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J
We are commanded to obey. I have never said you should disobey God.
I have not said that either. I do not know where you are getting this idea.
I'll let you figure that out.
This is the difference.
What I believe:
What you proclaim:
Your menstrual rags will not save you.
You can pile up as many bloody tampons and chuckie cheese tokens you want, but they will not atone. Only Christ can save you. You are wicked and vile.* Cotex doesn't take care of that.
Quit fooling yourself with your works righteousness. You cannot work your way to God. Obedience comes as a result of having been saved.
*So is everyone else (Romans 3:23)
See above.
No, Libertarian Free Will is an Enlightenment notion produced by heathen who were insolent God-haters.
John 6:44
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
As you should know from elementary school, "Can" is a word of ability, not permission.
They are not able to choose otherwise because their hearts desire is wickedness and rebellion against God. EDIT: In other words, they choose against God because that is their hearts desire. Their hearts desire is not to please God.
Romans 3:11
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
Ezekiel 36:26
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
God must change a man's heart.
Abandon this false gospel that works saves a man.
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
I have not said that either. I do not know where you are getting this idea.
I'll let you figure that out.
This is the difference.
What I believe:
What you proclaim:
Your menstrual rags will not save you.
You can pile up as many bloody tampons and chuckie cheese tokens you want, but they will not atone. Only Christ can save you. You are wicked and vile.* Cotex doesn't take care of that.
Quit fooling yourself with your works righteousness. You cannot work your way to God. Obedience comes as a result of having been saved.
*So is everyone else (Romans 3:23)
See above.
No, Libertarian Free Will is an Enlightenment notion produced by heathen who were insolent God-haters.
John 6:44
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
As you should know from elementary school, "Can" is a word of ability, not permission.
They are not able to choose otherwise because their hearts desire is wickedness and rebellion against God. EDIT: In other words, they choose against God because that is their hearts desire. Their hearts desire is not to please God.
Romans 3:11
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
Ezekiel 36:26
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
God must change a man's heart.
Abandon this false gospel that works saves a man.
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
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M
I agree
(read emphasis above from me)
By the Grace of God.
Why not go rather to those who are perishing and tell them the Good News. Perhaps the LORD will draw them to Christ.
10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. - Luke 2
F
Work = good deeds or bad. Greek word in Eph 2
Strongs: "works"
ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.
Obedience = not a deed but a duty Greek word in Luke 17:10,
Stongs: "Duty"
opheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.
Now Luke 17:10:
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
So keeping all that is commanded, is our "duty" - our opheilo
Is is not our "work" ergos.
Jimmy,
Are "works" and "duties" the same according to their words and definitions? If "no" as you can see they are not, then why are you bringing up works in a discussion of doing our duty (obedience)?
If they are different words and definitions, then they have nothing to do with one another. So your trying ot MIX them to mean the same thing because you otherwise dont have an argument.
Is a work, and a duty the same? Is obedience a good deed?
If duty is what we are "required" "indebted" to do, and Jesus says our duty is keeping all that is commanded (obedience) do we have to do this in order to obtain heaven?
So your whole disgusting tampon illustration was just a straw man, that had nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I agree, no one is saved by doing good deeds. (so now either prove they are the same, or leave good deeds out of the argument)
I also believe obedience is NOT a good deed, but a reqouirment and the least we can do.
Strongs: "works"
ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.
Obedience = not a deed but a duty Greek word in Luke 17:10,
Stongs: "Duty"
opheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.
Now Luke 17:10:
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
So keeping all that is commanded, is our "duty" - our opheilo
Is is not our "work" ergos.
Jimmy,
Are "works" and "duties" the same according to their words and definitions? If "no" as you can see they are not, then why are you bringing up works in a discussion of doing our duty (obedience)?
If they are different words and definitions, then they have nothing to do with one another. So your trying ot MIX them to mean the same thing because you otherwise dont have an argument.
Is a work, and a duty the same? Is obedience a good deed?
If duty is what we are "required" "indebted" to do, and Jesus says our duty is keeping all that is commanded (obedience) do we have to do this in order to obtain heaven?
So your whole disgusting tampon illustration was just a straw man, that had nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I agree, no one is saved by doing good deeds. (so now either prove they are the same, or leave good deeds out of the argument)
I also believe obedience is NOT a good deed, but a reqouirment and the least we can do.
WOW,what a loaded question, I pray you all will answer yes, and learn what it means to be saved, compared to the false salvation message being sold today:
When it comes to the message of the cross, and what constitutes a real saving faith in the professing Christian world, you don’t have to go far to see just how far off the mark the gospel being preached today has come!
