And DOES Them....

beta · May 29, 2017

Obedience is a problem for many Christians...they are taught to completely rely on JESUS' finished work and to DO anything themselves are 'filthy rags. That is 'passive christianity...not alive and active.
When God gives us instructions ''to DO'' we had better DO - for we are created in Christ Jesus unto 'good works'. God would not instruct us to do any other work but what is necessary for our re-creation/re-newing in the spirit of our mind !
Look at Moses...he was told to 'take his shoes off when standing on holy ground. Because he obeyed God used him mightily...as he did others who obeyed !
Obedience is important, we'd better learn it Heb 5v8,9. Phil 2v8. Acts 5v32. We should do it out of LOVE for what HE has done for us and is 'still doing for us' !!! HIS work is not done yet...HE works hitherto as does His Father because we are not perfected YET !!!

Chris1975 · May 29, 2017

beta said:

^^^ just posting the quotes mentioned above

Hebrews 5v8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Philippians 2v5-8 (added a few verses before for emphasis)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [SUP]7 [/SUP]but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Acts 5v32
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

SovereignGrace · May 29, 2017

I think that by ppl using different translations, sometimes the thoughts expressed are misunderstood. Now, the KJV seems to express 1.John 3 as we are to live in sinless perfection. But if you read other translations, the thought John was expressing was, not that we no longer sin, as the KJV quoted, but rather, we can not keep on sinning, as other translated quoted it. The same with Hebrews10:26. None have ever sinned against their will, as it says in the KJV, if we willfully sin after we come to the knowledge of truth, but the thought the Hebrews writer was expressing, again, was continually sinning.

In 1 Timothy 1:15, Apostle Paul referred to himself as the chiefest of sinners. In Romans 7:24, he called himself a wretched man. Paul struggled with sin, just as the rest of us do.

stonesoffire · May 29, 2017

followjesus said:

Noah and Abraham were obedient to the VOICE of the Lord.

Led by the Spirit...which is our obedience now too.

And no we won't be led to do an act of sin. But, acts are not just the whole of our sin...nature.

How about your thoughts? Pure? Or do you have to still capture those that are not?

Holy Spirit is actually the unmerited grace of God. And He said...He will never leave. He may back off for a time. We may not have a sense of His Presence if we commit sin. But, He won't let us stay this way for very long.

If we are not chastised by God...we are what?

Blain · May 29, 2017

Here is the thing with the beliefs of people who claim that we in Christ do not sin. They often times will say we are not to sin and most of the time when challenged by being asked if they sin they either do not answer, give a vague response, or dodge the question all together. However here is what I understand about them, they say in their hearts they do not sin Intentionally
but when they ignorantly sin they ask for forgiveness. The thing is sin is sin, it doesn't matter if you purposely disobeyed God or not you still disobeyed him and still sinned there fore you cannot hide behind ignorance.

Ignorance may be bliss but the damage it does is anything but

Grandpa · May 29, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Good idea. Let's test this. In context.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[FONT=&quot]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Would you look at that? Not by our work. It is the Gift of God.

Do you think Jonahs repentance was a gift of God? I do...

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are His Workmanship. Not our own. Created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[/FONT]

Grandpa · May 29, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Matthew 11:28-30
[FONT=&quot]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Obedience is nothing close to what the judaizers and legalists think it is.[/FONT]

Chris1975 · May 29, 2017

Grandpa said:

Luke 8
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

- Now, is it Jesus saying where is "His" faith?
- Or is Jesus saying where is "your" faith?

You see Jesus gives us the gift of faith - that is true. It's a seed He plants when we first believe.

The Exercise of this faith (the believing, obeying, doing) is on our side of the equation.

Luke 17

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”

[SUP]6 [/SUP]So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.

- disciples wanted Jesus to increase their faith
- Jesus' response: Faith the size of a mustard seed (very small) is enough. Now go and EXERCISE it.

Faith without Works is Dead.

James 2
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So obedience is not "optional".

Paul agrees:

Romans 2

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Faith = Obedience

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2017

believe it is the accurate hearing of Christ Himself and what He has already done by His grace and love that brings true faith which has as it's own fruit - obedience - which is to believe.

Right believing in what Christ has already done releases His empowering grace within us to live godly in this present world.

Some get that disobedience is not obeying because of some translations which says..

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

This word for "disobedience" is really "unbelief" in Greek in Hebrews 4:6.

To not believe in the finished work of Christ for living and salvation is in fact disobedience.

That's why the gospel is often called "the obedience of faith".

Even good moral living law-keeping Jewish priests came to be "obedient to the faith."

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

JGIG · May 29, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.

1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3)The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians hadthe testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption

1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even asthe testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30[/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

Grace777x70, thanks for consistently bringing the Good News here and building up the Body of Christ in who She is in Him!

