Are you RIGHTEOUS?

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Apr 30, 2016
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What was it about your belief that limey lied about?

You yourself say that the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments.

IF the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments and someone believes in the Lord Jesus but doesn't believe they have to work at the commandments, doesn't that cause John 12:48 to condemn them?

And if it condemns them doesn't that make them unrighteous? Can't be righteous and condemned, right?

Maybe you didn't think this all the way through. Or you didn't understand the implications of what you do believe.
Can't wait for LoveGodForever to answer this.

It's so convoluted i'd hardly know where to start...

The gospel IS TIED to the 10 Commandments.
Mathew 5.17

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law.



John 12:48 New International Version (NIV)

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

We are to accept the words JESUS spoke.
It seems to me that many here DO NOT accept His words.

Seems to me you posted the incorrect verse to support your position.

John 14:15
JESUS SPEAKING...

"If you love Me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I actually had not idea what Willybob was saying LOL...but I know Jesus is the answer to everything.;)


UG,

You didn't understand Willybob's post no. 384.
He's saying the opposite of what you understood.

No matter...
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
Can't wait for LoveGodForever to answer this.

It's so convoluted i'd hardly know where to start...

The gospel IS TIED to the 10 Commandments.
Mathew 5.17

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law.



John 12:48 New International Version (NIV)

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

We are to accept the words JESUS spoke.
It seems to me that many here DO NOT accept His words.

Seems to me you posted the incorrect verse to support your position.

John 14:15
JESUS SPEAKING...

"If you love Me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
Earlier Quote from FranC

Regading Beta's reply:


Here's why she's wrong...


There were three types of Law in the O.T.


Civil
Ceremonial
Moral


Jesus did abolish the Civil and Ceremonial.
HE DID NOT abolish the Moral Law.
God is a moral being and so that cannot be abolished.


Keeping the Sabbath was a ceremonial Law.
THAT HAS been abolished...
Is your train of thought based on a smorgasbord theology? Just pick and choose elements of the complete law of Moses, and choose which ones work for you?

I pulled an older post where you claim Jesus abolished the law....well little bits of it.

Yet the Old Covenant is a complete and perfect Covenant. Where do you get the license to chop it up and have Jesus "abolish" only parts of it. Please show me where Jesus abolished ANY of the Law.


I have explained in the past my perspective on the Sermon on the Mount, which seems to be the starting point of your commandment obeying philosophy.

When in reality the sermon on the mount was a very important part of the ministry of Jesus, he fully explained to the Jews, his present audience, how utterly hopeless their attempts to be righteous were.

And to wait and see what He was about to accomplish on their (and eventually our) behalf.

He is pointing to the law as a teacher, to point them away from it and to His Grace and Mercy.

Now Grace and Mercy is NOT the levitical lite that you are pushing.

His Grace ushered in a new covenant which allows the Spirit of God to live and dwell within us, as it did not and could not under the law.

If you read His words as instructions on how to live the Christian life then I believe you fail to understand the New Covenant as explained by Paul in His new covenant writings. (Remember Paul, He was personally visited by Jesus after the finished work on the Cross).

You fail to see the chronology of events that occurred, and that ultimately skews your perspective of reality.

You quote only the letters of the apostles that were a witness to Christs teachings under the Old Covenant.

The purpose you give Christs Sermon on the Mount, is certainly different than the purpose for which He gave it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Earlier Quote from FranC



Is your train of thought based on a smorgasbord theology? Just pick and choose elements of the complete law of Moses, and choose which ones work for you?

I pulled an older post where you claim Jesus abolished the law....well little bits of it.

Yet the Old Covenant is a complete and perfect Covenant. Where do you get the license to chop it up and have Jesus "abolish" only parts of it. Please show me where Jesus abolished ANY of the Law.


I have explained in the past my perspective on the Sermon on the Mount, which seems to be the starting point of your commandment obeying philosophy.

When in reality the sermon on the mount was a very important part of the ministry of Jesus, he fully explained to the Jews, his present audience, how utterly hopeless their attempts to be righteous were.

And to wait and see what He was about to accomplish on their (and eventually our) behalf.

He is pointing to the law as a teacher, to point them away from it and to His Grace and Mercy.

Now Grace and Mercy is NOT the levitical lite that you are pushing.

His Grace ushered in a new covenant which allows the Spirit of God to live and dwell within us, as it did not and could not under the law.

