Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

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Issachar92

Issachar92

Banned
#81
Jan 21, 2017
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#81
What is "faith"?
Faith = trust, fidelity, faithfulness, to be persuaded of something.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

As shown above to believe and to obey, is all the same. Just like if you were to tell someone to do something and they say I believe you, but dont do what you say, now that person just lied to you, they didn't infact believe, they just claimed that they did.

Read hebrews 11 for multiple examples of faith.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#82
Mar 22, 2015
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#82
Issachar92 said:
What is "faith"?
Faith = trust, fidelity, faithfulness, to be persuaded of something.
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Faithfulness and fidelity are the consequence of faith. The thief on the cross had faith, but where was his faithfulness and fidelity?


John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

As shown above to believe and to obey, is all the same.
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LOL all words mean the same? Belief in the Son RESULTS in obedience because it lead to life. It results in the obedience which springs from faith. But it does not itself mean obedience,

Just like if you were to tell someone to do something and they say I believe you, but dont do what you say, now that person just lied to you, they didn't infact believe, they just claimed that they did.
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I believe you is a strange response to the command to do something. It is in fact not a response at all. :) Surely it requires a reason why you should do something. '

But that sort of faith is not what Jesus meant when He said, 'He who believes in Me has eternal life'. He meant 'he who believes in Me and what I am and what I offer and responds to it as best as he is able because of Who I am and What I can do'.

Read hebrews 11 for multiple examples of faith.
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Actually Hebrews 11 is NOT about saving faith. It is about the faith which later results.
 
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Issachar92

Issachar92

Banned
#83
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#83
All you just did in your post is jump around and make obedience of no effect.
Nice job.

Belief in the Son results in obedience, WHEN? I see millions of christians all over the world proclaim the name of Jesus yet obedience has not followed. So WHEN does it follow? When God magically grants it? Come on now....
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#84
Feb 21, 2014
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#84
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith. Our works do not save us.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#86
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#86
Issachar92 said:
Belief in the Son results in obedience, WHEN?
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Obedience begins when you are first born again, but it develops over a lifetime.


I see millions of christians all over the world proclaim the name of Jesus yet obedience has not followed.
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If they are true Christians they are obedient in so far as they are able.

So WHEN does it follow? When God magically grants it?
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Obedience follows immediately, but what obedience involves takes a lifetime to gather.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#87
#87
news flash "faith" (STEADFAST faithfulness to God from heart purity) IS A WORK 24/7. Its time to mature and move on past the childish not of works arguments, especially since Paul was speaking of religious works and not moral good works toward God in good faith.. read all scriptures in context, not just a snippet that SEEMS TO appeal to the flesh...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#88
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#88
I see spongebob is still peddling works.....

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was put to his account for RIGHTEOUSNESS....

Paul concluded a man is justified by faith VOID OF WORKS....he was inspired...Spongebob is not!
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#89
Apr 27, 2017
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#89
Acts 5

[SUP]30 [/SUP]The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. [SUP]32 [/SUP]And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

1) Repentance
2) Forgiveness
3) Obedience

That is the pattern.

You think you have Jesus without Repentance?
You think you have the Spirit without obedience?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#90
Apr 7, 2014
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#90
Chris1975 said:
Acts 5

[SUP]30 [/SUP]The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. [SUP]32 [/SUP]And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

1) Repentance
2) Forgiveness
3) Obedience

That is the pattern.

You think you have Jesus without Repentance?
You think you have the Spirit without obedience?
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Who obeys Him? Believers or unbelievers? Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We obey the gospel/obey Him by choosing to believe the gospel. Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/good works (which only genuine believers produce) that follow the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#91
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
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#91
We are not saved by faith alone because faith without works is dead, and a dead faith is no faith at all.

How would that work in Christ's case, if He had faith alone? Ok so He genuinely believes that if He died on the cross, that we would be saved. Does His faith alone save us? If so, why did He go through with the work? If not, being that He is our Teacher, don't we have to follow our Leader by also going by faith and works? Is "carrying our cross daily" an actual requirement? What does our Teacher say? "Anyone who follows Me must carry their cross daily." "Must" means requirement in my dictionary.
 
K

Klassiter

Junior Member
#92
Sep 5, 2016
6
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#92
You are saved by the grace of God through faith by accepting Christ into you life.Once you have done that,the work that God is talking about is to Love God with all your heat and all your mind, and with all your strength and with all your soul. Then love your neighbor as you love yourself. So that you exceed the works of the Pharisees.
 
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