A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
1 Corinthians 14:34 .) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 .) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:8 .) I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 .) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 .) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 .) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 .) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1 Corinthians 11:16 .) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Galatians 3:23 .) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I wont argue one bit with those verses. Those verses are how I know that women can't teach and usurp authority over men and that they should be modest.

You shouldn't get into the "in Christ" part because you don't understand it. In Christ does not mean saved duh... I'm saved and I'm still a man???? Saved women are still female. It doesn't mean what you think it means. I'll tell you a good way for you to learn what it means. Take the phrase "in Christ" and put it in you bible search program and look at how it's used throughout scripture.... That will only work in a KJV, the newer translations destroy the language structure of the bible.

Excerpt from Article:

Female disciples[edit]

The Gospels acknowledge that women were among Jesus' earliest followers. Jewish women disciples, including Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna, had accompanied Jesus during his ministry and supported him out of their private means.[SUP][Lk. 8:1–3][/SUP] Although the details of these gospel stories may be questioned, in general they reflect the prominent historical roles women played in Jesus' ministry as disciples. There were women disciples at the foot of the cross. Women were reported to be the first witnesses to the resurrection, chief among them again Mary Magdalene. She was not only "witness," but also called a "messenger" of the risen Christ.[SUP][2][/SUP]
From the beginning of the Early Christian church, women were important members of the movement. As time went on, groups of Christians organized within the homes of believers. Those who could offer their home for meetings were considered important within the movement and assumed leadership roles.[SUP][3][/SUP] Such a woman was Lydia of Philippi, a wealthy dealer in purple cloth. After hearing Paul preach, she and her household were baptized.(Acts 16: 11-15)
The earliest Christian movement, most notably Paul’s movement, was very attractive for wealthy women and widows. They often opened their houses for worship by particular religious movements.[SUP][4][/SUP] According to Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, in the 1st century a woman's place was in the home and the otherwise private areas of life. Turning the private domestic setting into the public religious setting opened up opportunities for religious leadership. Pauline Christianity did not honour its rich patron; instead, it worked within a "motif of reciprocity"[SUP][4][/SUP] by offering leadership roles, dignity and status in return for patronage. Through building up their own house church, women could experience relative authority, social status and political power and renewed dignity within Paul's movement. This concept is reflected in Paul's relationship with Phoebe, Chloe and Rufus's mother.

Found here:


Paul the Apostle and women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't base my beliefs on Wikipedia. You can pick any heresy you want and find a Wiki article to back you up.

Acts 18:24 .) And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 .) This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 .) And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

John 4:28 .) The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 .) Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
30 .) Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
31 .) In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
32 .) But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
33 .) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
34 .) Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
35 .) Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 .) And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 .) And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
38 .) I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.
39 .) And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
40 .) So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
41 .) And many more believed because of his own word;
42 .) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world
.
43 .) Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
I agree with all the scripture you posted, even that parts that you highlighted. They believed because of the sayings of the women. You think that made them a teacher? Don't you know the bible is the inerrant word of God? Scripture will never contradict itself. If one verse says women can't teach then you wont find a verse that says she can. If you think you have found a contradiction in the bible then you need to check yourself... you are wrong, not the bible.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
1 Corinthians 14:34 .) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 .) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:8 .) I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 .) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 .) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 .) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 .) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1 Corinthians 11:16 .) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Galatians 3:23 .) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Excerpt from Article:

Female disciples[edit]

The Gospels acknowledge that women were among Jesus' earliest followers. Jewish women disciples, including Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna, had accompanied Jesus during his ministry and supported him out of their private means.[SUP][Lk. 8:1–3][/SUP] Although the details of these gospel stories may be questioned, in general they reflect the prominent historical roles women played in Jesus' ministry as disciples. There were women disciples at the foot of the cross. Women were reported to be the first witnesses to the resurrection, chief among them again Mary Magdalene. She was not only "witness," but also called a "messenger" of the risen Christ.[SUP][2][/SUP]
From the beginning of the Early Christian church, women were important members of the movement. As time went on, groups of Christians organized within the homes of believers. Those who could offer their home for meetings were considered important within the movement and assumed leadership roles.[SUP][3][/SUP] Such a woman was Lydia of Philippi, a wealthy dealer in purple cloth. After hearing Paul preach, she and her household were baptized.(Acts 16: 11-15)
The earliest Christian movement, most notably Paul’s movement, was very attractive for wealthy women and widows. They often opened their houses for worship by particular religious movements.[SUP][4][/SUP] According to Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, in the 1st century a woman's place was in the home and the otherwise private areas of life. Turning the private domestic setting into the public religious setting opened up opportunities for religious leadership. Pauline Christianity did not honour its rich patron; instead, it worked within a "motif of reciprocity"[SUP][4][/SUP] by offering leadership roles, dignity and status in return for patronage. Through building up their own house church, women could experience relative authority, social status and political power and renewed dignity within Paul's movement. This concept is reflected in Paul's relationship with Phoebe, Chloe and Rufus's mother.

