An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Limited Atonement

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SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#21
Dec 28, 2016
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#21
notuptome said:
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Even Gods elect, Israel, still had to accept the offer of redemption.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Not all of Israel is Israel. Romans 9.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#22
May 17, 2013
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#22
Grandpa said:
Exactly.

So its not limited atonement they don't like.

Its election.
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Now you are setting total depravity against limited atonement. Nice job.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#23
Dec 28, 2016
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#23
notuptome said:
Again a statement made without thought or comprehension.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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The Greek word used for draw, it means to literally drag off. The same word 'draw' is also used when Peter drew his sword and when he dragged the net to the shore. It is an effectual draw.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#25
Jun 24, 2011
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#25
notuptome said:
A great big red herring.

God has always made atonement a matter of Choice for man.

Cain had the choice to receive the sin (offering) that lieth at the door. A sin offering God provided for him after his original offering was declared unacceptable.

Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Cain tried to atone for himself.

His 'sacrifice' wasn't accepted.

Because it wasn't the one that was chosen.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#26
May 17, 2013
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#26
SovereignGrace said:
The Greek word used for draw, it means to literally drag off. The same word 'draw' is also used when Peter drew his sword and when he dragged the net to the shore. It is an effectual draw.
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So? God does not force any man to accept His offer of grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
ForthAngel

ForthAngel

Senior Member
#27
Aug 31, 2012
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#27
notuptome said:
Yes the difference is belief not election.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Judging from something you said on another thread, I have a question. You believe only certain people are elected right? For instance, the Apostles. But everyone else has been given a choice? You apply John 6 to the Apostles only if I remember correctly.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#28
Dec 28, 2016
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#28
notuptome said:
So? God does not force any man to accept His offer of grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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No. But ppl naturally reject it in their fallen state. None seek God, none understand. Romans 3.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#29
May 17, 2013
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#29
Grandpa said:
Cain tried to atone for himself.

His 'sacrifice' wasn't accepted.

Because it wasn't the one that was chosen.
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Yes, God provided him an acceptable sacrifice and Cain choose to reject it. You want to teach that man cannot accept the offering that God has provided.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#30
Jun 24, 2011
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#30
notuptome said:
Now you are setting total depravity against limited atonement. Nice job.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
I'm not doing it.

I'm just showing that people really do agree with limited atonement.

Its election they don't like.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#31
May 17, 2013
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#31
ForthAngel said:
Judging from something you said on another thread, I have a question. You believe only certain people are elected right? For instance, the Apostles. But everyone else has been given a choice? You apply John 6 to the Apostles only if I remember correctly.
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Never said that you are confusing me with someone else.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#32
Jun 24, 2011
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#32
notuptome said:
Yes, God provided him an acceptable sacrifice and Cain choose to reject it. You want to teach that man cannot accept the offering that God has provided.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I want to show that men cannot unless God Draws them.

Because that is what scripture shows.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#33
Dec 28, 2016
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#33
notuptome said:
Yes, God provided him an acceptable sacrifice and Cain choose to reject it. You want to teach that man cannot accept the offering that God has provided.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Its not they can not accept it, they won't accept it. Jesus told the Pharisees you will not come to Me. The reason why they could not was because their hearts were deadened in sins and transgressions.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#34
May 17, 2013
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#34
Grandpa said:
I'm not doing it.

I'm just showing that people really do agree with limited atonement.

Its election they don't like.
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Limited atonement is false. Election is misunderstood and corrupted by men who fail to know the nature of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
ForthAngel

ForthAngel

Senior Member
#35
Aug 31, 2012
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#35
notuptome said:
Never said that you are confusing me with someone else.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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It was you. I remember the way you sign each post. I can dig it up, but I don't have time right now. It was on Kayla's thread about trying to understand Calvinism I believe. You applied John 6 to the Apostles only.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#36
May 17, 2013
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#36
SovereignGrace said:
Its not they can not accept it, they won't accept it. Jesus told the Pharisees you will not come to Me. The reason why they could not was because their hearts were deadened in sins and transgressions.
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God did not make them that way. God cannot tempt a man to sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#37
May 17, 2013
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#37
ForthAngel said:
It was you. I remember the way you sign each post. I can dig it up, but I don't have time right now. It was on Kayla's thread about trying to understand Calvinism I believe. You applied John 6 to the Apostles only.
Click to expand...
Find it but you must have completely misunderstood the content.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#38
Dec 28, 2016
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#38
notuptome said:
Limited atonement is false. Election is misunderstood and corrupted by men who fail to know the nature of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
The Levitical scapegoat was solely for the children of Israel. The Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, &c were not included.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#39
May 17, 2013
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#39
Grandpa said:
I want to show that men cannot unless God Draws them.

Because that is what scripture shows.
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I just showed you that God draws all men. Not all receive and many turn back but God draws all men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#40
Dec 28, 2016
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#40
notuptome said:
God did not make them that way. God cannot tempt a man to sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Exactly, God never made them that way. I agree. They were fallen in Adam, just as you and I were before He saved us.
 
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