A Contradiction?

[crossnote]

Yes, some people equate getting saved with going to heaven. I don't.

Actually, I was trying to separate our good works which follow our deliverance...

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10)

 

[Cee]

What effort does it take?
What does it look like to conform ourselves to His image?
If I was going to give a new believer a checklist of this effortous work what would it be?

C.

His yoke is easy..... but still a yoke, with work to do. Conforming to that yoke(conforming to the spiritual image of Christ) takes quite an effort.
His burden is light..... not nothing. There's still a burden, light as it is.

 

[notmyown]

Yes, and that nicely depicts our walk with Him, not our rescue by Him.

gotta think about this. not that i disagree... just tryna learn to think first.

 

[resurrection33]

Actually, I was trying to separate our good works which follow our deliverance...

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10)

Yes, I suppose we could steer this thread in a whole other direction. Is there a policy regarding a person hijacking his own thread?

 

[miknik5]

♪♪ . . to enter His rest -
close to His chest;
and after His own heart .. ♫

Sounds like what St. John of the Cross discovered when he "went out on that dark night"...

 

[miknik5]

What effort does it take?
What does it look like to conform ourselves to His image?
If I was going to give a new believer a checklist of this effortous work what would it be?

C.

Let not your heart be troubled...Ye believe in GOD, believe also in HIM
In this world you will have trouble, but take heart for I have overcome for you.

And then I would point him to 1John 5 to remind him of what it means to "overcome"...
And as well, John 15 to remind him that apart from HIM we can't do anything...that our work is to do just that...REMAIN IN HIM...

 

[miknik5]

You oppose Him when you work against Him by trying to do His work, instead of simply resting in Him. The reason Jesus' yoke is easy is because He carries the load. Posthuman's post nailed it. It was the same in biblical times...a farmer would use the practice of yoking a mature ox with a young ox side-by-side. It was the strength of the older ox that literally pulled the entire load. The young ox simply kept pace with the older.

This is a picture of our entire Christian life. We are the young ox, and Jesus is the older ox, we may think that we are sharing the load, but it is really Jesus who is actually doing all the work. So many see the Christian life as learning to "carry the load on our own", considering that to be Christian maturity. When the reality is that the Christian life is learning more and more that it is Christ who carries the load, and are need is to simply walk by faith with Him.

Okay...yes....in all seasons...

 

[miknik5]

You oppose Him when you work against Him by trying to do His work, instead of simply resting in Him. The reason Jesus' yoke is easy is because He carries the load. Posthuman's post nailed it. It was the same in biblical times...a farmer would use the practice of yoking a mature ox with a young ox side-by-side. It was the strength of the older ox that literally pulled the entire load. The young ox simply kept pace with the older.

This is a picture of our entire Christian life. We are the young ox, and Jesus is the older ox, we may think that we are sharing the load, but it is really Jesus who is actually doing all the work. So many see the Christian life as learning to "carry the load on our own", considering that to be Christian maturity. When the reality is that the Christian life is learning more and more that it is Christ who carries the load, and are need is to simply walk by faith with Him.

By the way, I will allow MY MASTER to tell me if I oppose HIM...not the other oxen...
They should concern themselves with following HIM and have their eyes on HIM as well...

 

[FreeNChrist]

By the way, I will allow MY MASTER to tell me if I oppose HIM...not the other oxen...
They should concern themselves with following HIM and have their eyes on HIM as well...

He IS the "other" oxen.

 

[adhidw]

Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.



Isa26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.



Rev19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.




Humbleness lead us to admit the verses above.

 

[Stephen63]

What effort does it take?
What does it look like to conform ourselves to His image?
If I was going to give a new believer a checklist of this effortous work what would it be?

C.

Why don't you get yoked up to an ox, & work in the field with him for 'bout a week & get a taste of it?

 

[Cee]

So if we do not go to jail like Paul did our righteousness has not exceeded the Pharisees?

Have you gone to jail like Paul has? Do you believe you are saved? If so, why?

What have you do so far to merit your own salvation that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees? I think this is important to know especially if new believers want to make sure they are saved or staying saved, depending on your theology.

C.

He was speaking spiritually. "Rest for your SOUL" not rest for your body. Paul was in jail, yet was singing to God. He had joy, his spirit was light, but what he was going through took great effort. Jail back then was not like jail today with tvs and a hot meal, you were beaten, chained, had rats, etc. Paul did not just believe, he had to put that belief into action (effort).

So many people people try to prove "only belief and zero effort" but that is simply not true. Jesus said our righteousness MUST exceed that of the Pharisees, or we will not enter heaven. Did the Pharisees believe? Yes! Must you do MORE than believe? Yes!

 

[Cee]

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Matt 16:24

Yes He did, He also said those who lose their life will find it, my question is at what point do we accept we have actually found our life? Paul believed that he died on the cross and was reborn in Christ. That his life was hid in Him. So if our life is hid in Him that points to us resting in Him. After all He is the Vine and we are the Branches and apart from Him, we can do nothing. So at what point do we believe that we apart of Him and our fruit comes from resting in Him? Or do you think we can perfect ourselves through human effort even though we were started by His?

C.

 

[crossnote]

Yes, I suppose we could steer this thread in a whole other direction. Is there a policy regarding a person hijacking his own thread?

