Again, Faith Without Works

[JaumeJ]

How many can say they are saved, and leave it at that? How many are not so grateful to Yeshua for His sacrificial gift by His Own Blood that they do not wish to express their awesome gratitude?

Now, how many call expressing our gratitude as being works to salvation?

Call me self righteous, or say I am interpreting the Word on my own without first having been taught by the Holy Spirit.

Faith without works is no faith at all, and that is a sad place for anyone to be.

Now, someone please, try to pervert these teachings as to say one is not living under the grace of the Blood of Yeshua if one is expressing his gratitude by works.

Also, how callous a believer is to think the Ten Commandments are works or law; they are a joy to those who are grateful to Yeshua.

Those who believe when we honor our parents, or donot steal, or are faithful to our spouse and so on think this is works have a very shallow understanding of living in love.

 

[john832]

How many can say they are saved, and leave it at that? How many are not so grateful to Yeshua for His sacrificial gift by His Own Blood that they do not wish to express their awesome gratitude?

Now, how many call expressing our gratitude as being works to salvation?

Call me self righteous, or say I am interpreting the Word on my own without first having been taught by the Holy Spirit.

Faith without works is no faith at all, and that is a sad place for anyone to be.

Now, someone please, try to pervert these teachings as to say one is not living under the grace of the Blood of Yeshua if one is expressing his gratitude by works.

Also, how callous a believer is to think the Ten Commandments are works or law; they are a joy to those who are grateful to Yeshua.

Those who believe when we honor our parents, or donot steal, or are faithful to our spouse and so on think this is works have a very shallow understanding of living in love.

If you really notice what people think of the Ten Commandments, they think that nine of them are great. They don't want someone murdering them, they don't want their spouse to be unfaithful, they don't want someone taking their possessions, they really don't want to have other gods, etc.

The problem is really only with the fourth one. It has always been the test Commandment...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

And it is a sign between God and His people...

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Eze 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

After all, keeping the Sabbath makes one different than ALL of those around them. It makes one stand out. It causes job problems. It puts one to the test, every week...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

 

[JaumeJ]

If what you say were true, they would not keep telling those who love to obey them in gratitude that they are under the law, and not under grace.

Again, anyone saved by the sacrifice of our Lord, Yeshua, is so overwhelmed with gratitude that obeying the commandments is a joy. Also, again, tell me which of any of the entire Ten do not express love in obeying them? The all express love. As far at the Sabbath is concerned, there is no question except in the minds of men that it was never changed by Yahweh.
Also again, what kind of love does a believer have that finds obeying the commandments a burden?

If you really notice what people think of the Ten Commandments, they think that nine of them are great. They don't want someone murdering them, they don't want their spouse to be unfaithful, they don't want someone taking their possessions, they really don't want to have other gods, etc.

The problem is really only with the fourth one. It has always been the test Commandment...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

And it is a sign between God and His people...

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Eze 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

After all, keeping the Sabbath makes one different than ALL of those around them. It makes one stand out. It causes job problems. It puts one to the test, every week...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

 

[josh123]

If you really notice what people think of the Ten Commandments, they think that nine of them are great. They don't want someone murdering them, they don't want their spouse to be unfaithful, they don't want someone taking their possessions, they really don't want to have other gods, etc.

The problem is really only with the fourth one. It has always been the test Commandment...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

And it is a sign between God and His people...

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Eze 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

After all, keeping the Sabbath makes one different than ALL of those around them. It makes one stand out. It causes job problems. It puts one to the test, every week...

Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

meant for the jews not us. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10[/h]

 

[Grandpa]

Love is not concerned with looking back to the law that is for transgressors and their condemnation.

Love is concerned with growing and becoming more, Like our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There is only one way to do that, and that is by Abiding in Christ.

The law doesn't do anything for you except show you how you fall short of perfection. It shows you that you can't follow it by your will or strength. It shows you that you need a savior.

Wouldn't it be great if we could open the eyes of the blind so they could see this? Maybe we could gently take their hands off their ears as well...

 

[josh123]

Love is not concerned with looking back to the law that is for transgressors and their condemnation.

