Are Christians going to be around during the start of the tribulation??

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V

violakat

Guest
#21
#21
I'm personally of the opinion that we will not go through the tribulation. I believe there is a verse that mentions the Holy Spirit will be removed during this time. If so, then we as Christians would lose the Holy Spirit. However, this is only if the verse is in there. If not, then it's not.

The thing is, would we really even know if we are in the time of the tribulation, if it had started, and we are not raptured until mid or post tribulation.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#22
#22

I would like to ask all of those who believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture a question. If the church is actually God's hands, feet and voice in the word then why would God remove the church at a time when the world needs it most?

Read Exodus.

Read The Olivet discourse in Matthew & Mark then read it in Luke. Despite the simularities, note the differences. There are differences, I promise.

Be sure to read Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 very closely. Note the simularities.




 
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L

Laodicea

Guest
#23
#23
violakat said:
I'm personally of the opinion that we will not go through the tribulation. I believe there is a verse that mentions the Holy Spirit will be removed during this time. If so, then we as Christians would lose the Holy Spirit. However, this is only if the verse is in there. If not, then it's not.

The thing is, would we really even know if we are in the time of the tribulation, if it had started, and we are not raptured until mid or post tribulation.
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The Holy Spirit will never be removed from God's people even though they go through tribulation.
Matthew 28:20
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
John 16:7
(7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:33
(33) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.



 
N

notIbutChrist

Banned
#24
Oct 2, 2011
416
3
0
#24
jdarling said:
Zone,

The tribulation consists of seven years. It is broken up into two parts each consisting of three and a half years. The first three and a half years are the beginning of the tribulation and the last three and a half years are the great tribulation.
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I know this is a popular teaching, but where do you find this teaching in scripture?
 
N

notIbutChrist

Banned
#25
Oct 2, 2011
416
3
0
#25
LiL_ScrappY said:
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
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We are talkuibng about the great Tribulation not the wrath or judgment
 
N

notIbutChrist

Banned
#27
Oct 2, 2011
416
3
0
#27
violakat said:
I'm personally of the opinion that we will not go through the tribulation. I believe there is a verse that mentions the Holy Spirit will be removed during this time. If so, then we as Christians would lose the Holy Spirit. However, this is only if the verse is in there. If not, then it's not.

The thing is, would we really even know if we are in the time of the tribulation, if it had started, and we are not raptured until mid or post tribulation.
Click to expand...
There is no verse that says the Holy Spirit will be removed, but there is one that says He will not
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#29
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
jdarling said:
Zone,

The tribulation consists of seven years. It is broken up into two parts each consisting of three and a half years. The first three and a half years are the beginning of the tribulation and the last three and a half years are the great tribulation.
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i wondered where you got the 7 years from.
the theory itself...

is it from here?

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#30
#30
Goodness this is so so simple. IN matthew 24, when he's speaking privately to his disciples he says..

when YOU see the abomination of desolation.......when YOU hear of false Messiahs....


If Christians are raptured during that tribulation...how could THEY have seen or heard what he was clearly warning THEM of?

This really isn't as difficult to figure out as some are making it.
 
J

jdarling

Guest
#31
#31
Scotth1960 said:
Dear jdarling, Where in the NT does it say "the tribulation consists of seven years"? Scott
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It is not written in the New Testement as far as I know. It is in the book of Daniel chapter 9 vs 26-27.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#32
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#32
jdarling said:
It is not written in the New Testement as far as I know. It is in the book of Daniel chapter 9 vs 26-27.
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here? that's where the 7 years comes from?

zone said:
i wondered where you got the 7 years from.
the theory itself...

is it from here?

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Click to expand...
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#33
#33
Since Jesus told his disciples privately that they would see and hear the events of the tribulation, it means they'd be raptured out of it, thus they wouldn't see and hear the events of the tribulation.

If the above argument seems contradictory to you, then you see the problem of a pre trib rapture argument.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#34
#34
Or in more simplistic terms the pre trib rapture argument states..

My feet are wet, therefore they're dry.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#35
#35
Jesus clearly told Christians they'd see and hear the events of the great tribulation, therefore they'll be raptured before it, so they won't see or hear the events.

*face to palm*
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#36
#36
Real slick trying to use Jesus and Pauls statements....may as well use Peter too
if you think they knew more than Hal Lindsey and Tim....sheesh people will try anything these days.
 
I

ib4gzus

Guest
#37
#37
Wow
i never knew Admins that were soo rude before.
you guys are suppose to set a good example.
 
J

jdarling

Guest
#38
#38
Thank you everyone for your input. I am not trying to make people angry I just wanted to know that others thought about this topic.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#39
#39
ib4gzus said:
Wow
i never knew Admins that were soo rude before.
you guys are suppose to set a good example.
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Can you please explain how I came across as rude?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#40
#40
ib4gzus said:
Let's get ready for a big..OH DUH moment...


Speaking to the disciples, he says..when YOU SEE the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.....and he says to his disciples...if anyone says to YOU behold there is Christ, don't believe him....

Now if Christians are to be raptured out of the tribulation, why would Jesus say to HIS disciples, when YOU see and when YOU hear?

If Christians are raptured out, they would have nothing to see or hear!

Some may say, well Jesus means if you see this while i heaven..Well how could someone in heaven be deceived about a false Christ? Jesus is warning them not to be deceived, how can they be deceived while in heaven?

He's not speaking to a large crowd of believers and non believers. This is just Jesus and the disciples here. And he saying YOU YOU YOU.
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This phrase originally referred to the desecreation of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes. Antichus invaded Jerusalem in 168 BC. He made the alter into a shr ine to Zeus and even sacrificed a pig on it. ( some think this was when the temple was destroyed in AD 70) But Jesue was looking yet a future abomination of desolation when the Antichrist sets up his image in the temple during the future tribulation. Christ looks beyond the events of AD 70 to a time of even greater global cataclysm that will preceed his Second Coming.

The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation.
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Ahh my oh duh.

Ok when this dawned on me, the truth that was right before my eyes...

I said to my self..

DUH!

I do that a lot when I see things that have been in front of my nose for a LONG time..

I didn't mean it in the rude way that some folks use it.

Just personally, whenever I learn something that should have been so obvious... I think to myself

OH DUH! It's been there all along.
 
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