are children sinners? do they go to heaven if they die early?

[simplifiedtruth]

The book of Enoch chapter 22 has some interesting things to say about what will happen to those who die and where they go. For anyone interested this is what it says:

Enoch Chapter 22

And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock. [SUP]2[/SUP] And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. [SUP]3[/SUP] Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should [SUP]4[/SUP] assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, [SUP]5[/SUP] and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was [SUP]6[/SUP] with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' [SUP]8[/SUP] The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' [SUP]9[/SUP] And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of [SUP]10[/SUP]water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their [SUP]11[/SUP] lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There [SUP]12[/SUP] He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days [SUP]13[/SUP] of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' [SUP]14[/SUP] The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

 

[seed_time_harvest]

That doesn't answer my question and doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. Accusing what? And what are they a law of? It's a pet peeve when people just post a Bible verse in response for an answer to a question. They're just words on a page if you don't have any interpretation that goes with it. If I were to ask how to change a tire you wouldn't respond with "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". So why is this any different?

I can post the scripture but If you want to say Its not relevant to your question then I guess you don't accept the WORD of GOD.

 

[psalm6819]

THE TRUTH IS that God has not been pleased to reveal the facts to us.

Rom 5 says ALL HAVE SINNED. Thus all are sinners in Adam.

Deuteronomy 1.39 refers to a specific sin of which they were not guilty. It cannot be used to question what will be discovered at the judgment.

The psalmist says, 'the wicked go astray from the womb, speaking lies.' David says, 'I was shapen in inquity.'

His words concerning the baby who died were merely saying he would die as well. No afterlife was clearly spoken of in David's day.

If a child goes to heaven if it dies early it is a pity that there are doctors.

The truth is that WE DO NOT KNOW.

I know. I know that God is merciful and Jesus said not to forbid the little chidren for such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[psalm6819]

Would that take into account people in tribes in Afirca that go through this life without ever hearing the words Jesus Christ? You can't proclaim to know if you've never even heard of what there is to know.

Roman says that God reveals Himself to everyoe. They choose what to do with this knowledge. That's good enough for me to trust God on. He knows His own, no matter what language He is adressed in.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I can post the scripture but If you want to say Its not relevant to your question then I guess you don't accept the WORD of GOD.

Here Is my Interpretation of the scripture


Romans 2:14-15
King James Version(KJV)

14.)For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15.)Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
+++
Verse 15
When a person Is sinning without the law,their conscience tells them If they are doing right or wrong,they use their minds where thoughts originate and decide whether they will find a way to accuse you or excuse you.

 

[wattie]

Would that take into account people in tribes in Afirca that go through this life without ever hearing the words Jesus Christ? You can't proclaim to know if you've never even heard of what there is to know.

Sorry thought I'd jump in here.

There is enough in the way nature is made for men to know who God is so that they are 'without excuse' when they die.

God does not need another person telling someone about Jesus for them to understand they are a sinner and need God's forgiveness.

 

[pottersclay]

Sorry thought I'd jump in here.

There is enough in the way nature is made for men to know who God is so that they are 'without excuse' when they die.

God does not need another person telling someone about Jesus for them to understand they are a sinner and need God's forgiveness.

I disagree with this wattle, please expound.

 

[jsr1221]

Sorry thought I'd jump in here.

There is enough in the way nature is made for men to know who God is so that they are 'without excuse' when they die.

God does not need another person telling someone about Jesus for them to understand they are a sinner and need God's forgiveness.

Why does He instruct to make disciples of all nations, then, if nature itself can already do it?

 

[jaybird88]

Sorry thought I'd jump in here.

There is enough in the way nature is made for men to know who God is so that they are 'without excuse' when they die.

God does not need another person telling someone about Jesus for them to understand they are a sinner and need God's forgiveness.

i agree with what you say. i would add Proverbs 6:16-17
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

a person that is born, and dies in a culture with no knowledge of Jesus, its hard to believe they would be punished, sent to hell for not knowing Jesus. by definition they would be innocent of that knowledge and proverbs says our Lord hates the shedding of innocent blood.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] it is a matter of we the trees, whether we bring forth good fruit, for if we do not, then shall we be cut down and cast into the fire, according to the Lord Jesus Christ; and by the way a good tree cannot bring forth corrupt fruit: that means we cannot mix corrupt fruit with good fruit, and suppose that because we have some good fruit in the mix, that that somehow cancels out the corrupt fruit; if we think such, then we are deceiving our own selves. Nay rather at whatsoever age we begin to distinguish good fruit and corrupt fruit, and from thence we put our trust into the hands of the corrupt nature, then are we in the state of perishing, except we repent. And no there is no case in which we shall enter into the kingdom of heaven unless our righteousness shall surpass the righteousness of hypocrisy.

