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You have no understanding of the scripture you quoted...
The young man asked Jesus...
Matthew 19 :KJV
16 ¶And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The young man was a works salvation mindset believer.. He was asking Jesus to tell Him what He must do to justify his place with God in eternity.. the passage continues..
Matthew 19:KJV
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
So this is the critical part Jesus revealed that the young man had to be PERFECT in all his doings to justify his own place with God in eternity.. the passage continues::
Matthew 19:KJV
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
So the young man walks away devastated because he just cannot live up to the perfection standard required.. All Jesus had to do was come to the thing that the young man could not do to be Perfect.. The Passage continues::
Matthew 19:KJV
23 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Now why did the disciples say Who then can be saved? Why because they realized that they could not reach the state of perfection Jesus revealed to the young man they also still had the same works salvation mindset that the young man had only now they had discovered how completely unable they where in achieving salvation by their attempts at works.. The passage continues with the real revelation Jesus was reavealing with his work on earth:::
Matthew 19:KJV
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Get it??? Do you understand this passage of scripture now?
The young man asked Jesus...
Matthew 19 :KJV
16 ¶And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The young man was a works salvation mindset believer.. He was asking Jesus to tell Him what He must do to justify his place with God in eternity.. the passage continues..
Matthew 19:KJV
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
So this is the critical part Jesus revealed that the young man had to be PERFECT in all his doings to justify his own place with God in eternity.. the passage continues::
Matthew 19:KJV
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
So the young man walks away devastated because he just cannot live up to the perfection standard required.. All Jesus had to do was come to the thing that the young man could not do to be Perfect.. The Passage continues::
Matthew 19:KJV
23 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Now why did the disciples say Who then can be saved? Why because they realized that they could not reach the state of perfection Jesus revealed to the young man they also still had the same works salvation mindset that the young man had only now they had discovered how completely unable they where in achieving salvation by their attempts at works.. The passage continues with the real revelation Jesus was reavealing with his work on earth:::
Matthew 19:KJV
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Get it??? Do you understand this passage of scripture now?
No Spirit filled people in the Old Testament ?
1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV)
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Genesis 41:38 (KJV)
And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is,
a man in whom the Spirit of God is?
Psalms 51:11 (KJV)
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV)
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Genesis 41:38 (KJV)
And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is,
a man in whom the Spirit of God is?
Psalms 51:11 (KJV)
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
You mean like this;
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Nope, I would say you definitely don't.
Luke 18:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Nope, I would say you definitely don't.
Luke 18:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
If you understand what Jesus is saying, you need to follow Him, to find perfection.
Now through the cross, love working in our hearts, the impossible is made possible.
But I suspect you actually think following Jesus is still impossible.
That is why you and I do not agree.
If you cannot see my point of view, you will stay in your condescending dismissive
attitude towards scripture. We both demonstrate the same passage can have more
than one interpretation.
Now through the cross, love working in our hearts, the impossible is made possible.
But I suspect you actually think following Jesus is still impossible.
That is why you and I do not agree.
If you cannot see my point of view, you will stay in your condescending dismissive
attitude towards scripture. We both demonstrate the same passage can have more
than one interpretation.
Jesus said, "a new commandment I give you, to love one another."
But it seems you do not believe this was meant for you to follow, but just another
demonstration of failure, so you need to rely more on Christ.
I would say this is like someone giving you a cheque and saying cash this in at the
bank and you can spend the money on what you want. You say the cheque is given
just to show you cannot afford to buy the things you need, but you will get them
anyway, not you are actually meant to cash the cheque, it is a real promise of ability.
So as I said if you exagurate one use of "perfect" in Matthew, you need to also use
the other use of perfect as far as following Christ is concerned.
But it seems you do not believe this was meant for you to follow, but just another
demonstration of failure, so you need to rely more on Christ.
I would say this is like someone giving you a cheque and saying cash this in at the
bank and you can spend the money on what you want. You say the cheque is given
just to show you cannot afford to buy the things you need, but you will get them
anyway, not you are actually meant to cash the cheque, it is a real promise of ability.
So as I said if you exagurate one use of "perfect" in Matthew, you need to also use
the other use of perfect as far as following Christ is concerned.
Works salvation mindset
If you want to polarise everyone into two camps, and then interpret everything they
say with this focus, there is nothing left to say, because you already are saying the
person is saying something they may not be saying at all.
Love works by both parties partaking in the relationship. It is why relationships are
not predictable but you have to dance together. It is unfortunate so many seem to
not know this dynamic of love...
If you want to polarise everyone into two camps, and then interpret everything they
say with this focus, there is nothing left to say, because you already are saying the
person is saying something they may not be saying at all.
Love works by both parties partaking in the relationship. It is why relationships are
not predictable but you have to dance together. It is unfortunate so many seem to
not know this dynamic of love...
Aha! So it wasn't a test, it was a set up! They were entrapped by God.
It is possible for God to test people while also knowing what choice they will make. It's still a test to the people.
This is a nasty post. You could give your thoughts without stating that the poster knows nothing about God and that he needs to actually read the bible before speaking (which he HAS done and is looking for discussion.)
It is ridiculous to expect someone study the scriptures and be perfect in knowledge before they ask any more questions. You would demand a perfection of knowledge even YOU don't possess?
It was an arrogant post to your brother. Do you know anything about God? Study the scripture before you ask any more questions? This is nasty behavior. It's snide and arrogant.
It is possible for God to test people while also knowing what choice they will make. It's still a test to the people.
This is a nasty post. You could give your thoughts without stating that the poster knows nothing about God and that he needs to actually read the bible before speaking (which he HAS done and is looking for discussion.)
