Baptism symbol only ?

newbirth · Oct 20, 2014

Jesus died on the cross for the sins of all men.....but how does an individual obtain remission of sins....

Acts 2:38-39American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

gzusfrk · Oct 21, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

At the least, it is obedience to the Gospel of Christ.

Dogknox · Oct 21, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

I reply: You twist it!!!!
Jesus died and by dying and resurrecting he destroyed death! PACEMAKER Death is no more!!!!!
The question is NOT "will I live forever?", it is "WHERE will I live forever!?"

Baptism washes away all sins!!!!
Because Jesus died and ascended into heaven, we now have his gift of the Holy Spirit!
PACEMAKER The Church was NOT empowered to Baptize until Pentecost and the receiving of the Holy Spirit!
If Jesus did not resurrect, he would not have sent the Holy Spirit that makes us God' children!
He told the Church to wait until they receive the Holy Spirit! He sent the Holy Spirit to the Church at Pentecost, he still sends the Holy Spirit today to the newly Baptized!

God' children are without sin, sin is washed away by the waters of Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Spirit makes us God' children!

LOOK.. All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

LOOK.. (above) All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! ALL....
PACEMAKER All IN JESUS' Resurrected Body can't die!

God has only ONE Son!! Just ONE SON! Not two not ten sons...."JUST ONE (1) SON"!! If you are NOT IN Jesus then you are NOT God' Child!

>>>>>>You MUST be ADDED to the Body of Jesus to call God "father"! <<<<<<<<

Mother Church does the re-Forming with the waters of Baptism!
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit!
The Christian has a Mother and Father!
PACEMAKER You are Mother-less so you are also Father-less! You reject church!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Church does the saving by Baptizing!
"Go and make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING!"
Baptism makes DISCIPLES!!!!
PACEMAKER Disciples are "IN" God' family!
"Pointing to his DISCIPLES; Here are my BROTHERS"!

PACEMAKER · Oct 21, 2014

Dogknox said:

I reply: You twist it!!!!
Jesus died and by dying and resurrecting he destroyed death! PACEMAKER Death is no more!!!!!
The question is NOT "will I live forever?", it is "WHERE will I live forever!?"

Baptism washes away all sins!!!!
Because Jesus died and ascended into heaven, we now have his gift of the Holy Spirit!
PACEMAKER The Church was NOT empowered to Baptize until Pentecost and the receiving of the Holy Spirit!
If Jesus did not resurrect, he would not have sent the Holy Spirit that makes us God' children!
He told the Church to wait until they receive the Holy Spirit! He sent the Holy Spirit to the Church at Pentecost, he still sends the Holy Spirit today to the newly Baptized!

God' children are without sin, sin is washed away by the waters of Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Spirit makes us God' children!

LOOK.. All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

LOOK.. (above) All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! ALL....
PACEMAKER All IN JESUS' Resurrected Body can't die!

God has only ONE Son!! Just ONE SON! Not two not ten sons...."JUST ONE (1) SON"!! If you are NOT IN Jesus then you are NOT God' Child!

>>>>>>You MUST be ADDED to the Body of Jesus to call God "father"! <<<<<<<<

Mother Church does the re-Forming with the waters of Baptism!
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit!
The Christian has a Mother and Father!
PACEMAKER You are Mother-less so you are also Father-less! You reject church!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Church does the saving by Baptizing!
"Go and make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING!"
Baptism makes DISCIPLES!!!!
PACEMAKER Disciples are "IN" God' family!
"Pointing to his DISCIPLES; Here are my BROTHERS"!

[h=1] Acts 3:19New International Version (NIV)
[/h] [SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent, then,
and turn to God,
so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

This is plain language that a Child could Understand
No Twisting the meaning of words
Or Adding the word "water baptism" is allowed...

Dogknox · Oct 21, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

REPENT and be BAPTIZED!!!!
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

PACEMAKER Repent and turn to God!!!!!!
God sends the Holy Spirit to those baptized!

Acts 2 comes before acts 3!

Scriptures (God) tell you "Baptism saves!"! God tells you "Baptism washes away sins"!

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

Acts 22 (above) comes after Acts 3!!!!

Acts 8 comes after Acts 3...
PACEMAKER Philip is TEACHING the Eunuch; "Baptism saves!!!!"
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

God wanted the Eunuch >>BAPTIZED<<! Philips work was not completed until the Eunuch was BAPTIZED!!!!!!

Jesus commissioned his Church to BAPTIZE all nations to make DISCIPLES!
Baptism makes DISCIPLES!!!!!
Disciples are saved!!!!
PACEMAKER Baptize all nations with the AUTHORITY of God; Baptize all in God' name, for God, representing God, speaking for God baptize all nations!

