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K
I do read my bible and it does say they are fooled by false teachers.
This is not a hypothetical situation that has not happened yet. You need to get and talk to more people if that is what you think.
There are many out there that were once devoted followers of Jesus Christ, that are now non-believers in Him again do to a false teaching they have fallen to, or a trial or tribulation that happened in their life that drew them to stop believing.
True fact: There are some known atheist's out there that were once devoted Christians.
Yet osas supporters would say they were never saved, or if they were saved they still are saved.
Yet our Lord says that if you do not believe in Him, or deny Him you will not be saved.
Which is what atheists do.
The dog that turns to his own vomit is one who loves their sins more than they love the Lord. Which is why they turn from loving the Lord to going back to living in sin, which results in no salvation.
This is not a hypothetical situation that has not happened yet. You need to get and talk to more people if that is what you think.
There are many out there that were once devoted followers of Jesus Christ, that are now non-believers in Him again do to a false teaching they have fallen to, or a trial or tribulation that happened in their life that drew them to stop believing.
True fact: There are some known atheist's out there that were once devoted Christians.
Yet osas supporters would say they were never saved, or if they were saved they still are saved.
Yet our Lord says that if you do not believe in Him, or deny Him you will not be saved.
Which is what atheists do.
The dog that turns to his own vomit is one who loves their sins more than they love the Lord. Which is why they turn from loving the Lord to going back to living in sin, which results in no salvation.
Because God is Faithful, to carry on the good work God started in you, which is not explainable, you just know God will never leave you nor forsake you, and you definitely do not ever want to take it for granted,
There is the answer Brother, and you are assured in this by Romans 8:16 from God and no other
There is the answer Brother, and you are assured in this by Romans 8:16 from God and no other
And come to see t is God who worketh I you to bring you home to him
Philippians 2:12-13New International Version (NIV)[h=3]Do Everything Without Grumbling[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Philippians 2:12-13New International Version (NIV)[h=3]Do Everything Without Grumbling[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Really ho wants to walk out on their sins being freely forgiven:
Psalm 100:4
Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.
Psalm 103:12New International Version (NIV)[SUP]12 [/SUP]as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
Matthew 9:5
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 7:47 [Full Chapter]
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Ephesians 1:7
in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 4:32
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
Psalm 100:4
Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.
Psalm 103:12New International Version (NIV)[SUP]12 [/SUP]as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
Matthew 9:5
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 7:47 [Full Chapter]
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Ephesians 1:7
in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 4:32
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
K
That is right, nobody snatches us away from the Lord.
It falls on our own personal choices;
Some personally choose to follow Jesus fully
Some personally choose to follow him, and do to trials and tribulations in life stop following Him. ( Fall away )
Some personally choose to follow him, but then start listening to false teaching. ( They believe the lies, instead of our Lord )
Some personally choose to believe He is Lord, but in their works deny Him.
Read the sower and the seed ( it talks about different acceptances of the word ), read Matthew 25 ( separation of the sheep from the goats ), both believe Jesus as Lord but only one group gets eternal life.
It falls on our own personal choices;
Some personally choose to follow Jesus fully
Some personally choose to follow him, and do to trials and tribulations in life stop following Him. ( Fall away )
Some personally choose to follow him, but then start listening to false teaching. ( They believe the lies, instead of our Lord )
Some personally choose to believe He is Lord, but in their works deny Him.
Read the sower and the seed ( it talks about different acceptances of the word ), read Matthew 25 ( separation of the sheep from the goats ), both believe Jesus as Lord but only one group gets eternal life.
My views on OSAS is that it is a moot point and something someone has come up with to ease thier mind over the death of someone who went up for the call at a revival then did nothing afterwards.
You see, I backslide big time, but deep down my spirit still knew Holy Spirit and I still knew that God was God and Jesus was son of God etc, sure I ran off from the flock, but I was still that sheep owned and looked after by our great shepherd.
If you genuinally know Jesus and Holy Spirit, then you know what fate awaits you, if you struggle to follow Jesus and keep messing up, so what, you are still that sheep owned by Jesus. Genuine born again beleivers know Jesus, even like myself we do a runner, further we are under the transformation process, we know things are wrong and feel guilty doing them, thats Holy Spirit.
Therefore to conclude, anyone who uses OSAS to just go off and do what they like and continue in a hedonistic and immoral life style without even being nagged by Holy Spirit or feeling any guilt or remorse and just continue to revel in their sin, then it is most likely they were not even born again in the first place and do not know God.
