn't take anyones word at face value. Paul had no problem being checked out, and neither does anyone else if they are speaking gospel.
The problem is people will not let go of what they have been taught when clear scripture disputes it. My dad was a bible man. Maybe 15 of my customers were preachers. Anytime someone came in for service I would tell them: "Bring me something from the bible, talk to me about the Lord while I work on your car, and your bill will diminish". Believe me, people want to lower their auto repair bill and I talked about the bible a lot.
I have been corrected, and I have corrected. At the end of the day the bible MUST be accepted as the final authority, and when that happens people will indeed have the mind of Christ. We will agree if we understand the bible. It only has one meaning.
For the sake of argument I will use the definition of doctrine as a principal, a body of principals, a policy, teaching, or instruction.
The bible only has one doctrine. When we differ in that regard, one, and sometimes both, are wrong. Believing something the bible does not teach. When we discuss doctrine outside sources can certainly help, but if one studies and prays, the Lord will reveal all unknown scripture to us.
When we talk about basic things, homosexuality, murder, salacious dress or action, any of those things are clearly laid out for us. The law, Peter as the authority for the church, Pauls credibility, who God talked to and when....all of those are easily revealed by studying the bible without need of outside literature.
The biggest stumbling block on this forum is people taking for doctrine the teaching of men. When I got saved I buried my nose in the bible and on my knees. I asked God for knowledge of His word. I spent, for a year or more, at least 3 hours a day reading and studying the bible. When someone told me something, whether they were simply parishioners or preachers, I looked it up. I didn't take anyones word at face value. Paul had no problem being checked out, and neither does anyone else if they are speaking gospel.
The problem is people will not let go of what they have been taught when clear scripture disputes it. My dad was a bible man. Maybe 15 of my customers were preachers. Anytime someone came in for service I would tell them: "Bring me something from the bible, talk to me about the Lord while I work on your car, and your bill will diminish". Believe me, people want to lower their auto repair bill and I talked about the bible a lot.
I have been corrected, and I have corrected. At the end of the day the bible MUST be accepted as the final authority, and when that happens people will indeed have the mind of Christ. We will agree if we understand the bible. It only has one meaning.
That is the way I have been trying to use this forum. There are always those who personally attack me for using what I find in the bible, and usually because they use only one group of scriptures. If a new idea is presented to them, few look into scripture to check on that new way of interpretation or thinking about it, even if the idea is only scripture based. They feel their way of thinking is threatened, instead, and simply attack.
For instance, in my latest studies I find that scripture supports that Paul was Torah based, and in Acts when he was accused of not being, he was cleared of that by two courts. I would love to have bible students explore that with scripture with me but very few people are able to. They would only quote scriptures saying he was against the law of Moses, and to say that meant he was against all of Torah, it was clear, so looking at scripture closer is out, no discussion or accepting other scriptures. Probably I would be personally attacked for bring up the study suggestion. Usually, what they have learned of scripture is true, I am just suggesting a deeper way of seeing it including other scripture, they simply reject any further scriptures on a subject. Usually, they state you have decide what scripture to belief in, not that there is truth in two different scriptures. With this attitude you cannot learn and even discussing scripture becomes an argument to them.
Your class is a success with growth of the people in the class because they are open to scripture and each other.
For instance, in my latest studies I find that scripture supports that Paul was Torah based, and in Acts when he was accused of not being, he was cleared of that by two courts. I would love to have bible students explore that with scripture with me but very few people are able to. They would only quote scriptures saying he was against the law of Moses, and to say that meant he was against all of Torah, it was clear, so looking at scripture closer is out, no discussion or accepting other scriptures. Probably I would be personally attacked for bring up the study suggestion. Usually, what they have learned of scripture is true, I am just suggesting a deeper way of seeing it including other scripture, they simply reject any further scriptures on a subject. Usually, they state you have decide what scripture to belief in, not that there is truth in two different scriptures. With this attitude you cannot learn and even discussing scripture becomes an argument to them.
Your class is a success with growth of the people in the class because they are open to scripture and each other.
P
thank the Lord "He" knows and orders each of our steps and knows "exactly" where each of us is in our walk with Him. because knowing that I don't have all the wisdom and it is the Lord who gives wisdom to us.. I know He is a perfect teacher and reveals all things according to His timing of our need to know. He is a teacher who arrives on time, every time...
how great the day is when all can share according to what God is revealing to us as individuals as well as to us as a body of believers
how great the day is when all can share according to what God is revealing to us as individuals as well as to us as a body of believers