PACEMAKER · Oct 21, 2014

Dogknox said:

Romans chapter 4 These are words from the Scriptures
NOT some mans Opinion about what words mean....

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]If, IN FACT.....
Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]What does Scripture say?
“Abraham believed God,
and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to the one who works,
wages are NOT credited as a gift
but as an obligation.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]However, to the one who does not work
but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one
to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[SUP][/SUP]

Again where is the word "water baptism" ???
Used for the forgiveness of Sins???

PACEMAKER · Oct 21, 2014

Dogknox said:

dogknox,
Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand.
In the case of baptism and salvation,

the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ,
not by works of any kind, including "water baptism" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism,
or any other act, is necessary for salvation,
is a faulty interpretation.

Acts 22:16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."

The first question that must be answered is "when was Paul saved?"

Paul tells that he did not receive or hear the Gospel from Ananias, but rather he heard it directly from Christ.
Galatians 1:11-12 says, "For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ."
So, Paul heard and believed in Christ on the road to Damascus. Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17).

It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he also received the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--
this was before he was baptized (Acts 9:18).
Acts presents a transition period where God's focus turns from Israel to the Church. The events recorded in Acts are not always normative. With regard to receiving the Holy Spirit, the norm is that a person receives and
is permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.
Concerning the words, "be baptized, and wash away your sins," because Paul was already cleansed spiritually at the time Christ appeared to him,
It is also interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all.
Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him.

It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him.

dogknox, It is Important to remember that the Scriptures do Not Contradict themselves..
And your belief about the Power of "water baptism" would Contradict Sctiptures..

Acts 22:16 there are four statements in this verse ..

Get up and be baptized go together
Have your sins washed away

How??? by calling on the name of the Lord...

If you do Not agree with this meaning of this in verse 16
Then what does "calling on the name of the Lord"
refer to in this verse ???

Dogknox · Oct 21, 2014

Thank you for your reply:
FACT: Saved by faith ALONE is a LIE! It was unheard of for the first seventeen hundred years!
It is NOT biblical!
You mention Romans 4 4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]If, IN FACT.....
Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.

I REPLY: The WORKS mentioned is "Works of the LAW"! Read it in CONTEXT!!!!!!!!
Abraham was NOT CIRCUMCISED!!!!!
PACEMAKER WHY.....
Why did you stop reading at verse # 2?????????
Romans 4:9
Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before?

PACEMAKER **QUESTION was Abraham CIRCUMCISED??? Did his CIRCUMCISION; Justify him??????!!! >> Your answer here <<

* Clearly the "WORKS" mentioned in verse 2 (above) is "Works of the law"!!! Nothing >>>> NO THING about salvation by faith ALONE!!!

PACEMAKER LOOK..... This makes it even more clear....

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do.11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

PACEMAKER Do you see verse #10 "WE ARE TO DO GOOD WORKS"!!!!!!

Clearly the "Not of WORKS" in verse #9 (above) is again telling us about>> "Works of the LAW" verse #11 makes this clear... The THEREFORE at the start of verse #11 puts it into CONTEXT!!!
**QUESTION.. Is Circumcision a work of the hand or the heart!?
The Therefore's found in scripture ALWAYS put all that came before the THEREFORE into CONTEXT after the THEREFORE!! PACEMAKER Ephesians is NOT talking about salvation by Faith ALONE! It is telling you "We are to do Good Works and your Circumcision will NOT save you!!!!!!!!

Answer the **QUESTIONS!!

God does NOT LIE!!!!!
21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

not by faith alone

Dogknox · Oct 21, 2014

Your words...
Acts 3:19New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent, then,
and turn to God,
so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

This is plain language that a Child could Understand
No Twisting the meaning of words
Or Adding the word "water baptism" is allowed...

I reply: Turning to God is "BELIEVING the words of God"!!!

Repent, turn to God and BELIEVE the words of the WORD!!!
The words of God>>> 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

PACEMAKER The words of God... BE BAPTIZED for the forgiveness of your sins!!!!

PACEMAKER Believe God: John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

[h=1]Colossians 2 [/h]9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

PACEMAKER Baptism ADDS Christians to the RESURRECTED Jesus!
12 having been buried with him in baptism,

PACEMAKER Because all are ADDED to Christ by Baptism, Christians are "IN Christ"!

PACEMAKER · Oct 21, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dogkox,

I appreciate your civil response But I do Not agree with your opinion of what Scriptures say
Remember that Scriptures can Not Contradict themselves.
So, If Scriptures say that one person is Saved With Out "water baptism"
Then others can also..

Here is my reply to Acts 2:38 verse..
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation,
is a faulty interpretation.

There is an important difference between a condition of salvation
and a requirement for salvation.
The Bible is clear that belief is both a condition and a requirement,
but the same cannot be said for “water baptism”.

