AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?
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Ok, so the OP Title was just "bait?" You know, to draw people into this thread?
IF you want to discuss the idea stated in the TITLE, please give me your thoughts, and I will be happy to discuss them. IF THIS IS JUST THE LATEST thread to argue the Sabbath.............well.............sigh..........
Oh, BTW, please be SPECIFIC about WHAT COMMANDMENTS you are referring to........thanks......
IF you want to discuss the idea stated in the TITLE, please give me your thoughts, and I will be happy to discuss them. IF THIS IS JUST THE LATEST thread to argue the Sabbath.............well.............sigh..........
Oh, BTW, please be SPECIFIC about WHAT COMMANDMENTS you are referring to........thanks......
.........oh, goodness.............I DO BELIEVE IF Zinwhoeverheis includes OSAS and Water Baptism...........ALL OTHER THREADS on the Bible Studies Forum will be of no avail..........
Oh, wait, don't forget "free will.........."
BUT HE ONLY wants to establish what day the Sabbath is on...........???
I knew this was not going to end well.........well, when END TIMES showed up..........sigh..........
Oh, wait, don't forget "free will.........."
BUT HE ONLY wants to establish what day the Sabbath is on...........???
I knew this was not going to end well.........well, when END TIMES showed up..........sigh..........
My thought is if you try and keep the Jewish Commandments, all 613 of them, you will fail.
I hope at that point, you will become a Christian by God calling you and realizing that Christ fulfilled the law.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
"We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; [SUP]16 [/SUP]yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:15-16
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Gal. 2:21
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? " Gal. 3:1-3
"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— [SUP]14 [/SUP]so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." Gal. 3:10-14
If I were the OP and wanted this question answered, I would start with Galatians. Hopefully, some of these verses might give you a clue! Then read Romans. And STOP reading the info from these cults. The Bible has all the answers and you certainly do not need to go to cults to have the Bible interpreted for you. The Holy Spirit has that job, once you are saved.
I hope at that point, you will become a Christian by God calling you and realizing that Christ fulfilled the law.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
"We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; [SUP]16 [/SUP]yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:15-16
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Gal. 2:21
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? " Gal. 3:1-3
"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— [SUP]14 [/SUP]so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." Gal. 3:10-14
If I were the OP and wanted this question answered, I would start with Galatians. Hopefully, some of these verses might give you a clue! Then read Romans. And STOP reading the info from these cults. The Bible has all the answers and you certainly do not need to go to cults to have the Bible interpreted for you. The Holy Spirit has that job, once you are saved.
.........oh, goodness.............I DO BELIEVE IF Zinwhoeverheis includes OSAS and Water Baptism...........ALL OTHER THREADS on the Bible Studies Forum will be of no avail..........
Oh, wait, don't forget "free will.........."
BUT HE ONLY wants to establish what day the Sabbath is on...........???
I knew this was not going to end well.........well, when END TIMES showed up..........sigh..........
Oh, wait, don't forget "free will.........."
BUT HE ONLY wants to establish what day the Sabbath is on...........???
I knew this was not going to end well.........well, when END TIMES showed up..........sigh..........
do not talk to me like this again,(although i feel you will not listen)
Do you think that when God looks at our hearts the first question is "are you Jew or gentile". When God brought His special people, designed to learn to know Him and show that to all men, out of Egypt to free them as an illustration of Christ freeing you and I from the bondage of sin that he said now this is a Jew and this is a gentile and they are all different?
In scriptures written before Christ came and all had the Holy Spirit, scripture goes into great detail about doing what the spirit suggests, always being sure they knew it was the heart they were to involve in the doing. So lots of men trying to do as God said concentrated on the doing, even adding a lot of ways to do, forgetting the spirit. Some of it was so overboard that the doing became sinful, no obedience.
In scripture after we receive the Holy Spirit, scripture goes into great detail about Christ and the Holy Spirit in us, and not so much about the doing. So people trying to obey say all this law talk is not right, it is only the spirit, until they preach ignoring talk of doing and it becomes sinful in the other way. Some go so far as to preach to ignore all talk of doing at all, wipe that scripture out of your minds.
We need to get rid of the Jew/gentile talk in favor of God talk. We need to stop this law/spirit talk to a God ordained balance.
When people say that God was all wet behind the ears when God spoke of the Sabbath day, it is not right!!!! They say Christ wiped it out, and when Christ is asked he said He didn't wipe it out. Ask Him! Then they say Paul said Christ wiped it out. So ask Paul and look carefully for the spirit of Paul, and you will find that Paul did not want us to ignore Christ.