Found here:


Paul the Apostle and women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Acts 18:24 .) And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 .) This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 .) And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

John 4:28 .) The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 .) Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
30 .) Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
31 .) In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
32 .) But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
33 .) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
34 .) Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
35 .) Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 .) And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 .) And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
38 .) I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.
39 .) And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
40 .) So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
41 .) And many more believed because of his own word;
42 .) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world
.
43 .) Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
What you posted here is definitely what I have found. Women can also have experience and share them to help the faith of other followers. But that isnt really the same thing as teaching, thats like having an experience and sharing it, isnt it?

I mean, isnt a prophecy having an experience from God and telling others?


Oh, and I havent seen anything that says a women cant talk ever. Were actually told in the new testament that all can prophesy.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
Alot of people are using the verse "there is slave nor free, jew nor greek, male nor female", but they kinda seem to use it to say we no longer need to worry about roles, which was never taught. Im saying that we are all told to submit. God tells those in slavery that they should in fact submit to their masters, He never said rise and rebel against them. It is Gods will that we submit, and not put ourselves up highly.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Alot of people are using the verse "there is slave nor free, jew nor greek, male nor female", but they kinda seem to use it to say we no longer need to worry about roles, which was never taught. Im saying that we are all told to submit. God tells those in slavery that they should in fact submit to their masters, He never said rise and rebel against them. It is Gods will that we submit, and not put ourselves up highly.
That's one of the best points brought up on this thread so far... bravo!
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
Sexism? God made one lump of clay for a specific job and another for another job. How is that sexism? Can the clay so to the potter "why has thou made me thus"?
Wow, that's interesting you share the Scripture regarding clay because I was thinking the same thing, but on behalf of women being preachers. I appreciate what you share, KJV, and I also appreciate your love for the Lord.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
Men make rules about what women cannot do because they are afraid they might do it better.
Shhhh, that's supposed to be a secret.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Alot of people are using the verse "there is slave nor free, jew nor greek, male nor female", but they kinda seem to use it to say we no longer need to worry about roles, which was never taught. Im saying that we are all told to submit. God tells those in slavery that they should in fact submit to their masters, He never said rise and rebel against them. It is Gods will that we submit, and not put ourselves up highly.

In Christ there is now slave nor free, Jew nor Greek,male nor female which is to say we are all level at the foot of the cross.No one can lord over another,one is not better than the other,one is not closer to God than another.We are all level,equal.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
[video=youtube;WO23WBji_Z0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji_Z0[/video]
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
In Christ there is now slave nor free, Jew nor Greek,male nor female which is to say we are all level at the foot of the cross.No one can lord over another,one is not better than the other,one is not closer to God than another.We are all level,equal.
But we were never told that slaves were now to be freed by there masters, and actually the NT makes many references of submission for many people. I still take that in the way that we are all offered His grace, and no one is held in favoritism. But that God does still have order, and charges some to lead others. I dont believe those who teach are closer to God, in fact Christ kinda seemed to point that out with the pharisees. But He still seems to have wanted men to teach.

If you think I have some male ego trip problem and I feel the need to lord over you you dont have any idea who I am :p I am merely arguing the point that we should place Gods will over ours, and there was no word that women are allowed to be teachers, but we are taught that they should not.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
I'm not saying I agree with the idea of menstruation symbolizing being washed in the blood in the comment you referred to, but I'd like to comment on what you said.

Again, we can't expect that God will conform to our societies ideas of morality.