The Bible does not say that if a man is not baptized

then he will not be saved.

One can add any number of conditions to faith
(which is required for salvation),
and the person can still be saved.
For example if a person believes,
is “water baptized”, goes to church, and gives to the poor
he will be saved.

Where the error in thinking occurs is
if one assumes all these other conditions,
“water baptism, going to church, giving to the poor,”
are required for one to be saved.

While they might be the evidence of salvation,

they are not a requirement for salvation.

The FACT that baptism is not required to receive forgiveness

and the gift of the Holy Spirit should also be evident by
simply reading a little farther in the book of Acts.

In Acts 10:43, Peter tells Cornelius that “through His name everyone
who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins”

(please note that nothing at this point has been mentioned about being “water baptized”,

yet Peter connects believing in Christ
with the act of receiving forgiveness for sins).

The next thing that happens is,
having believed

Peter’s message about Christ,
The “Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were

listening to the message”

(Acts 10:44). It is only after they had BELIEVED

and therefore received forgiveness of their sins
and the gift of the Holy Spirit,

that Cornelius and his household were baptized

(Acts 10:47-48). The context and the passage are very clear;
Cornelius and his household received both forgiveness of sins
and the Holy Spirit before they were ever baptized.

In fact, the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized
was that they showed evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit
“just as Peter and the Jewish believers” had.

In conclusion, Acts 2:38 does not teach
that baptism is required for salvation.

While baptism is important as the sign that one
has been justified by faith
and as the public declaration of one’s faith in Christ
and membership in a local body of believers,

it is not the means of remission or forgiveness of sins.

Dogknox, check these verses below and Ask God for the Honest Truth
in the meaning of His Word
and Not what you have been told by man that it says

The Bible is very clear that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (John 1:12; John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:21-30; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:9; Galatians 2:16).

PACEMAKER · Oct 22, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dogknox,
When it comes to the matter of our salvation,

the New Testament writers use different Greek words—
words that emphasize the gracious
and absolutely free quality of the gift.

Here are the two words most commonly used

for the gift of salvation:

1) Dorea, meaning “a free gift.” This word lays particular stress on the gratuitous nature of the gift—it is something given above and beyond what is expected or deserved.
Every New Testament occurrence of this word is related to a spiritual gift from God. It is what Jesus offers to the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:10).
It is called the “free gift” in Romans 5:15.

It is the “unspeakable [or indescribable] gift” in 2 Corinthians 9:15.
This gracious gift is identified as the Holy Spirit

in Acts 2:38; 8:30; and 11:17.

The adverb form of this word is dorean,
translated “freely”
in Matthew 10:8; 2 Corinthians 11:7; Revelation 21:6; 22:17.

In Romans 3:24, immediately following God’s
pronouncement of our guilt,
we have this use of dorean:

“Being justified FREELY by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”
The gift of salvation is free,

and the motive for the gift is nothing more
than the grace of the Giver.

2) Charisma, meaning “a gift of grace.”

This word is used to define salvation in Romans 5:15-16.
Also, in Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death,
but the GIFT [charisma] of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

This same word is used in conjunction with

the gifts of the Spirit received after salvation
(Romans 12:6; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Peter 4:10).

Obviously, if something is a “gift of grace,”

it cannot be earned.

To work for something is to deserve it,
and that would produce an obligation
—a gift of debt, as it were.

That is why works destroy grace (Romans 4:1-5; 11:5-6).

When presenting salvation,

the New Testament writers carefully chose words

that emphasize grace and freedom.

As a result, the Bible could not be more clear—
salvation is absolutely free,

the true gift of God in Christ,
and our only responsibility is

to receive the gift by faith
(John 1:12; 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9).

The “Good News” is that Christ came,
lived a perfect life,
died on the cross and rose from the dead
in order to give new life to dead sinners,
to deliver them from their sins
and give them eternal life with Him.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now I see.
‘Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear, And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear the hour I first believed!
Through many dangers, toils and snares, we have already come.
‘Twas Grace that brought us safe thus far and Grace will lead us home.
The Lord has promised good to me, His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be as long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail, and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil, a life of joy and peace.
When we've been here ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise than when we've first begun.
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now, I see.”
—“Amazing Grace” by John Newton.

dogknox, Just wondering if you Know of Any Songs that Sing about
Just how Powerful that you Believe
That "water baptism" is ???

If it were Not for the Blood of Christ
Just how Powerful would your Belief of "water baptism" be ??

