A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

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Jun 5, 2014
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But back to the issue at hand, who said this:

"We hold woman to be justly entitled to all we claim for man."

I'll give you a few clues:

It wasn't Paul.

The same person who said it also said: "Right is of no sex - truth is of no color - God is the Father of us all, and we are all brethren, including women."
The same person said: "Religious ministers committed a BLASPHEMY when they taught it as sanctioned by the Bible."

The "it" he was speaking of was using those verses by Paul to try to prevent women from having the right to vote.

This black American also called it a BLASPHEMY for religious ministers to use the Bible to support preventing blacks from having the right to vote.

Who is he?

This same sort of BLASPHEMOUS rhetoric is still used today, right here on this thread, by those who would deny women the pulpit.
 
Jun 5, 2014
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The title of this tread is about overseer/pastor/leader and not preacher. Do you know the differences or even distinguish between both?

In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST stop your 'empty babbling' of a twisted Gospel.
The pastor of a church preaches, right?

Is Joel Osteen a pastor or a preacher?
 
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elf3

Guest
As it is written as according to the LORD that;

"Get behind me satan! You think like everyone else, but what is written in the Scriptures must happen."
The title of this tread is about overseer/pastor/leader and not preacher. Do you know the differences or even distinguish between both?

In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST stop your 'empty babbling' of a twisted Gospel.
This is actually an amusing comment. You do realize that the gospel of Christ has nothing to do with men or women as leaders? The Gospel of Christ is Christ alone. It is all about Jesus coming to be the propitiation for our sins. Jesus fully God and fully man. Not only dying on the cross for our sins but returning from the grave conquering death once and for all. That those who place their faith in Him may have eternal life. This is the Gospel of Christ.

If you actually add anything to this then you do not know what the true Gospel of Christ is.
 
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elf3

Guest
If you and your ignorant carnal/flesh friends continue like this, know that the judgement of Matthew chapter 7 and verse 21 to 23 shall fall upon you all. For the ones written there were 'very confident' mannered in the presence of the LORD, but are the ones HE 'rejected'.

The very same 'very confident' ones also could be witnessed in the Gospel that speaks about 'Final judgement day', where CHRIST will separate the sheep and goats.

i am sorry, for now as a taught witness to and about the New Covenant, you no 'sheep' of CHRIST to me but sadly an ignorant 'goat'.

Repent!
Hey Utah! I think you, along with me and others, just got insulted. I think we were called "ignorant carnal/flesh". Not exactly the best insult but I guess it's a start :)
 
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keepitsimple

Guest
The same person said: "Religious ministers committed a BLASPHEMY when they taught it as sanctioned by the Bible."

The "it" he was speaking of was using those verses by Paul to try to prevent women from having the right to vote.

This black American also called it a BLASPHEMY for religious ministers to use the Bible to support preventing blacks from having the right to vote.

Who is he?

This same sort of BLASPHEMOUS rhetoric is still used today, right here on this thread, by those who would deny women the pulpit.
Ummmm ...... Bill Cosby ?? :cool:

*sorry ... I couldn't resist ... lol
 
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phil112

Guest
Actually it had gone well beyond the "women should not preach" argument, now apparently we have to all wear head coverings...or we are heretics. Well that's me done for then because nothing goes on my head - not even for weddings LOL
What exactly is it about Paul's teachings that allow you folks to pick and choose? I just have never understood that. I am still waiting for someone to clue me in to where the line is about what we have to accept or what we are allowed to ignore about Paul. I don't get it. I am being as serious as can be. Paul said Christ taught him everything he knew.

So how do you tell what is okay to scan thru, and what part do you have to accept? Or is it that if Paul said it we have the option taking or leaving it?

How do you reconcile the eleventh chapter of first Corinthians with what you just said?
 
