ARK OF COVENANT, HERE? OR IN HEAVEN?
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I'm sorry, but I'll have to completely disagree with you here. If there was no law for the angels, than why was Lucifer kicked out of heaven for wanting YAH's place? How was he able to become prideful? How could YAH justifiably boot him out if he had no knowledge of right and wrong? They new the Torah and the laws of YAH. He didn't just suddenly make them up when He created us and the earth
So yes, the law was before the earth, just as Yeshua was crucified at the foundation of the earth, Rev. 13:8. But didn't physically happen before us till 4000 yrs. later.
So yes, the law was before the earth, just as Yeshua was crucified at the foundation of the earth, Rev. 13:8. But didn't physically happen before us till 4000 yrs. later.
That's not what I said at all. I said they knew what the Torah was, they knew what the commandments were. As for all 613 laws, anyone who knows the Torah and has studied it also knows that about half of them were specifically for the levitical priesthood.
I return your own question to you? Are you saying that YAH had no rules for the angels to follow? Were they allowed to do whatever they wanted? Did lucifer know that what he was doing was wrong?
I return your own question to you? Are you saying that YAH had no rules for the angels to follow? Were they allowed to do whatever they wanted? Did lucifer know that what he was doing was wrong?
You are trying to put scripture into a framework that scripture doesn't fit into. God is love, God is spirit and truth. The ten commandments are just showing how love can be expressed. The 613 laws are ones showing God's care for people and how the symbols of Christ like the high priest and temple can be used for man's benefit. That is the way they are to be understood.
The laws are of God, part of Him. When we put on the armor of the Lord, we cannot exclude any law from that. When angels work for us, law cannot be excluded.
You are asking CC to study scripture for you. It is in all scripture. You simply need to use prayer and open your mind to the Lord, and read scripture for understanding of the Lord. Then you would also understand law, it is of God.
The laws are of God, part of Him. When we put on the armor of the Lord, we cannot exclude any law from that. When angels work for us, law cannot be excluded.
You are asking CC to study scripture for you. It is in all scripture. You simply need to use prayer and open your mind to the Lord, and read scripture for understanding of the Lord. Then you would also understand law, it is of God.
By looking at the other scriptures we can see where people who ought not have touched the ark were smote by God for doing such.
For example when the Phillistines captured the ark God made plagues of tumors and mice started breaking out on them. Or in another instance when Uzzah son of Abinadab touched it God smote him right then and there.
So it is quite simple, people can't do anything in regards to the Ark unless God wills it.
For example when the Phillistines captured the ark God made plagues of tumors and mice started breaking out on them. Or in another instance when Uzzah son of Abinadab touched it God smote him right then and there.
So it is quite simple, people can't do anything in regards to the Ark unless God wills it.
T
I understand this perfectly well, but you stated the Ark would kill someone today and I am not so sure that is true. The ARK was God's presence on earth at that time.
When Jesus finished his redemptive work and the veil was torn, the ark was not there,. This signifies the ark and what was inside of it is now not needed because Jesus was a better ministry and a better covenant. [See Hebrews 8]
You should keep your eyes on Jesus and not the ark and stating if found today it would kill someone is not accurate.
When Jesus finished his redemptive work and the veil was torn, the ark was not there,. This signifies the ark and what was inside of it is now not needed because Jesus was a better ministry and a better covenant. [See Hebrews 8]
You should keep your eyes on Jesus and not the ark and stating if found today it would kill someone is not accurate.
I have heard that it was buried in a secret chamber and the blood of Jesus when on the cross ran through a crack in the ground and dripped on the ark......LIKE I said HEARD somewhere.......and like someone said above...if it is to be found...it will be found on God's timetable and will be used to work HIS will in some form or fashion......!
Many claims for sure and much speculation at the end of the day.......!
Many claims for sure and much speculation at the end of the day.......!
I stand by my statement that if someone touched the Ark in today's time they would surely perish. For it is written the burden of the law is death.
You do well though to say Jesus has done away with the law of death, for only Jesus could bear the law of death and emerge victorious over it. Thus it is so that the only one whom may bear the ark in today's time is Jesus.
You do well though to say Jesus has done away with the law of death, for only Jesus could bear the law of death and emerge victorious over it. Thus it is so that the only one whom may bear the ark in today's time is Jesus.
T
Your off the mark again red Tent. This is not about what the Law is or about.
Someone made a statement the law was before the earth and Adam and Eve were created and for the angels, then transferred to us.
So I will ask you now to prove this and show me in scripture where it is said the LAW was used for angles and was instituted by God before he created the earth and Adam and Eve and then applied that law to the human race.
None of you have done it and not one of you WILL because a scripture does not exist that says this.
Someone made a statement the law was before the earth and Adam and Eve were created and for the angels, then transferred to us.
So I will ask you now to prove this and show me in scripture where it is said the LAW was used for angles and was instituted by God before he created the earth and Adam and Eve and then applied that law to the human race.
None of you have done it and not one of you WILL because a scripture does not exist that says this.
Hebrews 8
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9
1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9
1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
T
Show me the scripture where the 10 commandments were for angels and I will leave you alone.
Stop the circular logic here. You made a claim, not prove it with the Bible and share with us the verse that backs your claim.
What Book/Chapter/Verse tell us the 10 COmmandments were for the angles and Lucifer?
Stop the circular logic here. You made a claim, not prove it with the Bible and share with us the verse that backs your claim.
What Book/Chapter/Verse tell us the 10 COmmandments were for the angles and Lucifer?
I just did a search for "Torah" in the Complete Jewish Bible., and you are right! I used this translation because most of the others use the word law or commandments to translate the word Torah.
Not one scripture said that the Torah was at creation. Many said the Moses was given the law. There are 411 places in scripture that speaks of the Torah, I think if you would study all bible says about these commands you would agree that what you call law is part of God. Also that the angels listen to the Torah. Twice scripture tells of angels in relation to Torah.
Gal_3:19
So then, why the legal part of the Torah? It was added in order to create transgressions, until the coming of the seed about whom the promise had been made. Moreover, it was handed down through angels and a mediator.
Not one scripture said that the Torah was at creation. Many said the Moses was given the law. There are 411 places in scripture that speaks of the Torah, I think if you would study all bible says about these commands you would agree that what you call law is part of God. Also that the angels listen to the Torah. Twice scripture tells of angels in relation to Torah.
Gal_3:19
So then, why the legal part of the Torah? It was added in order to create transgressions, until the coming of the seed about whom the promise had been made. Moreover, it was handed down through angels and a mediator.