I grew up in a church that Believes what you believe about "water baptism"
My family went every time that the doors were open
I stopped going when I turned 20 in 1970
My dad was one of the leaders of this church.
Just before he passed away; In 1994
He asked me to read the book of John
And told me that I needed to Know Jesus Christ
He said nothing about Needing to be "water baptized"
I started reading and came to know Jesus Christ
Most of my family still attends that church
And we have had numerous discussions on this topic
Through much prayer and asking God for guidance
For the Honest Truth on what His Word says
I came to Realize that
Doing Something like being "water baptized"
was Taking Away from what Jesus Christ did on the CROSS
We can Not keep All His Commands
So that is where our Faith, Trust, and Belief
That Jesus Christ did what He said that He did
And is who that He said that He Is
THE GREAT I AM
It is a Realization of a need of Repentance
and ones change of Heart
to make Jesus Christ as their Lord of their Life
And the Savior of their Soul
This Is the Moment that the "Holy Spirit" comes
and lives with us to guide us and direct us
As we grow closer and more Christ like in our lives
I can Not pray enough, witness enough, read His Word enough,
give enough time or money to Deserve Salvation
I depend on Christ Alone
HIS GRACE AND MERCY
Hope this helps you understand where I am coming from
with my Beliefs about "water baptism"

newbirth · Oct 22, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

Dogknox,
When it comes to the matter of our salvation,

the New Testament writers use different Greek words—
words that emphasize the gracious
and absolutely free quality of the gift.

Here are the two words most commonly used

for the gift of salvation:

1) Dorea, meaning “a free gift.” This word lays particular stress on the gratuitous nature of the gift—it is something given above and beyond what is expected or deserved.
Every New Testament occurrence of this word is related to a spiritual gift from God. It is what Jesus offers to the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:10).
It is called the “free gift” in Romans 5:15.

It is the “unspeakable [or indescribable] gift” in 2 Corinthians 9:15.
This gracious gift is identified as the Holy Spirit

in Acts 2:38; 8:30; and 11:17.

The adverb form of this word is dorean,
translated “freely”
in Matthew 10:8; 2 Corinthians 11:7; Revelation 21:6; 22:17.

In Romans 3:24, immediately following God’s
pronouncement of our guilt,
we have this use of dorean:

“Being justified FREELY by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”
The gift of salvation is free,

and the motive for the gift is nothing more
than the grace of the Giver.

2) Charisma, meaning “a gift of grace.”

This word is used to define salvation in Romans 5:15-16.
Also, in Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death,
but the GIFT [charisma] of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

This same word is used in conjunction with

the gifts of the Spirit received after salvation
(Romans 12:6; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Peter 4:10).

Obviously, if something is a “gift of grace,”

it cannot be earned.

To work for something is to deserve it,
and that would produce an obligation
—a gift of debt, as it were.

That is why works destroy grace (Romans 4:1-5; 11:5-6).

When presenting salvation,

the New Testament writers carefully chose words

that emphasize grace and freedom.

As a result, the Bible could not be more clear—
salvation is absolutely free,

the true gift of God in Christ,
and our only responsibility is

to receive the gift by faith
(John 1:12; 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9).

The “Good News” is that Christ came,
lived a perfect life,
died on the cross and rose from the dead
in order to give new life to dead sinners,
to deliver them from their sins
and give them eternal life with Him.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now I see.
‘Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear, And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear the hour I first believed!
Through many dangers, toils and snares, we have already come.
‘Twas Grace that brought us safe thus far and Grace will lead us home.
The Lord has promised good to me, His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be as long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail, and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil, a life of joy and peace.
When we've been here ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise than when we've first begun.
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now, I see.”
—“Amazing Grace” by John Newton.

dogknox, Just wondering if you Know of Any Songs that Sing about
Just how Powerful that you Believe
That "water baptism" is ???

If it were Not for the Blood of Christ
Just how Powerful would your Belief of "water baptism" be ??

I grew up in a church that Believes what you believe about "water baptism"
My family went every time that the doors were open
I stopped going when I turned 20 in 1970
My dad was one of the leaders of this church.
Just before he passed away; In 1994
He asked me to read the book of John
And told me that I needed to Know Jesus Christ
He said nothing about Needing to be "water baptized"
I started reading and came to know Jesus Christ
Most of my family still attends that church
And we have had numerous discussions on this topic
Through much prayer and asking God for guidance
For the Honest Truth on what His Word says
I came to Realize that
Doing Something like being "water baptized"
was Taking Away from what Jesus Christ did on the CROSS
We can Not keep All His Commands
So that is where our Faith, Trust, and Belief
That Jesus Christ did what He said that He did
And is who that He said that He Is
THE GREAT I AM
It is a Realization of a need of Repentance
and ones change of Heart
to make Jesus Christ as their Lord of their Life
And the Savior of their Soul
This Is the Moment that the "Holy Spirit" comes
and lives with us to guide us and direct us
As we grow closer and more Christ like in our lives
I can Not pray enough, witness enough, read His Word enough,
give enough time or money to Deserve Salvation
I depend on Christ Alone
HIS GRACE AND MERCY
Hope this helps you understand where I am coming from
with my Beliefs about "water baptism"

it is not so much where you are coming from but where you are going with your belief about water baptism....you think your teaching and belief is superior to the teachings of the apostles...and of Christ.... you came to realize....you must first realize what the scripture says...