Jun 5, 2014
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This is actually an amusing comment. You do realize that the gospel of Christ has nothing to do with men or women as leaders? The Gospel of Christ is Christ alone. It is all about Jesus coming to be the propitiation for our sins. Jesus fully God and fully man. Not only dying on the cross for our sins but returning from the grave conquering death once and for all. That those who place their faith in Him may have eternal life. This is the Gospel of Christ.

If you actually add anything to this then you do not know what the true Gospel of Christ is.
Exactly.

If Jesus excluded women, I missed it. Somebody please enlighten me if He did.

In fact, isn't it Paul where most of this comes from?

Which leads me to believe that Paul was speaking of specific situations in specific churches, and not making a new "law" comparable to the 10 Commandments.
 
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elf3

Guest
The title of this tread is about overseer/pastor/leader and not preacher. Do you know the differences or even distinguish between both?

In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST stop your 'empty babbling' of a twisted Gospel.
Oh and today in the way words are used overseer/pastor/leader and preacher are pretty much a way of saying the same thing. Oh and as the word that the RCC uses "father". They are all seen in the same sense anymore meaning the leader of the church.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Hey Utah! I think you, along with me and others, just got insulted. I think we were called "ignorant carnal/flesh". Not exactly the best insult but I guess it's a start :)

FredJames is never in doubt.Agree with him or go to hell.Literally and figuratively.Save your breath would be my advice.But I'm only a woman and I wouldn't want to be counseling you or teaching you.Heaven forbid!
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Exactly.

If Jesus excluded women, I missed it. Somebody please enlighten me if He did.

In fact, isn't it Paul where most of this comes from?

Which leads me to believe that Paul was speaking of specific situations in specific churches, and not making a new "law" comparable to the 10 Commandments.

Now there's a novel idea!! Paul was speaking to a specific people at a specific time.Imagine that!! Maybe they wont burn us at the stake just yet.Thanks,I think you just saved our bacon.
 
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elf3

Guest
Exactly.

If Jesus excluded women, I missed it. Somebody please enlighten me if He did.

In fact, isn't it Paul where most of this comes from?

Which leads me to believe that Paul was speaking of specific situations in specific churches, and not making a new "law" comparable to the 10 Commandments.
Yep different time, situation and circumstance.

Paul did not have the authority to create a new law or new commandment. Only God can do either. And every commandment we are to follow was spoken directly from God or Jesus to a person or people. God's commands are never given by way of the Holy Spirit writing the Scriptures.

God spoke directly to Moses the commandments. Jesus spoke directly to the people on the most important and the "new" command of loving your neighbor.
 
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elf3

Guest
FredJames is never in doubt.Agree with him or go to hell.Literally and figuratively.Save your breath would be my advice.But I'm only a woman and I wouldn't want to be counseling you or teaching you.Heaven forbid!
Hmm maybe I'll listen to a woman and take her advice. But I might get burned. Oh What to do what to do!!! Lol
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Please don't tell me that I have just registered at yet another "Christian" site where people that posters don't even know a thing about are labeled "liars, and who knows what else.
 
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ELECT

Guest
Exactly.

If Jesus excluded women, I missed it. Somebody please enlighten me if He did.

In fact, isn't it Paul where most of this comes from?

Which leads me to believe that Paul was speaking of specific situations in specific churches, and not making a new "law" comparable to the 10 Commandments.
Why do you think that Jesus choose 12 male and not a female ?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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To be moved to speak by God's Holy Spirit is to prophesy.......

2 Peter 1:21

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You have heard (or read) some of these faithful "daughters" that have been moved by the Holy Spirit to speak (or write)
(
2 Peter 1:19) here at cc....... (those that have "visions and "dreams" of the future or present time that don't align with scripture or come to pass are to be dismissed as false.).......

Peter is quoting the prophet Joel who prophesied of the promised free gift of the Holy Spirit that came upon the male apostles and male and female disciples of Jesus Christ after His Blessed Resurrection while being moved by the Holy Spirit to speak.......