In scriptures written before Christ came and all had the Holy Spirit, scripture goes into great detail about doing what the spirit suggests, always being sure they knew it was the heart they were to involve in the doing. So lots of men trying to do as God said concentrated on the doing, even adding a lot of ways to do, forgetting the spirit. Some of it was so overboard that the doing became sinful, no obedience.
In scripture after we receive the Holy Spirit, scripture goes into great detail about Christ and the Holy Spirit in us, and not so much about the doing. So people trying to obey say all this law talk is not right, it is only the spirit, until they preach ignoring talk of doing and it becomes sinful in the other way. Some go so far as to preach to ignore all talk of doing at all, wipe that scripture out of your minds.
We need to get rid of the Jew/gentile talk in favor of God talk. We need to stop this law/spirit talk to a God ordained balance.
When people say that God was all wet behind the ears when God spoke of the Sabbath day, it is not right!!!! They say Christ wiped it out, and when Christ is asked he said He didn't wipe it out. Ask Him! Then they say Paul said Christ wiped it out. So ask Paul and look carefully for the spirit of Paul, and you will find that Paul did not want us to ignore Christ.
I don't think that the 613 laws, meant for the time they were given, were put in scripture for us to fail at. They were put in there to explain how the law of love could be used to make a good world in that day, and if we translate it into the spiritual meaning they apply to our world today. Some apply to the physical temple, and we are now the physical temple. With Christ living in our world (that was always so in eternal time) in our time we have a lot of translating to do, knowing what Christ replaced. Often, in the law it was repeated that this law is so important to your life in this world that any breaking it means the breaking of it MUST be gotten rid of. We are warned against reading law literally as only physical, but reading these laws as examples of the spiritual law of love is very telling about the principles of the God who created us.
All this talk of God fulfilling the law, that needs to be learned and accepted, has been turned into talk of Christ getting rid of the law. Christ said He didn't. So an understanding of how He affected law is very necessary to our walk with Him, but the idea that He got rid of it needs to be wiped out of the earth.
Psa 119:29 -34 Keep me from the way of deceit and graciously give me Your instruction. 30 I have chosen the way of truth; I have set Your ordinances before me. 31 I cling to Your decrees; LORD, do not put me to shame. 32 I pursue the way of Your commands, for You broaden my understanding. 33 Teach me, LORD, the meaning of Your statutes, and I will always keep them. 34 Help me understand Your instruction, and I will obey it and follow it with all my heart.
All this talk of God fulfilling the law, that needs to be learned and accepted, has been turned into talk of Christ getting rid of the law. Christ said He didn't. So an understanding of how He affected law is very necessary to our walk with Him, but the idea that He got rid of it needs to be wiped out of the earth.
Psa 119:29 -34 Keep me from the way of deceit and graciously give me Your instruction. 30 I have chosen the way of truth; I have set Your ordinances before me. 31 I cling to Your decrees; LORD, do not put me to shame. 32 I pursue the way of Your commands, for You broaden my understanding. 33 Teach me, LORD, the meaning of Your statutes, and I will always keep them. 34 Help me understand Your instruction, and I will obey it and follow it with all my heart.
i agree with this whole heartedly i feel there is no distinction between Jew and gentile but as of now i have many thought and beliefs that i need to talk with a Jew and someone who has a good nature and is happy to give advice even if my questions may be a bit hard to answer as any good advice can be good advice.
SO MESSIANIC Jews if the are any i would appreciate your input pls and if THERE IS ANY Jews here who are not messianic please feel free to join in. Maybe you can help with this matter on exactly what you do on a sabbath day please
SO MESSIANIC Jews if the are any i would appreciate your input pls and if THERE IS ANY Jews here who are not messianic please feel free to join in. Maybe you can help with this matter on exactly what you do on a sabbath day please
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I am sorry but this way you greet me here when i do not even know you i have never said hello to you before and i do not know you but you are so clearly being rude about this, maybe i could of said rude instead of jerk, but why this total blow out i haven't ment to cause you any pain i don't know why you think i have ?
you say that i am bait for what reason because you think you can nail to cross to along with the ten commandments ? or you dont agree with having the sabbath day ? if you do not agree with the sabbath day then maybe this is what separates believers and unbelievers.
you say that i am bait for what reason because you think you can nail to cross to along with the ten commandments ? or you dont agree with having the sabbath day ? if you do not agree with the sabbath day then maybe this is what separates believers and unbelievers.
Perhaps I can help. I an neither a Jew or an actual messianic, but I study OT under a man who believes an understanding of it is necessary to our better understanding of Christ, which makes me in sympathy with them.