Acts 2:36-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

PACEMAKER · Oct 23, 2014

Dogknox said:

I reply: You twist it!!!!
Jesus died and by dying and resurrecting he destroyed death! PACEMAKER Death is no more!!!!!
The question is NOT "will I live forever?", it is "WHERE will I live forever!?"

Baptism washes away all sins!!!!
Because Jesus died and ascended into heaven, we now have his gift of the Holy Spirit!
PACEMAKER The Church was NOT empowered to Baptize until Pentecost and the receiving of the Holy Spirit!
If Jesus did not resurrect, he would not have sent the Holy Spirit that makes us God' children!
He told the Church to wait until they receive the Holy Spirit! He sent the Holy Spirit to the Church at Pentecost, he still sends the Holy Spirit today to the newly Baptized!

God' children are without sin, sin is washed away by the waters of Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Spirit makes us God' children!

LOOK.. All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

LOOK.. (above) All baptized are added to the resurrected body of Jesus!
Baptism ADDS us to the Body of Jesus! ALL....
PACEMAKER All IN JESUS' Resurrected Body can't die!

God has only ONE Son!! Just ONE SON! Not two not ten sons...."JUST ONE (1) SON"!! If you are NOT IN Jesus then you are NOT God' Child!

>>>>>>You MUST be ADDED to the Body of Jesus to call God "father"! <<<<<<<<

Mother Church does the re-Forming with the waters of Baptism!
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit!
The Christian has a Mother and Father!
PACEMAKER You are Mother-less so you are also Father-less! You reject church!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Church does the saving by Baptizing!
"Go and make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING!"
Baptism makes DISCIPLES!!!!
PACEMAKER Disciples are "IN" God' family!
"Pointing to his DISCIPLES; Here are my BROTHERS"!

Dogknox
Please give me The verse in Scriptures that this Quote that you stated is found..

"Mother Church does the re-Forming with the waters of Baptism!"

PACEMAKER · Oct 23, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dogknox You have to take ALL Scriptures in their Context to Understand
the Honest Truth about "water baptism"
Apparently you have Not Read these verses that Contradict
your Belief about the Power of "water baptism"

Why did Paul say that he came NOT to "water baptize " in this verse
1 Corinthians 1:17-18New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize,
but to preach the gospel—
not with wisdom and eloquence,
lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

You are making “The Cross” loose it's meaning and Power
by Adding “water Baptism” for washing away sins

Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved
it is the power of God.
If you are SAVED
You are ADDED to the Church

Now , what is thee POWER of GOD???

I will answer it for you "THE CROSS?

It is the Message of the CROSS

NOT the message of "water baptism"

Now this is very plan that we are NOT Required
to be Water baptized" for our Salvation

There is No Power in the Water

Here is where the POWER IS in Scripture

When Jesus died on the cross,
He took upon Himself all the sin of the world

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

By taking the punishment for our sin, He cancelled the debt that each of us owes God
Colossians 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us;

He has taken it away, ( sin)
nailing it to the cross.

Where?? the Cross

So , Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for ALL of our Sins RIGHT??

Then just What Sins does "water baptism" wash away??

He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires
Galatians 3:10, For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. And 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a cross

Before a person meets Christ, he or she is enslaved by that sin nature
Romans 7:25; Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

How are we Delivered??
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—
for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” At the moment of conversion, we are given a new nature that has been freed from sin
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life
has set you free from the law of sin and death.

The entire chapter of Romans 6 explains this in detail.
Verse 14 says, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under GRACE"

GRACE has been defined,
not as a created substance of any kind,
but as "the love and mercy given to us by God
because God desires us to have it,
not because of anything we have done to earn it"
,[SUP][1][/SUP] "the condescension or benevolence shown by God toward the human race"
.[SUP][2][/SUP] It is understood by Christians to be a spontaneous gift from God to man -
"generous, free and totally unexpected and undeserved"
[SUP][3][/SUP] - that takes the form of divine favor, love, clemency,
and a share in the divine life of God.
is an attribute of God that is most manifest in the salvation of sinners.

Dogknox, you can take the work of "water baptism"
It Completely CONTRADICTS the defination of the word GRACE

I am Taking Gods GRACE

Revelation 3:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline.
So be earnest and REPENT
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Here I am! I stand at the door and knock.
If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,
I will come in and eat with that person,
and they with me.