If there is some aspect of truth that God has revealed that our society considers to be sexist, then let us be sexist in that area. That's good sexism. If there is something that is sexist that is against what God commands, then lets not be sexism.

Jesus is Lord, and we follow Him. If He overturned some traditions about how men are to relate to women, that's great. We can accept and appreciate that. But if something He taught or sent His apostles to teach is deemed sexist, then Jesus is Lord, so let's be sexist in that area.

We shouldn't let societies labels keep us from believing and following Jesus in every area of our lives.
Thank you, friend. I like what you share and appreciate your loving spirit. I simply struggle with seeing how Jesus is the greatest liberator of women in all creation yet women are not supposed to have authority in the church? It goes against the very liberating aspects of Jesus that He shows and teaches.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
Thank you, friend. I like what you share and appreciate your loving spirit. I simply struggle with seeing how Jesus is the greatest liberator of women in all creation yet women are not supposed to have authority in the church? It goes against the very liberating aspects of Jesus that He shows and teaches.
I gotta ask, what makes you call Him the liberator of women?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
In Christ there is now slave nor free, Jew nor Greek,male nor female which is to say we are all level at the foot of the cross.No one can lord over another,one is not better than the other,one is not closer to God than another.We are all level,equal.
There never has been one better than the other or one closer to God, we have always been on the same level. I'm in Christ, you're in Christ. I'm still a male and your still a female.... In Christ is not talking about your physical body, it's talking about your soul. Your soul is in Christ where there is no male, no female, no Jew, no Greek etc.. But you're physical body is still a female and mine is male. As long as we have these physical bodies, we are to abide by the teachings of Paul.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
Alot of people are using the verse "there is slave nor free, jew nor greek, male nor female", but they kinda seem to use it to say we no longer need to worry about roles, which was never taught. Im saying that we are all told to submit. God tells those in slavery that they should in fact submit to their masters, He never said rise and rebel against them. It is Gods will that we submit, and not put ourselves up highly.
This exemplifies why I dared to consider looking into this matter on a deeper level. The argument could be made from the above biblical text that the abolitionists were wrong. And of course, they were not.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
In Christ there is now slave nor free, Jew nor Greek,male nor female which is to say we are all level at the foot of the cross.No one can lord over another,one is not better than the other,one is not closer to God than another.We are all level,equal.
God has His favourites

Numbers 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.
3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lordwill make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
The NT also tells us that women should work at home and take care of the children, and that they should submit to their husbands. Christ told us He did not come to change the laws. And everything in the NT does seem to go by it. So I dont believe that that verse was written for roles, but for the grace that is given to us all freely. Christ never once asked a woman to lead, teach or be in charge of the household, and I still cant see how that could be Gods will.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
this has been debated for a very long time, and many quote scripture in the NT to discount this possibility and that is understandable, however there does remain 2 questions that must be answered: 1. are the text in the NT to be applied to this time and culture? (do we simply ignore the scriptures in the OT that very clearly show women as Judges and prophets?) and 2.is this woman pastor, (whomever she may be) be blessed in her ministry? does the fruit of the Spirit show forth in her deportment and handling of the responsibilities of that office? if so how can one discount or belittle her position? are we not then speaking against and in opposition to the one who called her to it? just my thoughts...
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
This exemplifies why I dared to consider looking into this matter on a deeper level. The argument could be made from the above biblical text that the abolitionists were wrong. And of course, they were not.
God tells everyone to endure your suffering, and that those who suffer in His name are blessed by Him. Christ tells us that when someone strikes you, give them the other cheek. Im not going to call abolitionists evil, but God does ask that you endure suffering, and that He rewards those who do.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
this has been debated for a very long time, and many quote scripture in the NT to discount this possibility and that is understandable, however there does remain 2 questions that must be answered: 1. are the text in the NT to be applied to this time and culture? (do we simply ignore the scriptures in the OT that very clearly show women as Judges and prophets?) and 2.is this woman pastor, (whomever she may be) be blessed in her ministry? does the fruit of the Spirit show forth in her deportment and handling of the responsibilities of that office? if so how can one discount or belittle her position? are we not then speaking against and in opposition to the one who called her to it? just my thoughts...
Oh the NT, and even Paul, wrote that women will prophesy. But thats not really the same thing as preaching and teaching the bible.