Grace and peace to you, brother!

-JGIG

JGIG · May 29, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13

As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.

Amen. This is TRUTH.

When we are in Christ, He CHANGES us. We get a new heart, and Christ lives IN US.

We don't mature and behave better because we learn to do the do's and to not do the don'ts found in the Scriptures . . . we mature and behave better as we learn who we are in Christ - Christ in us, the hope of glory! And He produces His Fruit in and through us.

There is rest there, in putting on Christ, resting in Him. Peace, Joy, and a harvest of Righteousness \o/!

- JoyfullyGrowingInGrace

JGIG · May 29, 2017

Skinski7 said:

Yet James, in chapter 3, tells us that we all stumble in many ways . . .

Yet here you are, slandering Grace777x70's posts, misrepresenting what he writes.

But I'm sure no one notices.

What Grace777x70 has been sharing here is not Gnosticism, it is the Good News of the Work of Christ and who believers in Christ are in Him.

Slander is not righteous, Skinski7.

-JGIG

UnderGrace · May 29, 2017

I noticed and I agree JGIG!! Thank you for stepping up against false accusations.

Romans 12:2 tells us essentially that "You are no longer under the principle of human effort but under divine transformation."

This is the Good News!!

JGIG said:

stonesoffire · May 29, 2017

Slander isn't love of the brethren either.

Gabriel2020 · May 30, 2017

The problem with spirit filled people ,who belong to Christ Jesus,is that when they sin, they don't realize that they are walking in the flesh,therefore fulfilling the lust of the flesh. We must walk in the spirit so we won't fulfill the lust of the flesh. when you walk in the spirit, you walk as if you do not have a body to cause you to lust in the flesh. the spirit and the flesh is at war with each other daily. Can this be accomplished? yes, by the renewing of your mind. renew it with heavenly things, or replace the bad with good from above. mark; 13' 34-36. don't get caught sleeping,. meaning doing the wrong things.

Meggido · May 30, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Notice that little a on this Chris?

Below is what the little a says

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

The proper rendering to this verse is the word you

If you add that, the context of the entire verse changes and it says this.

If you love me you will keep my commands that are:
Love God, love others and love yourself.

Those are the only law/commands we are held to today. If we do that we fulfill all the law/commands [Romans 13.8-10 says so]

Meggido · May 30, 2017

Skinski7 said:

All sin has stopped in genuine salvation.

A pure heart does not engage in malice and slander, nor in murder and rape. An individual is not "good" if they are DOING evil. An individual is not "saved" if they are DOING evil. If you are DOING evil it is because you are evil. It is as simple as that.

You are just trying to find some excuse for being able to sin and not surely die. That is Satan's lie.

Salvation is inclusive of a total character renovation, the heart has been purified. It is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be malicious and slanderous. Likewise it is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be raping and murdering.

It is not "sinless perfection" to be faithful and loving to God and your neighbour. That is just your buzz term to avoid a discussion of your Gnosticism. John refuted the Gnostics and he refutes you.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

no sir, you are pushing sinless perfection and every one still sin's even after conversion. You are no longer a sinner after conversion and a sin-forgiven saint, but you will still sin and to say otherwise is wrong and agaisnt the Bible.

Meggido · May 30, 2017

Skinski7 said:

I have answered that question a bunch of times on this forum.

No I don't sin. Why would I? Sinning is abhorrent. By "sin" I mean doing wrong when I know it is wrong, I am not referring to a sin of ignorance like a misjudgment of a matter or accidental carelessness, situational factors would come into play there.

When I speak of "sin" I mean choosing evil when you know it is evil, either a violation of the conscience or a violation of God's moral law. Thus a Christian CANNOT be engaged in things like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting, etc. because all those things are the antithesis of love.

You are the one who believes that a Christian can be actively engaged in things like like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting and not be under condemnation. So foolish.

Your purpose is clearly a desire to see everyone as sinners so you can advocate salvation as a license for ongoing wickedness. It is such foolishness.

It is so foolish to actually give comfort to someone engaged in wickedness, to assert that they can be engaged in wickedness and at the same time be "in Christ." It is dangerous, unloving and nonsense.

There is no sin of ignorance bro. ALL SIN is CHOICE....period

Chris1975 · May 30, 2017

Meggido said:

1 Timothy 1 v13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Paul was referring to his zeal for persecuting the Christian church, thinking he was doing the will of God. It was in ignorance.

Meggido · May 30, 2017

Skinski7 said:

You are just an unbeliever.

The children of God are manifest in that they do not commit sin.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are still committing sin then you are a child of the devil.

1 John 1.10:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

There are no contradictions in the Bible, so how can 1 John 1.10 and 1 John 3.6-10 be reconciled?

And DOES Them....

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