Another verse that "water baptism" is Not Included
with Ones Initial Personal Relationship
With God through Jesus Christ

Dogknox,So, when your time comes and you meat your Maker
You are going to say
Remember when I was "water baptized"
for the forgiveness of my sins?????

You say that you believe in Jesus dying for All your sins
Yet you Think that you can tell God
that you have Done Something
that Deserves your Salvation
Can you Keep ALL the Commands
If you can Not
Then you need a Mediator
Jesus Covered ALL your Sins at the Cross
If you Sincerely Call out to God in Repentance
He is at the door
Open your Heart
And He will come to live with you
It is a FREE GIFT
You can only Accept the GIFT
Without Doing Anything Physically
for your Salvation

Again, just what Power does "water baptism" have

If Jesus Christ had Not made the Sacrifice for ALL Sins ????

What can wash away my sins ????

NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD..... AND "Water Baptism" ?????????????

When you sing this song
Do you ADD "water baptism" ??????????

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"
Refrain
Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain
Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain
This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain

Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain

Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

newbirth · Oct 23, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

Dogknox You have to take ALL Scriptures in their Context to Understand
the Honest Truth about "water baptism"
Apparently you have Not Read these verses that Contradict
your Belief about the Power of "water baptism"

Why did Paul say that he came NOT to "water baptize " in this verse
1 Corinthians 1:17-18New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize,
but to preach the gospel—
not with wisdom and eloquence,
lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

You are making “The Cross” loose it's meaning and Power
by Adding “water Baptism” for washing away sins

Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved
it is the power of God.
If you are SAVED
You are ADDED to the Church

Now , what is thee POWER of GOD???

I will answer it for you "THE CROSS?

It is the Message of the CROSS

NOT the message of "water baptism"

Now this is very plan that we are NOT Required
to be Water baptized" for our Salvation

There is No Power in the Water

Here is where the POWER IS in Scripture

When Jesus died on the cross,
He took upon Himself all the sin of the world

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

By taking the punishment for our sin, He cancelled the debt that each of us owes God
Colossians 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us;

He has taken it away, ( sin)
nailing it to the cross.

Where?? the Cross

So , Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for ALL of our Sins RIGHT??

Then just What Sins does "water baptism" wash away??

He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires
Galatians 3:10, For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. And 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a cross

Before a person meets Christ, he or she is enslaved by that sin nature
Romans 7:25; Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

How are we Delivered??
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—
for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” At the moment of conversion, we are given a new nature that has been freed from sin
Romans 6:18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 8:2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life
has set you free from the law of sin and death.

The entire chapter of Romans 6 explains this in detail.
Verse 14 says, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under GRACE"

GRACE has been defined,
not as a created substance of any kind,
but as "the love and mercy given to us by God
because God desires us to have it,
not because of anything we have done to earn it"
,[SUP][1][/SUP] "the condescension or benevolence shown by God toward the human race"
.[SUP][2][/SUP] It is understood by Christians to be a spontaneous gift from God to man -
"generous, free and totally unexpected and undeserved"
[SUP][3][/SUP] - that takes the form of divine favor, love, clemency,
and a share in the divine life of God.
is an attribute of God that is most manifest in the salvation of sinners.

Dogknox, you can take the work of "water baptism"
It Completely CONTRADICTS the defination of the word GRACE

I am Taking Gods GRACE

Revelation 3:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline.
So be earnest and REPENT
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Here I am! I stand at the door and knock.
If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,
I will come in and eat with that person,
and they with me.

Another verse that "water baptism" is Not Included
with Ones Initial Personal Relationship
With God through Jesus Christ

Dogknox,So, when your time comes and you meat your Maker
You are going to say
Remember when I was "water baptized"
for the forgiveness of my sins?????

You say that you believe in Jesus dying for All your sins
Yet you Think that you can tell God
that you have Done Something
that Deserves your Salvation
Can you Keep ALL the Commands
If you can Not
Then you need a Mediator
Jesus Covered ALL your Sins at the Cross
If you Sincerely Call out to God in Repentance
He is at the door
Open your Heart
And He will come to live with you
It is a FREE GIFT
You can only Accept the GIFT
Without Doing Anything Physically
for your Salvation

Again, just what Power does "water baptism" have

If Jesus Christ had Not made the Sacrifice for ALL Sins ????

What can wash away my sins ????

NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD..... AND "Water Baptism" ?????????????

When you sing this song
Do you ADD "water baptism" ??????????

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"
Refrain
Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain
Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain
This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain

Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

Refrain

Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus. AND "Water Baptism"

you simply do not understand Paul's writing and continue to make the same mistake....was Paul baptised?...yes... did he baptise anyone...yes...you conclude that the preaching of the cross does not include baptism....does he teach that one must not be baptised...no ...