It is ridiculous to expect someone study the scriptures and be perfect in knowledge before they ask any more questions. You would demand a perfection of knowledge even YOU don't possess?
It was an arrogant post to your brother. Do you know anything about God? Study the scripture before you ask any more questions? This is nasty behavior. It's snide and arrogant.
Knowledge of good and evil is self awareness. You cannot know something is evil unless
you have the ability to choose it. Choice involves abstraction, the ability to look at a situation
and see alternatives.
Does any human not have this ability to choose, to abstract, to decide?
Adam and Eves response as soon as they were aware was that they were naked. This is
self awareness, the ability to see you could be otherwise, and miss communicates intention.
From this time onwards nakedness has been regarded as sin. I would suggest it shows vulnerability,
but also shame and dishonour. It is why Christ was crucified naked, and even in the recreations of
the cross, Christ is not naked. This contrasts with the roman/greek idealisation of the human form
which is totally naked.
So linking knowledge of good and evil to the law, is simply to limiting to its reality.
God did know man would choose death over trusting God and His timing, but that is the nature of
trust and patience, it is so hard to learn to trust and simply to wait.
What is more challenging is man who knows he will die, with 100% certainty, will he choose life when
offered, which is a similar question, but the tables are turned. The answer for most is no, because of
pride.
you have the ability to choose it. Choice involves abstraction, the ability to look at a situation
and see alternatives.
Does any human not have this ability to choose, to abstract, to decide?
Adam and Eves response as soon as they were aware was that they were naked. This is
self awareness, the ability to see you could be otherwise, and miss communicates intention.
From this time onwards nakedness has been regarded as sin. I would suggest it shows vulnerability,
but also shame and dishonour. It is why Christ was crucified naked, and even in the recreations of
the cross, Christ is not naked. This contrasts with the roman/greek idealisation of the human form
which is totally naked.
So linking knowledge of good and evil to the law, is simply to limiting to its reality.
God did know man would choose death over trusting God and His timing, but that is the nature of
trust and patience, it is so hard to learn to trust and simply to wait.
What is more challenging is man who knows he will die, with 100% certainty, will he choose life when
offered, which is a similar question, but the tables are turned. The answer for most is no, because of
pride.
It really depends on whether you want to be under law or under grace.
If you think you can do it by your own ability then you are under law.
If you rely on Christ and not your own sufficiency then you are under grace.
The law doesn't have any leniency. Read Matthew 5 again and see if perfect doesn't really mean perfect. Maybe it just means try your best. What are you willing to stake on it?
If you think you can do it by your own ability then you are under law.
If you rely on Christ and not your own sufficiency then you are under grace.
The law doesn't have any leniency. Read Matthew 5 again and see if perfect doesn't really mean perfect. Maybe it just means try your best. What are you willing to stake on it?
For what nation
[is there so] great, who [hath] God [so] nigh unto them,
as YHVH our God [is] in all [things that] we call upon him [for]?
And what nation [is there so] great,
that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law,
which I set before you this day?
Deuteronomy 4:7-8 (KJV, MBM)
[is there so] great, who [hath] God [so] nigh unto them,
as YHVH our God [is] in all [things that] we call upon him [for]?
And what nation [is there so] great,
that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law,
which I set before you this day?
Deuteronomy 4:7-8 (KJV, MBM)
Romans 9:31-33
[FONT="]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.[/FONT]
This is a polarised point of view. Laws are guidelines to measure success and failure.
In themselves laws do nothing, it is how you look at them that determines your response.
The hyper-grace theological group claim laws are just about failure.
So we only have speed limits to show people drive cars too fast. No. We have speed
limits so the police can fine and prosecute law breakers. As a result of being prosecuted
whether they like or not, people tend to stick to the limits.
So in reality laws are there to curb behaviour, to teach appropriateness across a whole
community. Now if this is how we use law, why is God any different.
We use laws because they work, they bring order, they help identify those who are
so disfunctional they need to be isolated and contained.
Now in hyper-grace they also lie. We are called to obey the law of the Spirit, to
walk in righteousness, to obey the law that is written on our hearts. So rather
than being free from the law, we are free from the law of Israel, but under the law
of righteousness.
But this truth would undermine their argument, so they do not mention they
actually believe this as well. But maybe in reality they do not, it is all a mirage
to deceive people into rebellion against God, so that keeping people from the
Kingdom is complete, while apparently preaching the gospel, while corrupting the
people with health and wealth self indulgence.
In themselves laws do nothing, it is how you look at them that determines your response.
The hyper-grace theological group claim laws are just about failure.
So we only have speed limits to show people drive cars too fast. No. We have speed
limits so the police can fine and prosecute law breakers. As a result of being prosecuted
whether they like or not, people tend to stick to the limits.
So in reality laws are there to curb behaviour, to teach appropriateness across a whole
community. Now if this is how we use law, why is God any different.
We use laws because they work, they bring order, they help identify those who are
so disfunctional they need to be isolated and contained.
Now in hyper-grace they also lie. We are called to obey the law of the Spirit, to
walk in righteousness, to obey the law that is written on our hearts. So rather
than being free from the law, we are free from the law of Israel, but under the law
of righteousness.
But this truth would undermine their argument, so they do not mention they
actually believe this as well. But maybe in reality they do not, it is all a mirage
to deceive people into rebellion against God, so that keeping people from the
Kingdom is complete, while apparently preaching the gospel, while corrupting the
people with health and wealth self indulgence.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their" works )
This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their" works )
This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I don't think Paul is that well known as our adversary but I suppose he could be to law-keepers that try to get Christians to desert their Lord for the Law. Gal 1:6.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their" works )
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their" works )
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.