Love is concerned with growing and becoming more, Like our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There is only one way to do that, and that is by Abiding in Christ.

The law doesn't do anything for you except show you how you fall short of perfection. It shows you that you can't follow it by your will or strength. It shows you that you need a savior.

Wouldn't it be great if we could open the eyes of the blind so they could see this? Maybe we could gently take their hands off their ears as well...

the thing is.. when the hear law, commandment they automatically think, 10 commandments...

 

[JaumeJ]

Showing gratitude by our actions is not works to save our souls, as I posted, Yeshua has done this, but faith without works is dead. My question seems to be ignored, so I will ask again.

Please look at the Ten Commandments and tell me which we do not obey under the laws of Love. Do you not see each being obeyed is an expression of love? By our new nature in Yeshua we are overjoyed to please Him in any manner possible for each of us. If you believe honoring or parents is a law, I feel pity for you. The same holds true for the rest of the commandments, our Father's desire for our conduct in love. If not, you need to reassess your teaching of others, because each of the Ten Commandments, and they are not laws, being obeyed is an expression of love and gratitude for the free salvation we have received and the grace in which we live. Commandments are not the law, though some of the law is commandments. Learn this and you will not be accusing those who obey the comandments of trying to save themselves, for that is impossible.







It shows you that you can't follow it by your will or strength. It shows you that you need a savior.

Wouldn't it be great if we could open the eyes of the blind so they could see this? Maybe we could gently take their hands off their ears as well...[/QUOTE]

 

[josh123]

Showing gratitude by our actions is not works to save our souls, as I posted, Yeshua has done this, but faith without works is dead. My question seems to be ignored, so I will ask again.

Please look at the Ten Commandments and tell me which we do not obey under the laws of Love. Do you not see each being obeyed is an expression of love? By our new nature in Yeshua we are overjoyed to please Him in any manner possible for each of us. If you believe honoring or parents is a law, I feel pity for you. The same holds true for the rest of the commandments, our Father's desire for our conduct in love. If not, you need to reassess your teaching of others, because each of the Ten Commandments, and they are not laws, being obeyed is an expression of love and gratitude for the free salvation we have received and the grace in which we live. Commandments are not the law, though some of the law is commandments. Learn this and you will not be accusing those who obey the comandments of trying to save themselves, for that is impossible.







It shows you that you can't follow it by your will or strength. It shows you that you need a savior.

Wouldn't it be great if we could open the eyes of the blind so they could see this? Maybe we could gently take their hands off their ears as well...

[/QUOTE]
meant for the jews not us. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10 nds of your completely ignoring what this is saying THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

With the light having now come and revealed that GOD's law is love, trying to keeping the 10 commandments to show gratitude to GOD is like Cain offering the fruits of the ground to try to please GOD.

 

[josh123]

With the light having now come and revealed that GOD's law is love, trying to keeping the 10 commandments to show gratitude to GOD is like Cain offering the fruits of the ground to try to please GOD.

amen. .

 

[josh123]

honestly.. if god doesn't call you your in trouble what i mean by this it is in our nature to disbelieve and by disbelieving we think it is right but when god calls us we forget everything we know and turn to him, so like talking to them is like telling them to believe something that isn't in their nature all we can do is pray for them.. that one day if god allows it they will allow their eyes to be opened

 

[Grandpa]

Showing gratitude by our actions is not works to save our souls, as I posted, Yeshua has done this, but faith without works is dead. My question seems to be ignored, so I will ask again.

Please look at the Ten Commandments and tell me which we do not obey under the laws of Love. Do you not see each being obeyed is an expression of love? By our new nature in Yeshua we are overjoyed to please Him in any manner possible for each of us. If you believe honoring or parents is a law, I feel pity for you. The same holds true for the rest of the commandments, our Father's desire for our conduct in love. If not, you need to reassess your teaching of others, because each of the Ten Commandments, and they are not laws, being obeyed is an expression of love and gratitude for the free salvation we have received and the grace in which we live. Commandments are not the law, though some of the law is commandments. Learn this and you will not be accusing those who obey the comandments of trying to save themselves, for that is impossible.







It shows you that you can't follow it by your will or strength. It shows you that you need a savior.