1 Corinthians 1:10-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

tylerbones1313 · Oct 23, 2014

One drop of Christ's blood has enough power to forgive all sin past, present and future to all. But how is Christ's blood applied to our lives, through water baptism. What can wash away my sins nothing but the blood of Jesus. And how does his blood wash away our sins Water Baptism.

tylerbones1313 · Oct 23, 2014

Dear PACEMAKER:

There is an important difference between a condition of salvation
and a requirement for salvation.
The Bible is clear that belief is both a condition and a requirement,
but the same cannot be said for “water baptism”.

The Bible does not say that if a man is not baptized

then he will not be saved.

One can add any number of conditions to faith
(which is required for salvation),
and the person can still be saved.
For example if a person believes,
is “water baptized”, goes to church, and gives to the poor
he will be saved.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Before you say the latter half of this scripture mentions nothing of water baptism let me tell you that if you don't believe than why would you get water baptized. The conjunction "AND" always joins two thoughts together so it takes both.

Dogknox · Oct 23, 2014

PACEMAKER You cannot be saved by the cross until you have been added to the RESURRECTED Body of Jesus!

FACT: Jesus rose.... How could the cross save you if you are NOT a believer??? It can't!
Believers believe the words of Jesus!

FACT: Believers are Christians! Christian "Christ follower"!

Christians believe the words of Jesus. Always have!
Justin Martyr is a CHRISTIAN!!
He said: Christ was TEACHING WATER Baptism in John 3:3
He said: He was saved by the waters of Baptism!!
He said: Christians TEACH WATER BAPTISM SAVES!
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

This man is an earlier CHRISTIAN, he said "HE WAS SAVED BY BAPTISM>> IN WATER<<"
Hermas
"‘I have heard, sir,’ said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’" (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).

Hermas was a friend of the Apostle John!!!

Origen is a CHRISTIAN!!!
He said
"It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism" (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

PACEMAKER Christians have always believed the scriptures!!!
You MUST reject CHRISTIANS and their scriptural teaching about the importance of baptism!!

Augustine Is a CHRISTIAN!!
He said...
"There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized" (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

PACEMAKER Clearly you reject Christian TEACHING!!
PACEMAKER The idea of baptism does NOT save, was unheard of until men rose up against Jesus and his church seventeen Hundred years AFTER Jesus!

PACEMAKER Christians have always TAUGHT against you and your lies!!!

Saved by "Faith ALONE" is NOT in the scriptures!
Fact is... You CANNOT be saved by faith ALONE!

Your kind cannot put on the "Breast Plate of RIGHTEOUSNESS"!
Simply because, It is made with LOVE NOT faith ALONE!!!
1 Thessalonians 5:8
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

Fact is, you CANNOT be SAVED!!! You are "HOPELESS!"
You cannot put on the Helmet of Salvation, it is made with HOPE!!
You have FAITH ALONE you are without all HOPE and LOVE!

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

Do you see it?? You have to do right to be RIGHTEOUS!!!
A person with faith ALONE cannot do anything!!

PACEMAKER · Oct 24, 2014

tylerbones1313 said:

Tylerbones1313
My answer is probably a little more Detail than you expected
I hope and Pray that you will take the Time to Ask God
to give you an Honest Answer to what His Word says..

Question: "Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

Answer: As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches through careful consideration of the language and context of the verse. We also filter it through what we know the Bible teaches elsewhere on the subject.

In the case of baptism and salvation,
the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace
through faith in Jesus Christ,
not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion
that baptism, or any other act,
is necessary for salvation
is a faulty interpretation.

Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20.
There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark
or whether they were added later by a scribe.
As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine
on anything from Mark 16:9-20,
such as snake handling,
unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture.

Assuming that verse 16 is original to Mark,
does it teach that baptism is required for salvation?
The short answer is, no, it does not.
In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation,
one must go beyond what the verse actually says.

What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation,
which is consistent with the countless verses

where only belief is mentioned
(e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved;
but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).

This verse is composed of two basic statements.
1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved.
2—He who does not believe will be condemned.

While this verse tells us something about believers
who have been baptized (they are saved),
it does not say anything about believers
who have not been baptized.

In order for this verse to teach that baptism
is necessary for salvation,
a third statement would be necessary,
“He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned”
or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.”
But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Those who TRY to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy.

This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations
(or opposites) of that statement are also true."

For example, the statement
“a dog with brown spots is an animal” is true;
however, the negative,
“if a dog does not have brown spots,
it is not an animal” is false.

