This thread appears to have split into two issues, both with false dichotomies...
1. Can an unsaved person manifest the fruit of the Spirit?
a) absolutely not
b) certainly yes
2. Once a person starts down the road of bearing "bad" fruit (however defined) can that person 'change roads' and start to bear good fruit?
a) absolutely not
b) certainly yes
I'll address these separately...
For #1: People who are unsaved can certainly behave in a way that is similar to the fruit of the Spirit, but such behaviour does not come from the Holy Spirit. It is not consistent with who they are at the core (unsaved sinners, in rebellion toward God). Ultimately, these behaviours do them no good if they have rejected Christ. In this sense, the 'fruit' is judged along with the profession. Anyone can behave well for a while... even a long while (consider Gandhi), and remain unsaved.
Conclusion: fruit, by itself, is NOT a determiner of true faith; fruit which is apparently good must be judged alongside one's profession of faith. Someone who professes faith in Christ, but does not manifest good fruit, is failing in some regard and needs correction, instruction, and encouragement. Don't consider the fruit of someone who does not profess Christ as Saviour; it's irrelevant. In other words, just as we don't expect non-Christians to think or behave like Christians with regard to sin, we shouldn't judge non-Christians as anything but, even if they appear godly on the outside. We can encourage good behaviour, but we shouldn't mistake it for the fruit of the Spirit. Even the devil can appear as an angel of light.
For #2: The saving work of Jesus Christ is the only thing which causes any of us to "change roads". The ongoing sanctification wrought by the Holy Spirit takes time, so the "fruit" borne by a new believer will likely be different (less) than that borne by a mature believer. One young in Christ will likely still need correction and instruction (many 'older' in Christ do too!).
Conclusion: As Christians, we should "improve" in how we manifest the fruit of the Spirit. More abiding = more fruit of the Spirit. Less abiding = less good fruit (not "bad fruit" though there may still be bad fruit because the person's sanctification is incomplete).
I suggest that we step back from the strong judgmental attitude with regard to fruit; it is an indicator of faith, not incontrovertible and exclusive proof of faith. The Holy Spirit does not produce bad fruit, period, but we (in our carnality) do. Where we fail in manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, we can be certain that such actions, words and thoughts show where we need to abide more deeply in Christ. This doesn't indicate that we aren't saved.
1. Can an unsaved person manifest the fruit of the Spirit?
a) absolutely not
b) certainly yes
2. Once a person starts down the road of bearing "bad" fruit (however defined) can that person 'change roads' and start to bear good fruit?
a) absolutely not
b) certainly yes
I'll address these separately...
For #1: People who are unsaved can certainly behave in a way that is similar to the fruit of the Spirit, but such behaviour does not come from the Holy Spirit. It is not consistent with who they are at the core (unsaved sinners, in rebellion toward God). Ultimately, these behaviours do them no good if they have rejected Christ. In this sense, the 'fruit' is judged along with the profession. Anyone can behave well for a while... even a long while (consider Gandhi), and remain unsaved.
Conclusion: fruit, by itself, is NOT a determiner of true faith; fruit which is apparently good must be judged alongside one's profession of faith. Someone who professes faith in Christ, but does not manifest good fruit, is failing in some regard and needs correction, instruction, and encouragement. Don't consider the fruit of someone who does not profess Christ as Saviour; it's irrelevant. In other words, just as we don't expect non-Christians to think or behave like Christians with regard to sin, we shouldn't judge non-Christians as anything but, even if they appear godly on the outside. We can encourage good behaviour, but we shouldn't mistake it for the fruit of the Spirit. Even the devil can appear as an angel of light.
For #2: The saving work of Jesus Christ is the only thing which causes any of us to "change roads". The ongoing sanctification wrought by the Holy Spirit takes time, so the "fruit" borne by a new believer will likely be different (less) than that borne by a mature believer. One young in Christ will likely still need correction and instruction (many 'older' in Christ do too!).
Conclusion: As Christians, we should "improve" in how we manifest the fruit of the Spirit. More abiding = more fruit of the Spirit. Less abiding = less good fruit (not "bad fruit" though there may still be bad fruit because the person's sanctification is incomplete).
I suggest that we step back from the strong judgmental attitude with regard to fruit; it is an indicator of faith, not incontrovertible and exclusive proof of faith. The Holy Spirit does not produce bad fruit, period, but we (in our carnality) do. Where we fail in manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, we can be certain that such actions, words and thoughts show where we need to abide more deeply in Christ. This doesn't indicate that we aren't saved.