It is easy to imagine the following two Bible readings contradict each other. If you don’t trust the Lord, you might, therefore, dismiss them. However, there is no contradiction. I will try to explain:


[28] “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30 RSV



[13] "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” Matt 7:13-14RSV


The yoke of the Lord indeed is light. However, there is a minimal effort required on our part, and those willing to put forth a minimal effort, apparently, are few.

Hijacking? I think you already did in your OP. That Mt 7 passage has to do with initial salvation and the MT 11 has to do with discipleship.

 

[Cee]

This is a beautiful illustration.

I would just like to add. That if the younger oxen thinks he has arrived and no longer needs the older oxen, he will find out how little he is actually carrying himself. And when God wants to increase the load he will need to cry out to the older oxen to help him again. The goal is not to do it ourselves to prove our salvation. But to love people by being loved. And our testimony bringing people to the Father. Not bringing people into self-performance and religion, which is exactly what an oxen who bears his own load looks like. Exactly what the OT gave us a picture of. Here's the law now get to work.

Today the idea of some people's theology is: here's even more and harder commands (because it's from the heart now), remember how I said you can't commit adultery? Well now if you even look at her you're committing lust. Chop off your hands if they cause you to sin. And you're going to do it yourself AFTER I clean your slate one time. But you better have learned your lesson. Or else you're going back into the fire.

C.

You oppose Him when you work against Him by trying to do His work, instead of simply resting in Him. The reason Jesus' yoke is easy is because He carries the load. Posthuman's post nailed it. It was the same in biblical times...a farmer would use the practice of yoking a mature ox with a young ox side-by-side. It was the strength of the older ox that literally pulled the entire load. The young ox simply kept pace with the older.

This is a picture of our entire Christian life. We are the young ox, and Jesus is the older ox, we may think that we are sharing the load, but it is really Jesus who is actually doing all the work. So many see the Christian life as learning to "carry the load on our own", considering that to be Christian maturity. When the reality is that the Christian life is learning more and more that it is Christ who carries the load, and are need is to simply walk by faith with Him.

 

[Cee]

Interesting so you don't have any suggestions.

So how do you know you're saved? Is it simply because you believe you have to keep working to keep your salvation that keeps you saved? Is that what you're teaching? Is that what I need to tell new believers now?

Any other suggestions that I can teach them?

I can say something like okay so I know I told you that you would be saved, but just remember you're not really saved, because you have to keep working in the fields with Jesus.

Them: But that sounds like religion? Didn't you just tell me that I need Jesus not religion?

Me: Yes I did, but what I really meant to say is that you need Jesus to perform works.

Them: And then I know I'm saved?

Me: Well yes as long as you remember you need works.

Them: What kind of works?

Me: I don't know, just love people, be humble, don't be prideful, be holy as He is holy, make sure you go to church, don't love money, keep your eyes on Jesus, just focus on those few for now until we add to your load later. That should keep you saved for awhile.

Did I miss anything?

C.

Why don't you get yoked up to an ox, & work in the field with him for 'bout a week & get a taste of it?

 

[miknik5]

He IS the "other" oxen.

And there are still many oxen/sheep in the field who concern themselves with the Masters other oxen and shouldn't. When one keeps looking behind instead of looking forward it kind of ruins the Masters field. Keep your eyes on the Master/Shepherd if you say you know your Master/shepherd and do the work which He has given you



and stop looking at the other oxen/sheep

 

[Stephen63]

Interesting so you don't have any suggestions.

So how do you know you're saved? Is it simply because you believe you have to keep working to keep your salvation that keeps you saved? Is that what you're teaching? Is that what I need to tell new believers now?

Any other suggestions that I can teach them?

I can say something like okay so I know I told you that you would be saved, but just remember you're not really saved, because you have to keep working in the fields with Jesus.

Them: But that sounds like religion? Didn't you just tell me that I need Jesus not religion?

Me: Yes I did, but what I really meant to say is that you need Jesus to perform works.

Them: And then I know I'm saved?

Me: Well yes as long as you remember you need works.

Them: What kind of works?

Me: I don't know, just love people, be humble, don't be prideful, be holy as He is holy, make sure you go to church, don't love money, keep your eyes on Jesus, just focus on those few for now until we add to your load later. That should keep you saved for awhile.

Did I miss anything?

C.

What's interesting is I gave you a single suggestion..... & you totally missed it. Did you think I was just being sarcastic?

As for the rest of your post, why write a fictitious story that has no meaning?

Ecclesiastes 5:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For in many dreams and in many words there is emptiness. Rather, fear God.

 

[miknik5]

Be like Mary and not like Martha though both were loved.
Or if that doesn't make sense just do what you were called to do

I mean. What is it to you if HE will let us tarry until HE comes? You (and all who claim to belong to HIM) follow HIM


and if we decide our Master is late in coming. DO NOT take that as some sort of opportunity to beat HIS SERVANTS


that was NOT the work HE meant

 

[FreeNChrist]

And there are still many oxen/sheep in the field who concern themselves with the Masters other oxen and shouldn't. When one keeps looking behind instead of looking forward it kind of ruins the Masters field. Keep your eyes on the Master/Shepherd if you say you know your Master/shepherd and do the work which He has given yo

and stop looking at the other oxen/sheep

LOL. You're not trackin'. It's a metaphor. A metaphor for the Christian life.