Its miles, and miles away from what was established by Christ and His followers many centuries ago! Today the truth has become an outright lie, making it virtually impossible for the truly seeking individual to find any truth whatsoever in the churches and denominations today.
God has made it clear through His disciple Peter, that His judgment will begin first and foremost in the house of God, which is His church, but today the church system as we call it, is so far off from being the house of God, that His judgment is coming sooner than later!
How can anyone in this mess ever come to a saving faith, which is the simple message Christ and His devout followers preached right from the beginning, He cried, repent or perish, turn and forsake your evil ways, and follow me on the straight and narrow way!
But today it’s just the opposite, the house of God is more like a den of thieves, full of unconverted professing Christians, fighting with everything they have to preserve their saved in sin, substitution gospel, that is a far cry from what the early church taught and died for!
Now IF you do the research you can clearly see just how these powerful scriptures are coming into the light! Just go to most churches, or question the popular ministries, and it’s all the same message, of just confess, trust and believe Jesus took your place, and the wrath of God has been lifted from you, because you accepted this lie, telling you when you throw out all the fluff, that you can sin like the devil and still make it into the kingdom, because you said the prayer, cried a few tears, but did nothing to come before all mighty God the judge of all, broken and contrite in real repentance and a working faith in Love. Galatians 5-6, 2Corin 7-10-11.
For those who do not shake and tremble at these verses, you should do a quick check to make sure you faith hasn’t become shipwrecked!
Since God is making it clear it will be difficult for the saved to enter into the kingdom, He then states what about those who disobey His truth? What will be their end? And I don’t think He is telling us those who disobey are the ones who have not received Christ by saying a little prayer, hoping God will forgive and overlook all their sins against Him!
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he also will reap.
Gal 6:8 For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting from the Spirit.
Now if those who do what is right by God are scarcely saved, then what hope has the wicked and ungodly have?
God wasn’t joking when He said, few will be saved, many will take the wide, easy road, His wrath is upon the children of disobedience, and you must endure to the end to be saved!
So it’s vital to understand that the provision gospel isn’t the answer, in fact it’s so far from the truth, that many will not escape the snare of the lie coming right from the pit, that says you can sin and live, God doesn’t see your wicked heart, but Jesus, He loves you as you keep feeding your flesh in lust, greed, and idolatry, ignoring His commands to repent or perish!
Jesus didn’t repent for you, He didn’t become your righteousness, or take your wrath or punishment as many teach today, But He did create us in His own image, pure, and willing and able to choose our path in life, which many have already! They believe they can sin and disobey God, because all is done for them, and they received the gift!(the mark)
That is why its imperative we all work out our salvation with fear and trembling, make our calling sure, be doers OF the word and overcomers of sin, temptation and the devil remaining undefiled from the world, stand fast in the truth, keeping it pure and holy as we keep ourselves as commanded, otherwise you will fall away into perdition and may not come to real repentance and faith, proven by deeds as commanded in the word of God.
There is no such thing as easy salvation, it does come with high price, and many saints have fallen away into sin, and worldliness, forsaking their first love, thus proving what God clearly says, that even the righteous will have a difficult time staying pure and in the faith!
Jesus made a way through His great example for us to follow and obey, it takes diligence, self-control, and a strong desire to be holy as He is holy, not by some sort of provision He made for you, but by obeying from the heart, that has been made pure through repentance and an obedient faith, not based on some magical substitution, but based on a real commitment to the truth, and following Jesus on the narrow road.
Many are called, but few are chosen, and the chosen ones are simply the once who have actually crucified their flesh with Christ, Galatians 2-20, have come out of all the lies and deception, and standing firm on the gospel according to godliness handed down to the saints of old, who knew what it meant to walk a holy and separate life unto God, not trusting in a false provision, but on the power of Christ that set them free from sin. Now walking an upright life shining their light into the dark world, keeping pure and undefiled less they become disqualified and useless to their master!
They committed themselves to doing good and what is right, thus making them righteous and acceptable to God, not being perfect as God is, but walking in all humility, keeping their eye on the prize, and being certain they remain in His will and power to keep them strong in a world filled with many temptations, lies and pitfalls!
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as that One is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He who (produces) sin is of the Devil, for the Devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the Devil.
1Jn 3:9 Everyone who has been born of God does not commit sin, because His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
It’s about doing what is right because we all have free will and ability to do it, doing wrong, which is willful, presumptions sin against God is of the devil and not OF God, Jesus came to put to death the works of the devil, not take our place as we remain a poor, helpless sinner, struggling and fleshing out every day, and those who are born again through the baptism of repentance, and receiving the spirit of God, do not sin!