In the same way,
“he who believes and is baptized will be saved” is true;

however, the statement
“he who believes
but is not baptized will not be saved”
is an unwarranted assumption.

Yet this is exactly the Assumption
made by those who support baptismal regeneration.

Consider this example:
"Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved,
but those that do not believe are condemned."
This statement is strictly true;
Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved.
However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas
are saved is an illogical and false assumption.
The statement does not say a believer
must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven.

Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized.

The verse states a fact about baptized believers
(they will be saved),
but it says exactly nothing about believers
who have not been baptized.

There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas,
yet they are still saved;
and there may be believers who have not been baptized,
yet they, too, are still saved.

The one specific condition required for salvation
is stated in the second part of Mark 16:16:
“Whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

In essence, Jesus has given both the positive condition of belief
(whoever believes will be saved)

and the negative condition of unbelief
(whoever does not believe will be condemned).
Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty
that belief is the requirement for salvation.

More importantly, we see this condition restated positively and negatively throughout Scripture (John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).

Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism)
in Mark 16:16.
But a related condition should not be confused
with a requirement.
For example, having a fever is related to being ill,
but a fever is not required for illness to be present.

Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as
“whoever is not baptized will be condemned.”

Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?
No, it does not.
It clearly establishes that belief is required for salvation,
but it does not prove or disprove
the idea of baptism being a requirement.
How can we know, then, if one must be baptized
in order to be saved?

We must look to the full counsel of God’s Word.
Here is a summary of the evidence:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone.
Abraham was saved by faith,
and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2—Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized.
The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized.
Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith
and a public declaration
that we believe in Jesus Christ.

The Scriptures tell us that we have eternal life
the moment we believe (John 5:24),
and belief always comes before being baptized.

Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle
or saying a prayer saves us.
We are saved when we believe.

4—The Bible never says that if one is not baptized
then he is not saved.

5—If baptism were required for salvation,
then no one could be saved without another party being present.

Someone must be there to baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved.

The consequences of this doctrine,
when carried to a logical conclusion, are devastating.
For example, a soldier who believes on the battlefield
but is killed before he can be baptized would go to hell.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith
a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation
(John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31).

When one believes, he has eternal life,
does not come under judgment,
and has passed from death into life (John 5:24)
—all before he or she is baptized.

If you believe in baptismal regeneration,
you would do well to prayerfully
consider whom or what you are really putting your trust in.

Is your faith in a physical act (being baptized)
or in the finished work of Christ on the cross?

Whom or what are you trusting for salvation?

Is it the shadow (baptism)

or the substance (Jesus Christ)?

Our faith must rest in Christ alone.

“We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).

Tylerbones1313
Just how much Power is in that water that comes from your local water supply
Travels to your church baptistry
Heated for Convenience
Is It Holy Water ??
Where do the Sins go After the water is Drained ??

DO you have to Believe with ALL your HEART
That Jesus Christ Died on the Cross
For ALL your Sins BEFORE
You are "water baptized"

If so; just What Sins does this "water baptism" wash away ???????????

PACEMAKER · Oct 24, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dogknox

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question

in all of Christian theology.

This question is the cause of the Reformation,
the split between the Protestant churches and Catholic Church.
This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity
and most of the “Christian” cults.

Is salvation by faith alone,

or by faith plus works?
Am I saved just by believing in Jesus,
or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works

is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages.
Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24.

Some see a difference between
Paul (salvation is by faith alone)

and James (salvation is by faith plus works).

Paul dogmatically says that justification
is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9),

while James appears to be saying that justification
is by faith plus works.

This apparent problem is answered by examining
what exactly James is talking about.

James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith
without producing any good works (James 2:17-18).
James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ
will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26).
James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works,
but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith
will have good works in his/her life.

If a person claims to be a believer,
but has no good works in his/her life,
then he/she likely does not have genuine
faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings.
The good fruit believers should have in their lives
is listed in Galatians 5:22-23.
Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith,
not works (Ephesians 2:8-9),
Paul informs us that we were created
to do good works (Ephesians 2:10).

Paul expects just as much of a changed life
as James does:

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;

the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching

regarding salvation.

They approach the same subject from different perspectives.

Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone

while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine
faith in Christ produces good works.

We should be careful not to neglect baptism’s importance.

Baptism is the sign or the symbol

for what takes place when one is born again.
Baptism’s importance should not be
downplayed or minimized.

However, baptism does not save us.

What saves us is the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit,
when we are born again
and regenerated by the Holy Spirit
(Titus 3:5).
5 he saved us,
not because of works done (like "water baptism")

by us in righteousness,
but according to his own mercy,

by the washing of regeneration
and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

This is what the Scriptures says

NOT the Opinion of men
that you Quoted in your post

Baptism symbol only ?

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