You see, I backslide big time, but deep down my spirit still knew Holy Spirit and I still knew that God was God and Jesus was son of God etc, sure I ran off from the flock, but I was still that sheep owned and looked after by our great shepherd.
If you genuinally know Jesus and Holy Spirit, then you know what fate awaits you, if you struggle to follow Jesus and keep messing up, so what, you are still that sheep owned by Jesus. Genuine born again beleivers know Jesus, even like myself we do a runner, further we are under the transformation process, we know things are wrong and feel guilty doing them, thats Holy Spirit.
Therefore to conclude, anyone who uses OSAS to just go off and do what they like and continue in a hedonistic and immoral life style without even being nagged by Holy Spirit or feeling any guilt or remorse and just continue to revel in their sin, then it is most likely they were not even born again in the first place and do not know God.
The dog and sow analogy refers to the Christian that has fallen away, not the Christian that remains faithful.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
The "them" in verse 22 does not refer to the faithful Christian but to the fallen Christians that "are again entangled therein, and overcome", the fallen Christians that "have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them".
OSAS implies Peter's analogies about the dog and sow are wrong for OSAS says it is impossible for either analogy to ever happen.
At what point do you decide that someone has back slide? What point is rejecting God? Sin is rebellion, just committing one sin is rebellion, how much do you think you have to sin before God gets his rubber out and erases your name in the Lambs Book?
Christ made it clear with the stories and parables of the Lost sheep etc. Even no matter where the sheep goes or how far it roams, the good shepherd will follow it, find it and try to lead it back, but it still belongs to HIM.
I bring back the point that people who use OSAS as a way to continue with their lifestyles are not really born again and know Christ, it seems incomprehensible that someone who encountered Jesus and engages in that relationship then just ignores it and rejects Jesus.
This is also the same when people say they have converted from Christian to atheist or Islam or other religion, surely they were never born again and knew CHrist in the first place.
Backsliding is when a person has quit doing God's righteousness and is doing and living in unrighteousness. A Christian can turn and backslide by living in adultery. Is he still saved while continuing to live in that back slidden state of adultery?
In your post #30 you seem to be claiming a Christian can backslide yet still be in a saved position. If so, then you are arguing that OSAS allows a Christian to live in a back slidden state (as adultery) and still be saved...which is a license to sin, to live back slidden, a license to live in adultery.
But then you post that one who "continue to revel in their sin, then it is most likely they were not even born again"
So on one hand you claim one who continues to live in sin was never saved to begin with but you also argue a Christian can continue to live in a back slidden state but is still saved. Right?
In your post #30 you seem to be claiming a Christian can backslide yet still be in a saved position. If so, then you are arguing that OSAS allows a Christian to live in a back slidden state (as adultery) and still be saved...which is a license to sin, to live back slidden, a license to live in adultery.
But then you post that one who "continue to revel in their sin, then it is most likely they were not even born again"
So on one hand you claim one who continues to live in sin was never saved to begin with but you also argue a Christian can continue to live in a back slidden state but is still saved. Right?
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SO, what happens when you sin Sea PERCH? How long do you have to repent before you loose your salvation? What does it take to get it back? How many times have you sinned and lost it? Can you be saved, sin loose it, regain it and how many times can you do this....Hebrews says it is IMPOSSIBLE to be re-saved...so if you sin once is it lost for ever?
In the Father's HAND
In the Hand of Jesus
Sealed by the Spirit of Promise
I will LOOSE none that thou hast given me
WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL.....except salvation? God must be weak if he can save me and not keep me saved!
In the Father's HAND
In the Hand of Jesus
Sealed by the Spirit of Promise
I will LOOSE none that thou hast given me
WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL.....except salvation? God must be weak if he can save me and not keep me saved!
I posted this yesterday in the thread "Can you lose the Holy Spirit?"
I don't know if you want to call it OSAS or eternal security . . . . I call it being "sealed" and also being "born" of and by the Spirit. That seal or birth is not broken but remains until the day of redemption when Christ comes for his "purchased possessions". [Eph. 1:14] BTW, if we can not lose the Holy Spirit with which we have been born again then we cannot lose salvation . . . . .
I don't know if you want to call it OSAS or eternal security . . . . I call it being "sealed" and also being "born" of and by the Spirit. That seal or birth is not broken but remains until the day of redemption when Christ comes for his "purchased possessions". [Eph. 1:14] BTW, if we can not lose the Holy Spirit with which we have been born again then we cannot lose salvation . . . . .
HAHAHHA Sometimes a Christian will compare themselves to a dog HAHHAHH.....I am like the dog that licks from the crumbs that fall from the dog's mouth that has already eaten at the master's table HAHAH