Are we born again yet?
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A
We are born again in the heart and the spirit have not yet been given new bodies.
This are the verses that come to mind:
Romans 8
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
Ezekiel 11:19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[h=3]1 Peter 1:22-24[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]The Enduring Word[/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, [SUP]23 [/SUP]having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]24 [/SUP]because
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[SUP][c][/SUP] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
***did you notice the tense of the words "having been born again"? its past tense as in those whom Peter was speaking with had been born again already. ****
This are the verses that come to mind:
Romans 8
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
Ezekiel 11:19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[h=3]1 Peter 1:22-24[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]The Enduring Word[/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, [SUP]23 [/SUP]having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]24 [/SUP]because
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[SUP][c][/SUP] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
***did you notice the tense of the words "having been born again"? its past tense as in those whom Peter was speaking with had been born again already. ****
We all were raised with Christ, and thus born again.
Colossians 3:1-3
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
For those with the mind of Christ, this is the first resurrection. If I am dead, then death and hell holds no power over me.
Revelation 20:5-6; 14-15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. Those with the mind of Christ understands that all are lawful to them, and thus reign with Him.
[SUP]14[/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Though we were all born again, most if not all do not yet have the mind of Christ, and thus participate in this second death. It is the casting away of that which is finite and all who hold to it.
Jude 1:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Again, most people are defending money when not only it kills many daily, but in the midst of seeing it collapse in front of their eyes. They must go through this process to again crucify "the old man".
Colossians 3:1-3
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
For those with the mind of Christ, this is the first resurrection. If I am dead, then death and hell holds no power over me.
Revelation 20:5-6; 14-15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. Those with the mind of Christ understands that all are lawful to them, and thus reign with Him.
[SUP]14[/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Though we were all born again, most if not all do not yet have the mind of Christ, and thus participate in this second death. It is the casting away of that which is finite and all who hold to it.
Jude 1:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Again, most people are defending money when not only it kills many daily, but in the midst of seeing it collapse in front of their eyes. They must go through this process to again crucify "the old man".
A
these scriptures illustrates what it means to be born again:
Ephesians 4
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have not so learned Christ, [SUP]21 [/SUP]if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: [SUP]22 [/SUP]that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
sorry I would love to speak about the topic more but I have to make dinner for the family.
Ephesians 4
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have not so learned Christ, [SUP]21 [/SUP]if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: [SUP]22 [/SUP]that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
sorry I would love to speak about the topic more but I have to make dinner for the family.
Born again is a largely misused term in Christendom. God gave "birth" to a nation, for a reason. A peculiar people, to be a vehicle of blessing in the Earth. The nation, also were given a system of worship & obedience. The house or church, was in a state of rebellion... so, a new ministry was called out of that nation by an Apostle (Christ), hence the Israel of God. This new ministry, the little flock, would have their program put on hold. Israel would become "Loammi", they will be reborn.
Today, we are made alive, there is a difference, because we were without God in the world, (Eph 2:12). When the term "neither Jew nor Greek" is espoused it is true, God is not saving a nation in this dispensation, but individuals.
Today, we are made alive, there is a difference, because we were without God in the world, (Eph 2:12). When the term "neither Jew nor Greek" is espoused it is true, God is not saving a nation in this dispensation, but individuals.
Yes, no doubt it's "having been". But I don't believe the statement proves that one is already born again. I believe "having been is more associated with verse 23 rather than 22. But that's just my opinion... I just don't think there is enough information in that passage to prove the born again experience has already happened.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
It's not about the means of "grace" for salvation down through time, but the doctrine of the gospel of grace. Grace is the cause of creation born out of eternal love. What do you do with Acts 17:30-31 & Eph 2:12 ? Let the words on the page say what they mean and mean what they say, or just continue to carnalize them & God.
I don't think anybody is born of the spirit yet Vernon. I'm not saying that we don't have the Holy spirit and the fact that we are not born again yet does not take anything away from the salvation experience.
A Christian will one day be born again literally just like the bible says, but it doesn't happen until the last member of the body comes in. The new birth is the birth of the body of Christ, that birth is found in the book of Revelation.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
A Christian will one day be born again literally just like the bible says, but it doesn't happen until the last member of the body comes in. The new birth is the birth of the body of Christ, that birth is found in the book of Revelation.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
J
That is a "Worldwide Church of God" belief, a worldwide cult. That's where I have heard that belief. The only place. From what one of them told me, long ago, they believe we won't be born again until the new kingdom (whatever they believe that to be).
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
(John 3:7,21)
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new
(2 Corinthians 5:17)
When you are born again (receiving the "new birth", the Holy Spirit of God inside your body), you will love Jesus and you will love and want to obey the Word of God, the Bible. You will literally be a changed person from what you were before.
Jumpmaster
R
It's required to enter the kingdom, and entering the kingdom is not a thing that is reserved only for post-physical death as has been taught.
It's not "going to heaven when you die".
It's within reach, and it's on the inside.