Tommy
What will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous one is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls in well-doing, as to a faithful Creator.
Its miles, and miles away from what was established by Christ and His followers many centuries ago! Today the truth has become an outright lie, making it virtually impossible for the truly seeking individual to find any truth whatsoever in the churches and denominations today.
God has made it clear through His disciple Peter, that His judgment will begin first and foremost in the house of God, which is His church, but today the church system as we call it, is so far off from being the house of God, that His judgment is coming sooner than later!
How can anyone in this mess ever come to a saving faith, which is the simple message Christ and His devout followers preached right from the beginning, He cried, repent or perish, turn and forsake your evil ways, and follow me on the straight and narrow way!
But today it’s just the opposite, the house of God is more like a den of thieves, full of unconverted professing Christians, fighting with everything they have to preserve their saved in sin, substitution gospel, that is a far cry from what the early church taught and died for!
Now IF you do the research you can clearly see just how these powerful scriptures are coming into the light! Just go to most churches, or question the popular ministries, and it’s all the same message, of just confess, trust and believe Jesus took your place, and the wrath of God has been lifted from you, because you accepted this lie, telling you when you throw out all the fluff, that you can sin like the devil and still make it into the kingdom, because you said the prayer, cried a few tears, but did nothing to come before all mighty God the judge of all, broken and contrite in real repentance and a working faith in Love. Galatians 5-6, 2Corin 7-10-11.
For those who do not shake and tremble at these verses, you should do a quick check to make sure you faith hasn’t become shipwrecked!
Since God is making it clear it will be difficult for the saved to enter into the kingdom, He then states what about those who disobey His truth? What will be their end? And I don’t think He is telling us those who disobey are the ones who have not received Christ by saying a little prayer, hoping God will forgive and overlook all their sins against Him!
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he also will reap.
Gal 6:8 For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting from the Spirit.
Now if those who do what is right by God are scarcely saved, then what hope has the wicked and ungodly have?
God wasn’t joking when He said, few will be saved, many will take the wide, easy road, His wrath is upon the children of disobedience, and you must endure to the end to be saved!
So it’s vital to understand that the provision gospel isn’t the answer, in fact it’s so far from the truth, that many will not escape the snare of the lie coming right from the pit, that says you can sin and live, God doesn’t see your wicked heart, but Jesus, He loves you as you keep feeding your flesh in lust, greed, and idolatry, ignoring His commands to repent or perish!
Jesus didn’t repent for you, He didn’t become your righteousness, or take your wrath or punishment as many teach today, But He did create us in His own image, pure, and willing and able to choose our path in life, which many have already! They believe they can sin and disobey God, because all is done for them, and they received the gift!(the mark)
That is why its imperative we all work out our salvation with fear and trembling, make our calling sure, be doers OF the word and overcomers of sin, temptation and the devil remaining undefiled from the world, stand fast in the truth, keeping it pure and holy as we keep ourselves as commanded, otherwise you will fall away into perdition and may not come to real repentance and faith, proven by deeds as commanded in the word of God.
There is no such thing as easy salvation, it does come with high price, and many saints have fallen away into sin, and worldliness, forsaking their first love, thus proving what God clearly says, that even the righteous will have a difficult time staying pure and in the faith!
Jesus made a way through His great example for us to follow and obey, it takes diligence, self-control, and a strong desire to be holy as He is holy, not by some sort of provision He made for you, but by obeying from the heart, that has been made pure through repentance and an obedient faith, not based on some magical substitution, but based on a real commitment to the truth, and following Jesus on the narrow road.
Many are called, but few are chosen, and the chosen ones are simply the once who have actually crucified their flesh with Christ, Galatians 2-20, have come out of all the lies and deception, and standing firm on the gospel according to godliness handed down to the saints of old, who knew what it meant to walk a holy and separate life unto God, not trusting in a false provision, but on the power of Christ that set them free from sin. Now walking an upright life shining their light into the dark world, keeping pure and undefiled less they become disqualified and useless to their master!
They committed themselves to doing good and what is right, thus making them righteous and acceptable to God, not being perfect as God is, but walking in all humility, keeping their eye on the prize, and being certain they remain in His will and power to keep them strong in a world filled with many temptations, lies and pitfalls!
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as that One is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He who (produces) sin is of the Devil, for the Devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the Devil.