If you read His words as instructions on how to live the Christian life then I believe you fail to understand the New Covenant as explained by Paul in His new covenant writings. (Remember Paul, He was personally visited by Jesus after the finished work on the Cross).

You fail to see the chronology of events that occurred, and that ultimately skews your perspective of reality.

You quote only the letters of the apostles that were a witness to Christs teachings under the Old Covenant.

The purpose you give Christs Sermon on the Mount, is certainly different than the purpose for which He gave it.
Par for the course.....the verbiage, context, and inspired verb tenses get chopped up regularly so as to espouse things not taught nor given in the bible.......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Amen!!

Conditional security believers (whoever they may be, not pointing fingers) need to say Thank You Jesus! and get over themselves.

He has done what we can never do and the Sermon on the Mount should convict any heart of the utter inability of a person to earn salvation ...accept it!!



Earlier Quote from FranC



Is your train of thought based on a smorgasbord theology? Just pick and choose elements of the complete law of Moses, and choose which ones work for you?

I pulled an older post where you claim Jesus abolished the law....well little bits of it.

Yet the Old Covenant is a complete and perfect Covenant. Where do you get the license to chop it up and have Jesus "abolish" only parts of it. Please show me where Jesus abolished ANY of the Law.


I have explained in the past my perspective on the Sermon on the Mount, which seems to be the starting point of your commandment obeying philosophy.

When in reality the sermon on the mount was a very important part of the ministry of Jesus, he fully explained to the Jews, his present audience, how utterly hopeless their attempts to be righteous were.

And to wait and see what He was about to accomplish on their (and eventually our) behalf.

He is pointing to the law as a teacher, to point them away from it and to His Grace and Mercy.

Now Grace and Mercy is NOT the levitical lite that you are pushing.

His Grace ushered in a new covenant which allows the Spirit of God to live and dwell within us, as it did not and could not under the law.

If you read His words as instructions on how to live the Christian life then I believe you fail to understand the New Covenant as explained by Paul in His new covenant writings. (Remember Paul, He was personally visited by Jesus after the finished work on the Cross).

You fail to see the chronology of events that occurred, and that ultimately skews your perspective of reality.

You quote only the letters of the apostles that were a witness to Christs teachings under the Old Covenant.

The purpose you give Christs Sermon on the Mount, is certainly different than the purpose for which He gave it.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
Can't wait for LoveGodForever to answer this.

It's so convoluted i'd hardly know where to start...

The gospel IS TIED to the 10 Commandments.
Mathew 5.17

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law.



John 12:48 New International Version (NIV)

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

We are to accept the words JESUS spoke.
It seems to me that many here DO NOT accept His words.

Seems to me you posted the incorrect verse to support your position.

John 14:15
JESUS SPEAKING...

"If you love Me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
If the gospel is connected to the 10 commandments how is it convoluted?

Obviously working at the 10 commandments is part of Righteousness if it is connected to the gospel.

If it is not connected to the gospel then working at the 10 commandments is not part of Righteousness.


You both say that the 10 commandments are tied to the gospel so how come you can't be straight-forward about this??? Is it because you don't understand your own position??

Or is it because it is too easy to refute your silliness when it is put into simple terms?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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If the gospel is connected to the 10 commandments how is it convoluted?

Obviously working at the 10 commandments is part of Righteousness if it is connected to the gospel.

If it is not connected to the gospel then working at the 10 commandments is not part of Righteousness.


You both say that the 10 commandments are tied to the gospel so how come you can't be straight-forward about this??? Is it because you don't understand your own position??

Or is it because it is too easy to refute your silliness when it is put into simple terms?
Does not matter....1 commandment, 2 commandments or 613 commandment are irrelevant if one must KEEP the commandment to get, keep or remain saved then one must keep them 24/7/365 your whole life or be found guilty of the whole law.....The bible is clear (Romans 3) the law DEEMS the hole world GUILTY that EVERY MOUTH may be stopped.....but now we SEE the righteousness of the LAW being manifested IN CHRIST and his righteousness is IMPUTED unto ALL who believe without the DEEDS OF THE LAW (Romans 3 and 4)..........

it is either FAITH/GRACE or it is WORKS.......end of story....those who choose WORKS reject GRACE.......and WORKS do not save, keep saved or embellish salvation.......!
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
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I've always said salvation by grace through faith, not works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a tragedy that such people refuse to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they are too busy trusting in "their performance" to let go in order to receive Christ through faith. :(
Amen!!!...
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Jesus came to fulfill the law,which means He had to fulfill the Old Testament,which no man could have the Spirit to be perfect in tbe Old,and it needed to be fulfilled,which Jesus is sinless,the perfect saint,the perfect High Priest,the perfect King,perfect sacrifice,perfect Mediator,and whatever position He had to fulfill,and when Jesus reigns on earth for 1000 years as King,then He will completely fulfill the law by being the perfect King ruling on earth,fulfilling the Old Testament,which also impacts the New for He was perfect there too,having a sinless nature that could not waver.

Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another as I have loved you,and love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

In the New Testament we obey the 2 greatest laws,love God,and love people,and on those 2 laws hang all the law,and prophets.

Paul said,we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,and the law is spiritual,holy just,and good,the laws of love,and moral laws.Everybody has to live up to those laws being Christlike,which they could not do in the Old,but can do in the New by the Spirit.

Those laws are always in affect,and have to be obeyed for they are spiritual,and in the New we are spiritual by the Spirit.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us,because they did not have any bearing on spiritual salvation,but was only temporary to keep them right with God until Jesus came.

The 10 commandments is tied to the Gospel,for they are laws to love God,and love people,which we go by the spiritual laws in the New,love God,and love people,and moral laws,abstain from fleshy pleasures that war against the soul,and lay aside every weight of sin that does so easily beset us,and if anybody does not continue in the goodness of God shall be cut off,for the same rule applies in the New,as the Old,for they were cut off that did not abide,and will be cut off if they do not abide in the New.

But some will say sin does not affect their relationship with God,and act as if they are led of the Spirit regardless of how they behave,but the Bible says other wise.

Blessed is the person that endures temptation,does not sin,for they shall receive the crown of life,and for people that says that is only a reward,and not eternal life,but the crown is given to all saints who love Jesus,so obviously it is given to all the saints,and is eternal life,for will there be any people with Jesus who do not love Him.

Do not depart from the living God,going by the deceitfuless of sin,awake to righteousness,and sin not,and if a person holds unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away.

And again God said He wants all people to repent,and come to the truth,and be saved,and is the Savior of all people,and Jesus is the Savior of the world,that takes away all sins,and the Spirit and bride say,ding,ding,come and get it,for anybody can have that salvation,and Jesus lights every person that is born in this world.

Many are called but few are chosen,so God does the calling,and choosing on earth,so people need to stop believing that God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,which they do for the purpose they cannot fall,and if they hold unto sin they are alright.

That way they can enjoy fleshy pleasures,and worldliness,and money,and material things,and believe they are alright,or not to worry about it,no stress,not struggle,no worries,when the Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

When the man asked Jesus what He must do to inherit eternal life,and Jesus said obey the 6 commandments that have to do with loving people,some may say,but He is telling them that for the Old Testament was still in effect.

But the man said what must I do to inherit eternal life,and eternal life was not available in the Old,so Jesus would tell him what He must do to inherit eternal life applied in the New,and the man said,I obeyed them from my youth,which Jesus said you lack one thing,sell all you have and give to the poor,because love of people is the fulfilling of the law.

The Bible says that a Spirit led life will not fullfil the lusts of the flesh,which they will not sin,because they hate sin,and do not want sin,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,and have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,therefore they are not under the law,because all their sins are forgiven,and they do not hold unto sin,and are not sinning,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

The Spirit will only lead those that hate sin,and do not want sin.

But there is people that say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,but if a person holds unto sin,and does not want to give it up,then they are under the law.

A person is only not under the law that hates sin,and does not want sin,for only they can be led of the Spirit,and will show the characteristics of the Spirit,which there are no ways of the flesh there.

OSAS did an injustice among many scriptures,and is the cause for much hypocrisy,and giving offense to the ministry as people say,forget Christianity and their hyppcrisy,which God said give offense in nothing that the ministry be not blamed.

Which that alone should tell them that God wants them to abstain from sin to be right with Him,for if not then they are causing blame towards His Church.

If they believe the prosperity Gospel,the love of God does not dwell in them,and their faith is dead,and they erred from the faith,for they neglect the poor and needy,but they say,it does not affect them if they behave in such a manner.

Paul said if he did not have love,he is nothing,but love does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,but if they offend,say it does not affect us.

The Bible says those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,but if they do wrong,say it does not affect us.