Wouldn't it be great if we could open the eyes of the blind so they could see this? Maybe we could gently take their hands off their ears as well...

[/QUOTE]

I haven't accused you of trying to save yourself.

I have told you that you have departed from the way of Faith and are now working at the Law.

If I thought you were trying to save yourself there would be hope that you would come to understand that you can't do that.

Who has bewitched you? Having begun in the Spirit are you now perfected by flesh?

 

[john832]

meant for the jews not us. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

Your logic fails here my friend...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

By your logic, the New Covenant is meant for the Jews.

 

[john832]

Originally Posted by josh123

meant for the jews not us. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10 nds of your completely ignoring what this is saying THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW

OK, really nice bright, bold colors and large letters, now tell me what love is.

 

[john832]

the thing is.. when the hear law, commandment they automatically think, 10 commandments...

Just out of curiosity, who is this doing the speaking?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And then He proceeds to give the other nine Commandments.

Who is doing the talking, do you know?

 

[JaumeJ]

I ask you, please detail to me which of the Ten Commandments is a burden to you in view of our new nature given by the Holy Spirit. Do you steal? Do you dishonor your parents. Do you covet everything you see from material goods to people.. etc. Now which of these is a burden for any believer? I am surely not going to carve out an image and worship it. I am not going to use Yahweh's name in vain. Also, I did not do these thing before my life changing experience by the Holy Spirit, so tell me, which of these do you not obey?
Why is it some kind of dreaded burden for you? For me it is a delight to please my Maker.

You must tell me, rather than just say how wrong others are for loving the Lord so much they wish to be obedient, Then explain why the Lord, His brother, and again the Lord in the Book, Revelation, tells us to obey the commandments of the Father. Tell me why these teaching from Yeshua, Himself are wrong, please. I ask you.
.Q

UOTE=HeRoseFromTheDead;1132160]With the light having now come and revealed that GOD's law is love, trying to keeping the 10 commandments to show gratitude to GOD is like Cain offering the fruits of the ground to try to please GOD.[/QUOTE]

 

[josh123]

Just out of curiosity, who is this doing the speaking?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And then He proceeds to give the other nine Commandments.

Who is doing the talking, do you know?

looooooooooooool i'm sorry for the lol but this just made me laugh sorry. in order to anwser your question i will ask you another question who did god deliver out of egypt? was it the gentiles or the jews?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How many can say they are saved, and leave it at that? How many are not so grateful to Yeshua for His sacrificial gift by His Own Blood that they do not wish to express their awesome gratitude?

Now, how many call expressing our gratitude as being works to salvation?

Call me self righteous, or say I am interpreting the Word on my own without first having been taught by the Holy Spirit.

Faith without works is no faith at all, and that is a sad place for anyone to be.

Now, someone please, try to pervert these teachings as to say one is not living under the grace of the Blood of Yeshua if one is expressing his gratitude by works.

Also, how callous a believer is to think the Ten Commandments are works or law; they are a joy to those who are grateful to Yeshua.

Those who believe when we honor our parents, or donot steal, or are faithful to our spouse and so on think this is works have a very shallow understanding of living in love.

Your right. Faith without works IS DEAD. Thus as James so correctly stated. If we SAY we have faith. But have no works. How can we be saved? Our faith is dead. No faiht, no salvation. Even demons believe.

The sad part. is many want to go to the opposite end of the spectrum. And add works to faith TO BE SAVED. they are no more saved than the one who has no works. Because neither have faith in the work of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you really notice what people think of the Ten Commandments, they think that nine of them are great. They don't want someone murdering them, they don't want their spouse to be unfaithful, they don't want someone taking their possessions, they really don't want to have other gods, etc.

No this is not the problem at all

The problem is people who THINK they obey the ten. (but in reality do not) and do not even bother to admit there are so many more than ten, in fact so many, we probably can not even count (if we add up ALL things God claims is sin)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the thing is.. when the hear law, commandment they automatically think, 10 commandments...

worse yet. They think (like the pharisees) they obey them. and probably (like the pharisees, do a good job on the outside (for all to see)), But like the pharisees. they can;t see they can not even do them like God commands.