-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hi annointedshepherd. It is my personal belief that people who want to believe in modern apostles and prophets typically want to believe that they themselves are something special and exalt themselves in the eyes of men. I carried this delusion for quite some time that I was going to be used by God in some great "awakening" of the human mind and be given "powers" to do some crazy stuff. I would be one of the first. I realized that my belief was delusional and very much mimicked the modern day prophetic movements.
During this drug induced delusional period, I was plagued with nightmares and other strange occurrences that were far from godly and in no way caused by anything god had planned for me, although I saw it as something it wasn't. My mind was a cesspool of false doctrine and unbiblical beliefs that eventually turned into heresies and blasphemies and utterly destroyed my view of reality.
Again, these beliefs very much mimicked the modern day prophetic movements and I felt "special". It was a lie straight from the pit of hell. I suspect these modern day prophets hold a similar view of feeling "special" in some way, and many even believe they are God-sent, but it is a complete delusion of their own human mind.
During this drug induced delusional period, I was plagued with nightmares and other strange occurrences that were far from godly and in no way caused by anything god had planned for me, although I saw it as something it wasn't. My mind was a cesspool of false doctrine and unbiblical beliefs that eventually turned into heresies and blasphemies and utterly destroyed my view of reality.
Again, these beliefs very much mimicked the modern day prophetic movements and I felt "special". It was a lie straight from the pit of hell. I suspect these modern day prophets hold a similar view of feeling "special" in some way, and many even believe they are God-sent, but it is a complete delusion of their own human mind.
K
You are correct. Verse 13 states that these five minitries last until we all come to the full knowledge, etc. If we have not come to that knowledge, etc., then all five ministries must be here. If we have come to that knowledge, none of the five should be here. It is inconsistent to believe that there are pastors, teachers, and/or evangelists (and most believe in all 3), and to say the other two no longer exist.
Compare this though. The word "church" is not used in the entire chapter. People usually read the word into this verse, though. The "structure" (in Greek "tithomai" or "proper set up") is given in I Cor. 12:28, which is a slightly different list.
Compare this though. The word "church" is not used in the entire chapter. People usually read the word into this verse, though. The "structure" (in Greek "tithomai" or "proper set up") is given in I Cor. 12:28, which is a slightly different list.
D
I do. I once did not believe Apostles could exist. I had assumed they ceased soon after the church became established. However, there is nothing in scripture that suggests this.
I read thru Acts and found something very interesting to me. There are 20 Apostles listed in Acts, so the idea of only 12 at a time is false. Silas is the last Apostle in scripture, tho' he can only be counted as as an apostle by inference and some argue he was not an apostle. The interesting thought I had is that to me, this implies that perhaps God changed how the APostles do their work. That is to suggest they now work behind the scenes and not at center stage.
I read thru Acts and found something very interesting to me. There are 20 Apostles listed in Acts, so the idea of only 12 at a time is false. Silas is the last Apostle in scripture, tho' he can only be counted as as an apostle by inference and some argue he was not an apostle. The interesting thought I had is that to me, this implies that perhaps God changed how the APostles do their work. That is to suggest they now work behind the scenes and not at center stage.
Last edited by a moderator:
K
But Apostles are called to all 5 offices and are able to move in them
missionaries are not
missionaries are not
G
apostles are 'sent,' folk, and, since this is a biblical definition we want, that person is 'sent by God,' and, there work is to go to another country/city to proclaim the good news , on a faith-filled basis, as going to a place like Pakistan where Christians aren't just persecuted but KILLED, takes some calling .
prophets= someone who is just helping someone else undertand their future in Christ.
So ,yes, both exist. We don't have the 'fulfilling' prophets anymore, they died obviously, we don't need them anymore, but, Scripture, does not lie, there are offices and Ephesians 4 states them briefly. All for God's glory used, and, you can know your office or even spiritual gift but it's He who works it through you and He may or may not ever let you know.
The Lord can use you to heal someone without your ever knowing it, I think this is how God works personally, most times, because we are such prideful human beasts that we would get big heads when we see we heal someone . God is just and merciful and He knows our inability and ability to give Him the glory and healing and miracles is a way that He likely prefers to do through us but not with us knowing, except, by FAITH
The gifts , offices , are powerfully to be used by God in us so that we serve Him better, as one body in Christ , remembering, too, that in whatever we do, we are to do it NOT for our own glory but for the glory of God
prophets= someone who is just helping someone else undertand their future in Christ.