The 10 commandments is tied to the Gospel,for they are laws of love towards God,and people,the 2 greatest laws,and love is the fulfilling of the law,which is why Jesus told the rich man to inherit salvation,obey the commandments to love people,and help the poor and needy.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
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By mashing the two covenants together you nullify the intended purpose of both.
There is a clear delineation of the two and you fail to see it. Pick one and truly live it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I've always said salvation by grace through faith, not works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a tragedy that such people refuse to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they are too busy trusting in "their performance" to let go in order to receive Christ through faith. :(
I hear you, and they make it easy, they say it is not works of the law, it is only works of faith, or it is not to get saved, but to maintain or keep it, any little twist to make it appear righteous,

Then attack the people who have Christ as their hope as easy belevist, when they prove how hard faith alone really is, because faith alone demands emptying self completely, if you do not do this, you will not get rid of performance
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Can't wait for LoveGodForever to answer this.

It's so convoluted i'd hardly know where to start...

The gospel IS TIED to the 10 Commandments.
Mathew 5.17

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law.



John 12:48 New International Version (NIV)

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

We are to accept the words JESUS spoke.
It seems to me that many here DO NOT accept His words.

Seems to me you posted the incorrect verse to support your position.

John 14:15
JESUS SPEAKING...

"If you love Me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".

Yes it is tied, but not as you think

it Is tied is as either we follow them All completely, and never break one as Jesus did, or we are condemned by them and under a curse,

saying the law is tied in any their way is to take us back t law, and reject grace, Galatians was written to prove this very thing,

as is said in scripture, if your going to follow one command, your indebted to follow them all, and the fact is, you better not fail once, because as James said if you do, no matter how small a sin it is, your guilty of the whole law.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
from my experience we will at times not love him as he loves us. That's why we go astray and get it wrong.
Ive done that but have I lost my love for Jesus?
I would say no, I would say I question his love for me.

When I have stumbled from that level path I find myself saying something along the lines of

"Jesus I'm in a shitpit, I've got it wrong and I have no idea how to get out of it, it's my fault. I suppose I don't really love you otherwise I wouldn't be here, please help me"

Then at some point I hear Jesus, he looks down in the shitpit I'm in, and he's says move aside I'm coming in, and he sits with me in the shitpit, and talks to me, then he says you ready to walk out this shitpit with me so we can leave this shit behind?

Then I walk out with him.

He gets right into the crap of my life with me.
Thats pure love, and no matter how many times I get it wrong, the fact I call out calling out to him he knows my heart.
A heart that seeks after him he will never rebuke or neglect.
He loves a broken heart that call out to him.

He says "I can deal with a broken and contrite heart and that's my Fathers will and business"
That's a good point BillG. I just don't know yet how to reconcile the passage in Revelations where He said to the church that they had lost their first love. Unless it's not a personal warning but to an assembly only..

I know He's always been with me through everything in life. I can even remember Him speaking to me when my daughter was in the hospital, and I wasn't even yet born again. Just believed in Him...

There's a lot that needs understood correctly and what I do know for sure...nothing can take us out of His hand.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Yet, I have not seen anyone admit, among those who do not believe in eternal security, that they are adding to the righteousness of Jesus to be saved.

I really can see no way around this in their conditional security?
It seems eternal security is the same as unconditional security now.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
First love is the love, the joy, the happiness one had in the beginning when born again. Here it faded, the fire was kindled and needed to be stirred to burn bright again. speaking of the holy ghost.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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By mashing the two covenants together you nullify the intended purpose of both.
There is a clear delineation of the two and you fail to see it. Pick one and truly live it.
AMEN and the bible is clear on this truth.....either GRACE or WORKS....if works, one must keep every law 24/7/365 their whole life......ALWAYS doing everything required....

if GRACE....acknowledge JESUS and simply believe it.....end of story.....
 
May 13, 2017
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I am the righteousness of God in the anointing of Jesus
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
So funny how we (those who know we are saved eternally apart form works) sound like broken records, But so sad it has to be this way!!



AMEN and the bible is clear on this truth.....either GRACE or WORKS....if works, one must keep every law 24/7/365 their whole life......ALWAYS doing everything required....

if GRACE....acknowledge JESUS and simply believe it.....end of story.....
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I dont know why this subject keeps coming up as controversial. We are saved BY grace FOR good works.Incredibly simple.