Joel 2:28,29
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Peter goes on to explain the promise and free gift of the Holy Spirit for faith in Christ that they all received at Pentecost here in verse 33.......

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
You have heard (or read) some of these faithful "daughters" that have been moved by the Holy Spirit to speak (or write) (2 Peter 1:19) here at cc....... (those that have "visions and "dreams" of the future or present time that don't align with scripture or (EDIT>>>>>>> DON'T come to pass) are to be dismissed as false.).......
Just in case it wasn't clear :)
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Interesting that Jesus NEVER tells the women to sit down shut up and be quiet. But most of the Jewish leaders (all men) denied Him and conspired to kill Him.

Looks like men haven't changed one single bit.
Annnnnd no one here said thats what theyd do :/
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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For sure. I believe satan used eve first because he knew the woman could sway the man. What if it was the other way around? Adam eats first and eve slaps him "stupid man". Just a little thought.

Ok ready "go" now attack me on this hypothetical idea. :)
Actually, didnt satan try Adam first, and Adam said no? Im gonna check this real fast, but if someone knows the right story, totally put it right for me :p
 
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elf3

Guest
What exactly is it about Paul's teachings that allow you folks to pick and choose? I just have never understood that. I am still waiting for someone to clue me in to where the line is about what we have to accept or what we are allowed to ignore about Paul. I don't get it. I am being as serious as can be. Paul said Christ taught him everything he knew.

So how do you tell what is okay to scan thru, and what part do you have to accept? Or is it that if Paul said it we have the option taking or leaving it?

How do you reconcile the eleventh chapter of first Corinthians with what you just said?
When studying Scripture, OT or NT, we cannot just read and say oh I got it. First we must pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Second we need to look at specific things about what we are reading. It's the old, who what when where why questions we need to ask. We also need to understand what type of writing it is; prophetic, poetry, history ect. Another good thing to take into account is who speaks and who is that person speaking too. If God or Jesus speaks best good to listen. Also look and see if God repeats Himself on the subject. (This is only my opinion on this particular thing). If God says it once, God said it so understand it. If God says it twice pay attention well. If God says it more than twice then you better really take this serious. As for your head covering question about 1 Cor 11, who what when where why.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Junia was a female apostle and some of the early church fathers did not like this, so that added the "s" to the name to make it the male noun for the name Junias to cover it up. This is well known by biblical scholars that this cover up was done,
I've read about the name being changed to masculine in later manuscripts. But that doesn't prove that Junia was an apostle. The text could have been read to mean that she was. Maybe some people didn't like the idea of a female apostle. But that doesn't mean the text is conclusive that she was. It's not in English, and the expert in Greek that I asked said it was ambiguous in Greek, too. You can assert that Junia was an apostle, but you can't know any better than I can.


which is why some other books at the Nicene council were deemed not appropriate for the cannon that we now know as the bible. Because they clearly listed female apostles, leaders, and preachers in them, so does early church history documents.
So are you saying that you don't agree that the Bible we have is the right canon then?

Do you have good primary sources that show that the reason for not including these books was because of the female preachers, etc.? I'm not talking about some revisionist historical interpretation, but some primary evidence? Could a book having been written int he mid second century by a gnostic be a reason for not including a book instead of the reason you gave?


It is amazing with all the studying done now days this debate still takes place, but people twist even the standard straight forward scriptures so what can we expect out of this.
You seem to be implying that the canon isn't right, so what do you mean by straight forward standard?

Do you have any proof that the passage in question is not ambiguous as to whether these people were apostles who were of note among the apostles or nonapostles who were of note among the apostles?
 
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elf3

Guest
Why do you think that Jesus choose 12 male and not a female ?
Because that's who He chose according to God's Will. Does not mean women should not be leaders in a church.

Yeah yeah I know refer to 1 Tim for church leadership. Is 1 Tim a commandment from God for church leadership?