As I dig as deeply into what God wants of us on this day and try to follow that, I try to give up my personal labor in all my own way to live my life and put as much of it as I can into the care of the Lord, depending more completely on Him than I do the other six days of the week. I cook ahead, for instance. This is my spiritual goal, and I use what I do physically to reinforce this spiritual goal, being sure my doing is only to help toward the spiritual.
I have no family left that live close, but if I did it would include a sort of ceremonial Friday night supper celebration of Christ and the Lord. As it is, I light two candles and use a set prayer with each, these prayers express my goals and spirit so well I use them in place of my own words but they are not said as a rite, but as my expression. Here is a copy.
With the first candle: “ On the seventh day God completed His work He had done, and He rested on the seventh day. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.” (Sanctified it as in setting it apart)
With the second candle: “Father, continue Your loving kindness to me and my family and grant us and all Israel a good and long life. Remember us with favor and blessing and consider us with salvation and compassion, bless us with great blessing, complete our families and cause Your Glory to dwell among us. Keep far from us all manner of shame, grief, and care; and grant that peace, light, and joy abide in our home forever. For You, Yeshua, are our light. Amen.” ("all Israel" as in all those in Christ)
At sundown on Saturday night, to announce to myself that Sabbath is over and I am to resume my normal six day a week doing, I have a jar of spices. I open the jar and take a deep breath of what symbolizes, to me that I am to spend the next six days doing with God's help. I use these things as a symbol of the spiritual doing, knowing it is the spirit and not the physical acts that is important.
As I dig as deeply into what God wants of us on this day and try to follow that, I try to give up my personal labor in all my own way to live my life and put as much of it as I can into the care of the Lord, depending more completely on Him than I do the other six days of the week. I cook ahead, for instance. This is my spiritual goal, and I use what I do physically to reinforce this spiritual goal, being sure my doing is only to help toward the spiritual.
I have no family left that live close, but if I did it would include a sort of ceremonial Friday night supper celebration of Christ and the Lord. As it is, I light two candles and use a set prayer with each, these prayers express my goals and spirit so well I use them in place of my own words but they are not said as a rite, but as my expression. Here is a copy.
With the first candle: “ On the seventh day God completed His work He had done, and He rested on the seventh day. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.” (Sanctified it as in setting it apart)
With the second candle: “Father, continue Your loving kindness to me and my family and grant us and all Israel a good and long life. Remember us with favor and blessing and consider us with salvation and compassion, bless us with great blessing, complete our families and cause Your Glory to dwell among us. Keep far from us all manner of shame, grief, and care; and grant that peace, light, and joy abide in our home forever. For You, Yeshua, are our light. Amen.” ("all Israel" as in all those in Christ)
At sundown on Saturday night, to announce to myself that Sabbath is over and I am to resume my normal six day a week doing, I have a jar of spices. I open the jar and take a deep breath of what symbolizes, to me that I am to spend the next six days doing with God's help. I use these things as a symbol of the spiritual doing, knowing it is the spirit and not the physical acts that is important.
Since you need it simple, I will keep it simple. The Bible needs to be read in context of passages and books, pulling out individual verses is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. So one more time, for those who don't read the Bible.
"I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matt 5:17b
"because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:16c
"for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Gal. 2:21b
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? " Gal. 3:3
"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; " Gal. 3:10a
I cannot make it simpler, that to quote the Bible! I also took away the colour, and left the bolding, just in case it was confusing you.
To be a Jew is to follow the law. To be a Christian is to follow Jesus!
I told you to read Galatians, because it is the book written to Judaizers. The ones who would make you keep the law to be saved. I'm sorry you do not appear to know that book, it is in the New Testament, right after 1 and 2nd Corinthians.
Redtent, just as an aside, the only time you post is Psalm 119. Have you even read the New Testament? You are stuck in the Old Covenant, whereas believers in Christ are in the New Covenant, the old one BEING OBSOLETE!
"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 3:13
"I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matt 5:17b
"because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:16c
"for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Gal. 2:21b
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? " Gal. 3:3
"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; " Gal. 3:10a
I cannot make it simpler, that to quote the Bible! I also took away the colour, and left the bolding, just in case it was confusing you.
To be a Jew is to follow the law. To be a Christian is to follow Jesus!
I told you to read Galatians, because it is the book written to Judaizers. The ones who would make you keep the law to be saved. I'm sorry you do not appear to know that book, it is in the New Testament, right after 1 and 2nd Corinthians.
Redtent, just as an aside, the only time you post is Psalm 119. Have you even read the New Testament? You are stuck in the Old Covenant, whereas believers in Christ are in the New Covenant, the old one BEING OBSOLETE!
"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 3:13