 

[HS]

Yes children are sinners. Romans 3:23
I believe it depends on the age of the child at death 3 or younger may go to heaven. 4 years and above I believe are capable to understand their conscience. They will be judged according to their conscience's Romans 2:14 as they may not know God due to circumstances. If their parents are Christians and they don't accept Jesus as their Savior then they would go to hell. IMO

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello jsr1221,

There is an answer to your question in scripture:

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy." (1 Cor.7:12-14)

 

[jaybird88]

Matthew 19 14-15
14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

i think there is a good reason you never hear young children worry of these things.

 

[alexxcjRO]

What about a gentile psychopath who never heard of Jesus or Yahweh?

Psychopaths disproves that Yahweh this omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good exist together with the core idea of salvation presented by the bible.
Logical deduction:
P1.Yahweh exists.
P2.Yahweh is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
P3.Psychopats feel no remorse, no empathy (they are born this way) therefore can’t feel bad about the evil things they have done, therefore can’t repent for sinning.
P4. Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for all for all sins, even for the sins of the psychopaths.
P3. Because of Jesus sacrifice guilty sinners only need to repent, and ask for forgiveness to be saved.(Yahweh’s plan)
P4. Those who are not saved experience the everlasting destruction of the Lake of Fire.
P5. Because psychopaths can’t repent they can’t ever be saved therefore they will inevitable experience the everlasting destruction of the Lake of Fire.
P6. An omniscient being knows every way in which psychopathy can come into existence.
P7. An omnipotent being who knows every way in which psychopathy can come into existence has the power to prevent that psychopathy from coming into existence.
P7. A being who knows every way in which psychopathy can come into existence, who is able to prevent that psychopathy from coming into existence, and who wants to do so(because remorse is a key factor in the process of salvation), would prevent the existence of psychopathy.
P8. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then
psychopathy does not exists.
P9. Psychopathy exists.(Logical contradiction)
C. Therefore, Yahweh is not an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being.


Before saying psychopathy is not real read this:
'Cold-Hearted' Psychopaths Are Born with Distinct Brains, Existing Treatments May Be Useless
Psychopaths are born not bred, according to a new study - Telegraph
The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath | Science | Smithsonian
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/psychopathy
Psychopathic traits found in preschool children by University of NSW researchers

 

[trofimus]

Do they go to heaven if they die early?

I think there is nothing clear in the Bible about this topic.

Similar to what happens to animals.

We have some possibilities, but nothing said explicitly.

 

[Bookends]

This verse isn't necessarily true, as we have seen plenty of situations of kids growing up in the church only to later on want nothing to do with it.

It's not to be taken as absolute truth, but a generalization. A child raised up right has a better chance of turning out good, then a child raise up wrong.

 

[Bookends]

Why does He instruct to make disciples of all nations, then, if nature itself can already do it?

I think what Wattie means is God doesn't need man to reveal all of God's plans and attributes regarding salvation or Himself (God has given us all the book of nature and a conscience). But that's not to say that God doesn't want man to help or be involved in expressing God's plan and attributes. Paul explains this in Romans 1-3 I believe.

 

[mailmandan]

We have a search function on this site, it's a great tool. If it were to be used, one would find many threads on this topic.

Psalm 51:5

Amen! Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Also in Psalm 58:3, we read - The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth.

 

[Pemican]

I believe children who die before reaching God consciousness are automatically saved. God consciousness is the age at which a particular child can conceive of the idea of God and choose to want to know Him or not. If a child reaches this age and chooses to want to know God, God is obligated to see to it that he hears the gospel message and has the opportunity to believe in Christ.

The rationale is this: Christ paid for all the sins of humanity once for all, past, present and future. Sin is therefore not the issue. The issue in salvation comes down to personal acceptance or rejection of the work of Christ. Since a young child is mentally unable to understand and make a choice, God in His mercy and fairness automatically saves the child. The same rationale applies to the severely mentally retarded. Better to have been born this way than to be a genius and reject Christ.

 

[Utah]

Would that take into account people in tribes in Afirca that go through this life without ever hearing the words Jesus Christ? You can't proclaim to know if you've never even heard of what there is to know.

God is gracious and merciful to such people.