1Jn 3:9 Everyone who has been born of God does not commit sin, because His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
It’s about doing what is right because we all have free will and ability to do it, doing wrong, which is willful, presumptions sin against God is of the devil and not OF God, Jesus came to put to death the works of the devil, not take our place as we remain a poor, helpless sinner, struggling and fleshing out every day, and those who are born again through the baptism of repentance, and receiving the spirit of God, do not sin!
Tommy
I am a spirit of man (heart/soul/mind/strength) who is motivated by and joined unto the Lord. If I am only motivated by God, then I cannot sin. The old man motivated by evil and the power of the flesh is the guilty one. I like to think of it like this: a person can decide to cut off the flesh (repentance), start cutting off the flesh(painful repentance), and then continue looking for anything else to cut off (humble repentance). I (the inner man/spirit of man) do not sin in the eyes of God, but only look for the next baby step to take me closer to God in any way possible. I consider my flesh nailed to the cross, and I will only know it is finally completely dead (the power of it) when either God tells me, or when it never has power over my spirit for all eternity. I (spirit) am saved = power of flesh dead or dying. I will not judge a person according to their dead or dying flesh. If the flesh is dying it is easy to see if you look for indications of it. If the flesh is not completely dead yet, the spirit by the Holy Spirit will be kept from being defiled.
M
Where did jimmydiggs admit he doesn't believe we are to attend to the things expected of us?
Why are you so ready to offend others when you do not know what their lives as servants look like?
Jesus Himself said our work as servants is not meritorious. How is that different from saying works will not save us? Why the black and white thinking? I don't understand.
Why are you so ready to offend others when you do not know what their lives as servants look like?
Jesus Himself said our work as servants is not meritorious. How is that different from saying works will not save us? Why the black and white thinking? I don't understand.
P
Perhaps we should take a moment to at least pray for this young man?
As far as I can tell, he is actually doing what his screen name declares.
Some of these doctrinal issues are very hard to understand or accept
even for those who have been taught precept upon precept.
I just would be sad for him to be lost in the shuffle of all this...
thanks for being patient with my interruption-
ellie
As far as I can tell, he is actually doing what his screen name declares.
Some of these doctrinal issues are very hard to understand or accept
even for those who have been taught precept upon precept.
I just would be sad for him to be lost in the shuffle of all this...
thanks for being patient with my interruption-
ellie
M
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Nobody disagrees with this.
Ask ANYONE HERE.
YOU are the one contionually bringing up works and or obedience!
I asked - how is it you know about CHRIST'S MANY SERVANTS?
Are you the greatest in the Kingdom?
Are you the only person here who has repented and submitted to Christ?
I don't think so.
That obedience is REQUIRED - Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins.
ASK ANYONE HERE IS THEY HAVE DONE THAT.
Have you "done it" better than they?
I don't think so.
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F
have I done that better? Are you seriously so argumentive you are going stoop to this level? Are you going act as if I have been saying I did these better?
If this is what you believe then again what are you arguing?
You show me passages that say yes you agree we must obey.
I said the same and you want that to mean I told YOU that you better be obeying as good as me?
Your very immature. I have seriously have lost the respect I had for you from reading some of your other posts.
If thats what you want to make me out to be, go for it.
If this is what you believe then again what are you arguing?
You show me passages that say yes you agree we must obey.
I said the same and you want that to mean I told YOU that you better be obeying as good as me?
Your very immature. I have seriously have lost the respect I had for you from reading some of your other posts.
If thats what you want to make me out to be, go for it.
M
Anyway, I think I have contributed to enough strife for a lifetime.
I have been blessed by some things here and found other things to be not beneficial.
I apologize for all my part in it.
Please forgive me for getting involved at all.
God Bless and keep you all in the faith we have been given,
Be blessed in all mercies and Gracious kindness in Christ Our LORD.
marianna.
I have been blessed by some things here and found other things to be not beneficial.
I apologize for all my part in it.
Please forgive me for getting involved at all.
God Bless and keep you all in the faith we have been given,
Be blessed in all mercies and Gracious kindness in Christ Our LORD.
marianna.
B
The Gospel by which we are saved TODAY -
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
The Ascended Lord Jesus Christ gave to Paul the Gospel of Grace -
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12)
That is exactly what Christ did -
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (Romans 5:8-11)
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
The Ascended Lord Jesus Christ gave to Paul the Gospel of Grace -
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12)
Originally Posted by Tommy4Christ
He didn’t become your righteousness, or take your wrath or punishment as many teach today
He didn’t become your righteousness, or take your wrath or punishment as many teach today
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (Romans 5:8-11)
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)