So ,yes, both exist. We don't have the 'fulfilling' prophets anymore, they died obviously, we don't need them anymore, but, Scripture, does not lie, there are offices and Ephesians 4 states them briefly. All for God's glory used, and, you can know your office or even spiritual gift but it's He who works it through you and He may or may not ever let you know.
The Lord can use you to heal someone without your ever knowing it, I think this is how God works personally, most times, because we are such prideful human beasts that we would get big heads when we see we heal someone . God is just and merciful and He knows our inability and ability to give Him the glory and healing and miracles is a way that He likely prefers to do through us but not with us knowing, except, by FAITH
The gifts , offices , are powerfully to be used by God in us so that we serve Him better, as one body in Christ , remembering, too, that in whatever we do, we are to do it NOT for our own glory but for the glory of God
A
apostles are 'sent,' folk, and, since this is a biblical definition we want, that person is 'sent by God,' and, there work is to go to another country/city to proclaim the good news , on a faith-filled basis, as going to a place like Pakistan where Christians aren't just persecuted but KILLED, takes some calling .
prophets= someone who is just helping someone else undertand their future in Christ.
So ,yes, both exist. We don't have the 'fulfilling' prophets anymore, they died obviously, we don't need them anymore, but, Scripture, does not lie, there are offices and Ephesians 4 states them briefly. All for God's glory used, and, you can know your office or even spiritual gift but it's He who works it through you and He may or may not ever let you know.
The Lord can use you to heal someone without your ever knowing it, I think this is how God works personally, most times, because we are such prideful human beasts that we would get big heads when we see we heal someone . God is just and merciful and He knows our inability and ability to give Him the glory and healing and miracles is a way that He likely prefers to do through us but not with us knowing, except, by FAITH
The gifts , offices , are powerfully to be used by God in us so that we serve Him better, as one body in Christ , remembering, too, that in whatever we do, we are to do it NOT for our own glory but for the glory of God
prophets= someone who is just helping someone else undertand their future in Christ.
So ,yes, both exist. We don't have the 'fulfilling' prophets anymore, they died obviously, we don't need them anymore, but, Scripture, does not lie, there are offices and Ephesians 4 states them briefly. All for God's glory used, and, you can know your office or even spiritual gift but it's He who works it through you and He may or may not ever let you know.
The Lord can use you to heal someone without your ever knowing it, I think this is how God works personally, most times, because we are such prideful human beasts that we would get big heads when we see we heal someone . God is just and merciful and He knows our inability and ability to give Him the glory and healing and miracles is a way that He likely prefers to do through us but not with us knowing, except, by FAITH
The gifts , offices , are powerfully to be used by God in us so that we serve Him better, as one body in Christ , remembering, too, that in whatever we do, we are to do it NOT for our own glory but for the glory of God
K
If there were only twelve names on the list, how could Paul have trouble with false apostles? Everyone would know off hand who was and who was not. No one else could claim to be an apostle.
Paul is an apostle, and so is Barnabas, who became one in the course of his ministry with Paul. Acts 14:14 and compare Acts. 9:27 to see Barnabas was not oringinally an apostle.
If we go beyond Scripture to the early Christian writings, the Didache has several paragraphs implying ther were dozens or hundreds of apostles. Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson). see 11-12-13
Paul is an apostle, and so is Barnabas, who became one in the course of his ministry with Paul. Acts 14:14 and compare Acts. 9:27 to see Barnabas was not oringinally an apostle.
If we go beyond Scripture to the early Christian writings, the Didache has several paragraphs implying ther were dozens or hundreds of apostles. Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson). see 11-12-13
K
You tell by the fruit. That is the correct procedure. When someone has started works in the Body that last, he is an apostle.
Most will not claim the title even if asked. But, in some denominations, they ordain them, like pastors and bishops. My little town has an "apostles and prophets roundtable" booked at the senior center meeting room this week. And lately, there are schools rising up that supposedly teach people to be this.
Most will not claim the title even if asked. But, in some denominations, they ordain them, like pastors and bishops. My little town has an "apostles and prophets roundtable" booked at the senior center meeting room this week. And lately, there are schools rising up that supposedly teach people to be this.