Born again means you gotta wipe your mind of everything you've been taught or made yourself to believe, and start learning it all over from scratch, with the intent of getting down to the real nitty-gritty.
That means you gotta put everything you ever heard in church on the line.
Jesus says it has to be a birth of water and the spirit.
Water is the full range of human emotion, from sadness to joy, and the spirit is the will to utterly perish for another if necessary.
That means that if you did believe in an definitive end of the existence of the complete individual, physical, mental, and spiritual, that you would go to that destruction to spare another person. You'd "go to hell", whatever your concept of it is, in trade.
You gotta love a stranger a good bit for that one, and if you really do, you learn something new about all that which can only come from the Father. You gotta actually play it out in your mind in prayer, not just a fleeting concept.
John 3 and 1 Peter 1 which use the term "born again" make detailed reference to this relearning from scratch, but it's missed because the only words that usually come off that page are "born again" because it's so easy for someone to "change their ways" in ANY loose interpretation of "born again" and claim they've done it. Some people are led to think that just deciding to believe Jesus was a real person and begin going to church constitutes being "born again"
Pay close attention to what Jesus says to Nicodemus all around the phrase born again. Nicodemus is a religiously learned man, and Jesus is saying in a very nice way "you don't know squat"
Pay close attention to Peter, the recalibration is love centric, not "gematria" or "original text" or "divine the future" and so on - centric.
You gotta call BS on a lot of religious things and recalibrate on who God and Jesus are to be "born again"
They are much more awesome and present than religion depicts.
This same process of relearning from scratch is described in various other ways in the OT, " shut yourself in your house " " sat among them astonished 7 days " and " dwell by the river 'cut-off' " and so on.
A newborn infant must learn to talk, walk, and so on, having no previous knowledge of it. A child doesn't ask another person how to talk until already well versed in language, and very little at that. And I've never known a toddler to ask another person how to walk. They get those from observation and a mysterious source.
If a parent never provoked a baby to say first words, or a parent never focused on leading the toddler around by both hands, that child will still learn to talk and walk. My guess is they'd probably even be better at it.
Borderline statement:
Think of all the things that go on in a baby's mind as much as you can. See if you can see the process from birth to a socially capable seven years old recorded by year in symbolic detail in Genesis chapter 1
"born again" -> "kingdom of heaven"
No bible college degree required. But it won't go much farther than chapter 1 without unfakeable LOVE
And every little bit you disclose has the potential to alienate the unbeliever, or even worse robs another person of the personal experience!
It's not "going to heaven when you die".
It's within reach, and it's on the inside.
Born again means you gotta wipe your mind of everything you've been taught or made yourself to believe, and start learning it all over from scratch, with the intent of getting down to the real nitty-gritty.
That means you gotta put everything you ever heard in church on the line.
Jesus says it has to be a birth of water and the spirit.
Water is the full range of human emotion, from sadness to joy, and the spirit is the will to utterly perish for another if necessary.
That means that if you did believe in an definitive end of the existence of the complete individual, physical, mental, and spiritual, that you would go to that destruction to spare another person. You'd "go to hell", whatever your concept of it is, in trade.
You gotta love a stranger a good bit for that one, and if you really do, you learn something new about all that which can only come from the Father. You gotta actually play it out in your mind in prayer, not just a fleeting concept.
John 3 and 1 Peter 1 which use the term "born again" make detailed reference to this relearning from scratch, but it's missed because the only words that usually come off that page are "born again" because it's so easy for someone to "change their ways" in ANY loose interpretation of "born again" and claim they've done it. Some people are led to think that just deciding to believe Jesus was a real person and begin going to church constitutes being "born again"
Pay close attention to what Jesus says to Nicodemus all around the phrase born again. Nicodemus is a religiously learned man, and Jesus is saying in a very nice way "you don't know squat"
Pay close attention to Peter, the recalibration is love centric, not "gematria" or "original text" or "divine the future" and so on - centric.
You gotta call BS on a lot of religious things and recalibrate on who God and Jesus are to be "born again"
They are much more awesome and present than religion depicts.
This same process of relearning from scratch is described in various other ways in the OT, " shut yourself in your house " " sat among them astonished 7 days " and " dwell by the river 'cut-off' " and so on.
A newborn infant must learn to talk, walk, and so on, having no previous knowledge of it. A child doesn't ask another person how to talk until already well versed in language, and very little at that. And I've never known a toddler to ask another person how to walk. They get those from observation and a mysterious source.
If a parent never provoked a baby to say first words, or a parent never focused on leading the toddler around by both hands, that child will still learn to talk and walk. My guess is they'd probably even be better at it.
Borderline statement:
Think of all the things that go on in a baby's mind as much as you can. See if you can see the process from birth to a socially capable seven years old recorded by year in symbolic detail in Genesis chapter 1
"born again" -> "kingdom of heaven"
No bible college degree required. But it won't go much farther than chapter 1 without unfakeable LOVE
And every little bit you disclose has the potential to alienate the unbeliever, or even worse robs another person of the personal experience!