Are you "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit"?

[Eccl12and13]

I am not a sinner any more, I am forgiven. I am a high priest of the everlasting priesthood. I will pray as Jesus prayed, and with the same understanding that Jesus had when He prayed.

Jesus also gave us instruction on how to pray. Within those instructions we are told to ask for forgiveness of our sins.

If you are not asking God to forgive your sins you are breaking a law of God!

Sin is trespassing God's laws.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."


So....you can not ask for forgiveness. You can believe that you are not a sinner. You can make up any type of doctrine that you would like to make up.

But God's words are true. We are instructed to ask for forgiveness when we pray. If you are not doing as instructed.....if you are not obeying God's laws then you are breaking them. And no matter how anyone looks at it....if you are breaking God's laws you are a sinner.



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[AgapeSpiritEyes]

It is possible to fall away. In my current situation if I were to go back to what I know, and the key word is know, is wrong, and actually fight God and try to get more people in hell, then I have hate as my master. Never will I do this. It is true that one can fall away, but then again, I can't fall away, not after knowing God.

Praise God many have that were noted of great faith and love for the Lord I pray that your confidence is met by the power of the Holy Spirit to your finish line


Can is the possibility the potentiality the capacity which is not yet swallowed up in victory not yet as a present tense reality until the flesh has completely died, crucifixion is a daily experience until death you have a choice, my or anyone else' faith may be in their cogitate exercise and may be to our limited faith but the Holy Spirit knows all the soul and heart to the uttermost of which he is working to eliminate sin & iniquity when He wants to reveal what you or i must overcome and that is our time of choosing to say someone "can" not (ones potentially or capacity) or will not yield to the sin, flesh, self is pretentious for me of which i cannot trust my state of maturity or self-confidence of my spiritual state but to seize the opportunity to fear trusting in any of myself ask the help of the Lord and His Holy Spirit, this walk has an immense fragility to it the help of the Paraclete of the Lord and the Holy Spirit is the greatest dire want and need to cling to desperately humbly and with the greatest care and watchfulness.
"May" is the capacity to permit / therefore you may not (permit not ) the falling away by sin

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Praise God many have that were noted of great faith and love for the Lord I pray that your confidence is met by the power of the Holy Spirit to your finish line


Can is the possibility the potentiality the capacity which is not yet swallowed up in victory not yet as a present tense reality until the flesh has completely died, crucifixion is a daily experience until death you have a choice, my or anyone else' faith may be in their cogitate exercise and may be to our limited faith but the Holy Spirit knows all the soul and heart to the uttermost of which he is working to eliminate sin & iniquity when He wants to reveal what you or i must overcome and that is our time of choosing to say someone "can" not (ones potentially or capacity) or will not yield to the sin, flesh, self is pretentious for me of which i cannot trust my state of maturity or self-confidence of my spiritual state but to seize the opportunity to fear trusting in any of myself ask the help of the Lord and His Holy Spirit, this walk has an immense fragility to it the help of the Paraclete of the Lord and the Holy Spirit is the greatest dire want and need to cling to desperately humbly and with the greatest care and watchfulness.
"May" is the capacity to permit / therefore you may not (permit not ) the falling away by sin

Can you fall away if God is holding your hand?

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

Can you fall away if God is holding your hand?

Is He literally holding our hand or is this a cogitate idea of wishful hope or figurative or Spiritually hope or something else? Whether it is literal or some qua-say figurative... What if He allows you to let go and you walk away or wander away by losing your focus or see something else you wanted or were lured or tempted to release your hand and go? If is stipulated upon may or permitted, can which is potential or choice, if we asked then we are told we are not permitted (that t is not His will) thus we have the can which what do we choose? If we do ask then we are not open or not open to receive His will and then choose to do or not do but usually this is much quicker in the occasion of the event that is why our walk is very fragile. Most, not all the time, of the time it is not so fully conscious happening quickly (sins deception).

 

[Ariel82]

we are not under the law in terms of not being condemned and knowing God has and will forgive us when we do not meet His expectation. we do not obey God's law out of fear that if we don't God will punish us but out of love to please our Heavenly Father.

we run the race according to the rules or become disqualified for the prize of an imperishable crown. However some do it and seek only a perishable crown. many don't even bother to find out the difference. still God's love is eternal.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

New King James Version (NKJV)

Striving for a Crown

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

 

[psychomom]

Many in the church today interpret this scripture to say that because man is weak, we should brag of our own sinfulness in order to lift up God's willingness to forgive sin. That view is utter nonsense! What this scripture actually teaches is that God's strength is made perfect in our weakness, for when we turn to Him in our moment of weakness His grace provides us with access to His strength to both endure and overcome such difficult times.

Just...wow.
I don't know where you are seeing these people. I have never seen this taught, or expressed as a belief by anyone who names the Name of Jesus for salvation.

