Are we justified by works?

[mailmandan]

and this is on a very basic issue of how to be justified, is it works or is it faith???

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

 

[BillG]

think if a non-christian comes here and reads this thread. they see confusion chaos bickering negativity unloving words and mocking. and this is on a very basic issue of how to be justified, is it works or is it faith??? how about this: its by faith and all shall confess Jesus as Lord. you do good because God gives you love towards people and you are a walking epistle of Christ......

if we christians dont stop this bickering on our own forums im afraid we will be a bad witness to non-christians who might be reading this, i hope someone agrees with me amen?? try to understand other points of view and love one another like Jesus said!!!

I agree with you.

The problem with this and poster and others on this site the poster is not looking for a discussion or looking to learn.

The internet is to prove themselves right and everyone who disagrees wrong.

The question of this post end with a ?

One would suspect then that it is a question, that being the case this should open a discussion.

The poster is not open to discussion, just wants to bang away with their belief in this matter.

 

[FranC]

"trusting" your works makes little difference when your works are rotten to the core. they may have believed (trusted) their works but thats not what Jesus taught against, he taught against the works themselves.

I could say much here, but won't. This thread is like so many others, full of mistaken exegesis.

BUT, did you just say Jesus taught AGAINST works???

If this is what you said, could you please post some scripture where JESUS said this.

Thanks.

 

[Chris1975]

think if a non-christian comes here and reads this thread. they see confusion chaos bickering negativity unloving words and mocking. and this is on a very basic issue of how to be justified, is it works or is it faith??? how about this: its by faith and all shall confess Jesus as Lord. you do good because God gives you love towards people and you are a walking epistle of Christ......

if we christians dont stop this bickering on our own forums im afraid we will be a bad witness to non-christians who might be reading this, i hope someone agrees with me amen?? try to understand other points of view and love one another like Jesus said!!!

[h=1]Luke 6:46New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Build on the Rock[/h][SUP]46 [/SUP]“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

 

[BillG]

I have never stated that works alone justify us. What I have stated is the following: [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Ok clarify what you mean by justified.

remove justified from the above sentence and replace it with another

 

[FranC]

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

Hi MMD

FAITH ALONE WITH NO WORKS JUSTIFIES.

What you're referring to above is SANCTIFICATION.

(I have a dry throat)

 

[Grace777x70]

We can take any scripture and isolate it from the finished work of Christ and come up with anything - such as this "Works justifies us".



Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. Christ Himself is Truth.

All context starts and ends with the revelation of the risen Christ Himself. All scripture must be filtered through the finished work of Christ in order to get the context needed when reading all scripture.

 

[Muzungu256]

Luke 6:46New King James Version (NKJV)

Build on the Rock

[SUP]46 [/SUP]“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

its time for bible shoot out ????? ok i will fire only this one round and then be done:

romans 10:9
that if with your mouth you confess Jesus as Lord and in your heart believe that God brought Him back to life, you shall be saved.

 

[Chris1975]

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

^^^ agreed..

 

[Chris1975]

its time for bible shoot out ????? ok i will fire only this one round and then be done:

romans 10:9
that if with your mouth you confess Jesus as Lord and in your heart believe that God brought Him back to life, you shall be saved.

[h=1]Luke 6:46New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Build on the Rock[/h][SUP]46 [/SUP]“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

 

[FranC]

Ok clarify what you mean by justified.

remove justified from the above sentence and replace it with another

Hi Bill,
Sometimes when writing, the writers of the letters mixed up justification and sanctification, as evidenced by the verse in post no. 145 (you see then that a man is justified by works).

It was some time after Jesus' ascension, when the early church theologians started to put everything together, that the distinction was made between justification and sanctification.

I believe we need to keep this in mind and not get the two mixed up...

For instance, the Holy Trinity is not mentioned in scripture, except by inference, and it's only after that the doctrine was conceived (based on scripture, of course).

It seems to me we're making some confusion here by posting that scripture...

P.S. I don't mean that YOU are making the confusion.

 

[Chris1975]

Without holiness (sanctification) we will not see the Lord.

[h=1]Hebrews 12:14New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

 

[BillG]

Hi Bill,
Sometimes when writing, the writers of the letters mixed up justification and sanctification, as evidenced by the verse in post no. 145 (you see then that a man is justified by works).

It was some time after Jesus' ascension, when the early church theologians started to put everything together, that the distinction was made between justification and sanctification.

I believe we need to keep this in mind and not get the two mixed up...

For instance, the Holy Trinity is not mentioned in scripture, except by inference, and it's only after that the doctrine was conceived (based on scripture, of course).

It seems to me we're making some confusion here by posting that scripture...

P.S. I don't mean that YOU are making the confusion.

yes I agree with you

 

[Chris1975]

Bbl people. See you later.

 

[BillG]

Bbl people. See you later.

Whats bbl mean?

 

[MadebyHim]

Justification means righteousness, we are made righteous in Him, by Him, and through Him. It's not our righteousness but His righteousness.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Isaiah 64:4-8

 

[BillG]

Justification means righteousness, we are made righteous in Him, by Him, and through Him. It's not our righteousness but His righteousness.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Isaiah 64:4-8

Thats what I think

Originally Posted by Chris1975

I have never stated that works alone justify us. What I have stated is the following: [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Maybe I am reading the above quote wrong but it seems to be saying that we are declared righteous by our works.

 

[mailmandan]

They are being judged on the lack of evidence of any works.

Lack of evidence of any works demonstrates a lack of evidence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. As we see in James 2:14 - the absence of evidence (of works) can be construed as evidence of absence (of faith).

Secondly, why is God judging them based on works AT ALL? When all that is required is faith.

Faith is what is required to become saved, yet works are the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of genuine faith. Yet we are still saved through faith and not by works. It's the same in Romans 2:6-10. If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not.

lack of works = everlasting punishment

lack of works demonstrates lack of faith which = everlasting punishment.

 

[FranC]

I have never stated that works alone justify us. What I have stated is the following: [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

A man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH ALONE.

(My mouth is dry)

 

[BillG]

A man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH ALONE.

(My mouth is dry)

And a genuine saving faith will bear fruit