So I thank the Lord for that,
and I am a little sorry for you, that you see this professed.
-ellie

 

[Eccl12and13]

We do not obey God's law out of fear that if we don't God will punish us but out of love to please our Heavenly Father.

Use whatever terms you may.... the bottom line is still the following; There are laws of God that have not been done away with. There are laws of God that ALL are still under and must be kept. And if you continue to break those laws....like it or not, believe it or not....God IS going to punish you for not keeping them

This we know for sure...for we have the following scriptures as proof;

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that keep God's laws are saved.
Those that do not keep God's laws are punished



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[GRA]

We are "under" two laws:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ~ Mat 22:37-40

Being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit "unto the day of redemption" and being "filled" with the Holy Spirit are two distinctly different things. The first occurs at "spiritual re-birth" and continues forever. The second describes a "state of being" that can "fluctuate" from moment to moment in the life of the believer based on the "current condition" of the person's relationship with God. In a way, it is "a measure of how much of ourselves we have surrendered to Him" -- the more we "surrender" to Him - the more "full" of the Holy Spirit we will be.



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[psychomom]

Use whatever terms you may.... the bottom line is still the following; There are laws of God that have not been done away with. There are laws of God that ALL are still under and must be kept. And if you continue to break those laws....like it or not, believe it or not....God IS going to punish you for not keeping them

This we know for sure...for we have the following scriptures as proof;

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that keep God's laws are saved.
Those that do not keep God's laws are punished.

Can you tell us which laws are done away, and which we are obliged to keep?

"Those that keep God's laws are saved." you said.
Can you show us, definitively, and without skipping around and choosing one verse here and there, how this is so?

Can you tell us what Christ accomplished, and how what you say is true under the New Covenant made with the Blood of Jesus?
-ellie

 

[Crossfire]

Just...wow.
I don't know where you are seeing these people. I have never seen this taught, or expressed as a belief by anyone who names the Name of Jesus for salvation.

So I thank the Lord for that,
and I am a little sorry for you, that you see this professed.
-ellie

Unfortunately, I've seen this stuff a lot in my area. A large portion of people are taught that all salvation requires is is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, otherwise you can live however you like no matter how sinful. There are churches with openly gay pastors and others who embrace homosexual couples. There are drug dealers here who will argue with you that they are saved.

 

[psychomom]

Unfortunately, I've seen this stuff a lot in my area. A large portion of people are taught that all salvation requires is is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, otherwise you can live however you like no matter how sinful. There are churches with openly gay pastors and others who embrace homosexual couples. There are drug dealers here who will argue with you that they are saved.

Once again I thank God for my little rural area of this world!

Of course, faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ is all that's needed,
but it goes hand in hand with the rest of the Gospel, right?
It has to be given by God, through His grace,
and not just "believed".
Even the fallen angels "believe".
They know better than people Who God is.

I'm also grateful I don't have to make those "who is saved and who is not" decisions,
because I am afraid my heart is not full of grace and mercy toward others.
Not like God's is.
*whew*!

 

[Crossfire]

Once again I thank God for my little rural area of this world!

Of course, faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ is all that's needed,
but it goes hand in hand with the rest of the Gospel, right?
It has to be given by God, through His grace,
and not just "believed".
Even the fallen angels "believe".
They know better than people Who God is.

I'm also grateful I don't have to make those "who is saved and who is not" decisions,
because I am afraid my heart is not full of grace and mercy toward others.
Not like God's is.
*whew*!

You're right, it's not our place to judge however, God has already judged sin through His word. We are to present His word in love and allow the Holy Spirit to do the convicting. Our role is to simply point the way toward Christ in loving manner as Christ Himself would do.

 

[Stephen63]

 1 John 2:1 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
The word "i advocate" means intercessor, comforter. Jesus speaks to the Father on our behalf for the sins we commit. We must confess and forsake these sins, bringing forth fruits necessary for repentance. Is this what you are looking for, Eccl12and13?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Can you tell us which laws are done away, and which we are obliged to keep?

"Those that keep God's laws are saved." you said.
Can you show us, definitively, and without skipping around and choosing one verse here and there, how this is so?

Can you tell us what Christ accomplished, and how what you say is true under the New Covenant made with the Blood of Jesus?
-ellie

First off...you must know how God tells us to prove doctrine.

And to prove doctrine we are to:

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

We are to use ALL scripture. That would be everything from Gen. to Rev. Next......

Isa.28
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Above God tells us to search His word with precept, or (tenet, canon, code, doctrine, guideline, working principle, law, ordinance). This means that we must search the scripture for like things. In other words, compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. And when we do this we are to look here and there throughout His word.


So.....to answer your question; "Can you show us, definitively, and without skipping around and choosing one verse here and there, how this is so?"


I most assuredly can....but I can only answer it the way God instructs us to do so; using ALL of His word and searching here and there, line upon line, precept upon precept.

If that agrees with you then I will provide the answer. If you do not wish to have the answer explained according to the instructions of the bible...then I cannot.


What say ye?



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[psychomom]

Feel free!
If you will use the Word to prove your case:
1) which parts of the law of Moses are binding upon the believer
2)to be saved one must keep said laws

At least, that is what I meant by my questions, but I seem to be poor at phrasing,
so if that's not what you "heard" it's most likely my "bad".
And if that isn't what you were saying, I'll send you some flowers.
Just tell me which are your favorites.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Feel free!
If you will use the Word to prove your case:
1) which parts of the law of Moses are binding upon the believer
2)to be saved one must keep said laws

Just one question....

If one continues to break God's laws and do so until his death will they be allowed into His kingdom?



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[BarlyGurl]

Barlygurl I am not targeting you but you just put the position of this false doctrine so perfectly... So I want to show ALL where the error is in this reasoning....

Pople think that when you are filled with the Holy Spirit you can still sin. That is so wrong, and plenty verses says otherwise right through scripture. I do agree we can still sin on our way to the Holy Spirit batism, but AFTER God filled you with the Holy Spirit you are 100% Christ-like. If you still need to become completely Christ Like, you still lack the FILLING OF THE SPIRIT. because it is the filling of the Holy SPirit that makes you COMPLETE IN CHRIST!

God first send His Holy Spirit to lead us befoer He fills us. Once filled we CANNOT sin. 1 John3:9 and 1 John5:18. And this is where people get confused, becasue a lot that is still led by the Spirit clame to be filled by the Spirit. Way too many people believe lies that pastors preach.

Every person that is FILLED with the Holy Spirit is as perfect as God is perfect. They are filled with GOD! How can they sin? Or still lack being Christ like? If the Holy Spirit fills any person that person is 100% Christ like! If it is not so, what does make a person 100 % to the measure of Christ, Like it is expalined in Eph4:11 to 13... Uto a perfect MAN!

YOU are are in error Cobus.
THe scriptures tell us we are made perfect in CHRIST. It is true that we are outwardly wooed by the Holy Spirit to bring us to the salvation decision. THe Holy Spirit baptized/immersed us into JESUS... THis puts us in RIGHT STANDING WITH GOD FOR ALWAYS... it makes us children of God, we are adopted in and when God looks at us He sees the perfection of JESUS... we are covered by the blood and God no longer IMPUTES sin unto us EVER. WE are baptized by a diciple in water... this is the outward sign. We are ALSO baptized/immersed in the Holy Spirit by JESUS and as Red pointed out... there is a continual filling requirement.
ALL believers can sin... because we have free will and we can choose... but the SIN is not imputed to us by God... because of Jesus we have right/perfect standing before God. This has NOTHING to do with out behavior, as we renew our mind in Christ? correct our thinking the Holy Spirit convicts us when we are in error... we are thus prompted to grow... this is the sanctificaton process... we sin less and less. THe motivator her is out LOVE for Christ and what he has done for us... it is not motivated by fear of punishment.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Just one question....

If one continues to break God's laws and do so until his death will they be allowed into His kingdom?



.

You are going at this this as if all people are equal in intellectual ability, reasoning power, age in the Lord, have equal theological resources available to them. This question CANNOT be answered absolutely. The parable of the wheat and the tares is the answer to your question. We are not supposed to be concerned about tares spoiling the harvest... that is the solely in the hands of the Harvester. I would encourage YOU to ask the Holy Spirit to help you better understand the gospel message which should resolve your concerns.

 

[psychomom]

Just one question....

If one continues to break God's laws and do so until his death will they be allowed into His kingdom?

I cannot answer that until I know which of God's laws you refer to.
I think we have a different understanding of the answer to that.

And BarlyGurl is right...we are not to make these asumptions, considering who is saved and who is not. We can only see the outward, and never the heart.
And I do mean 'saved' from the penalty of sin, or ever having their sin imputed to them.

You are trying to mix the covenants, of which the new was signified by the death of the Testator---Jesus. (check out Hebrews 9 )
We are not ever to reckon our own righteousness makes us righteous in God's eyes. (obeying the law)
Absolutely nothing less then Christ's righteousness can make us righteous in the sight of the Father.
But praise God!! We have the righteousness of Jesus not only available to us, but covering us, making us acceptable to the Father!
If we are IN Christ, we are reconciled to the Father! (Rom, 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:18)

It really is something to get excited about, and that makes us want to share it with absolutely everyone because it is such good news.

 

[RickShafer]

The OP is trying to use the liberty we have in Christ Jesus as an excuse to return to bondage. - Galatians 2:4
It's a pride thing.
The truth is he sins worse than all of us.
How so?
By trampling the blood of Christ; and attaching works to His perfect life and obedient death.
Same old spirit that say's - "Save yourself".