As We Observe The Seventh Day Sabbath As A Sign Between Him And Us Being Holy/Scripture
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
This declaration followed Jesus' reference to David entering the house of God and eating the consecrated bread, which was lawful only for the priests.
Therefore, the comparison of his disciples picking heads of grain on the sabbath and David giving consecrated bread to his men, each of which fails to keep the law, must be of significance. Can we equivocate the sabbath to rest? If so, then we can read Jesus' declaration as follows, "The Rest was made for man, not man for the Rest. Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Rest. If it equates to not working then it would read, "Not working was made for man, not man for not working.
But of course, these are oversimplified and fall short of what the Sabbath actually is. Even so, however consecrated the Sabbath day is, Jesus declared Himself Lord even of it. I mean, we've all been acquainted with at least one or two 'holier than thou' characters but Jesus is holier than the Sabbath day. He made it!
So what if we equated "for" for "to keep"? His declaration would read, "The Seventh Day Rest was made (the Greek suggests a 'revealed' meaning) "to keep" man, not man "to keep" the Seventh Day Rest." It "becomes," or is "made," more apparent, to me, that the Seventh Day Rest is not a what, but Who it actually is, the Lord of the Sabbath, one that is ever-present even more now than at the time of the commandment because He 'became' the rest from our works.
Did you notice that scripture does not say Jesus and His disciples ate the heads of grain? Jesus kept the law in every instance of the law and argued the lawfulness of work of healing on the sabbath.
The Israelites received the law after being brought out of Egypt (and. btw, subsequently longing to return to the bondage of Pharoah) after vowing, "whatever the LORD says, we will do." Although it is commonly considered to be, was the law actually a blessing to them? even as there is reference to the 'curse of the law"? It seems to me that they are affectively offered the same opportunity that Adam and Eve were given, and it isn't until the choice between believing in the Word of God that appeared to be as common as any other does anyone, none excluded, indeed find the only actual source of life when they believe.
(I've set to mind asking as many as I can what they'd think if they knew that God came down as a man and acted as if He were a nobody, but I hesitate to make a vow of it since my integrity is lackadaisical.
But still, I do hope I can ask at least a few this at some time or another.)
So, to qualify the comment, "When Christ said the Sabbath was made for man, He made it for all people," I would have to change "was made" to:
"When Christ said the Sabbath 'happened' for man, He 'happened' for all people."
This declaration followed Jesus' reference to David entering the house of God and eating the consecrated bread, which was lawful only for the priests.
Therefore, the comparison of his disciples picking heads of grain on the sabbath and David giving consecrated bread to his men, each of which fails to keep the law, must be of significance. Can we equivocate the sabbath to rest? If so, then we can read Jesus' declaration as follows, "The Rest was made for man, not man for the Rest. Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Rest. If it equates to not working then it would read, "Not working was made for man, not man for not working.
But of course, these are oversimplified and fall short of what the Sabbath actually is. Even so, however consecrated the Sabbath day is, Jesus declared Himself Lord even of it. I mean, we've all been acquainted with at least one or two 'holier than thou' characters but Jesus is holier than the Sabbath day. He made it!
So what if we equated "for" for "to keep"? His declaration would read, "The Seventh Day Rest was made (the Greek suggests a 'revealed' meaning) "to keep" man, not man "to keep" the Seventh Day Rest." It "becomes," or is "made," more apparent, to me, that the Seventh Day Rest is not a what, but Who it actually is, the Lord of the Sabbath, one that is ever-present even more now than at the time of the commandment because He 'became' the rest from our works.
Did you notice that scripture does not say Jesus and His disciples ate the heads of grain? Jesus kept the law in every instance of the law and argued the lawfulness of work of healing on the sabbath.
The Israelites received the law after being brought out of Egypt (and. btw, subsequently longing to return to the bondage of Pharoah) after vowing, "whatever the LORD says, we will do." Although it is commonly considered to be, was the law actually a blessing to them? even as there is reference to the 'curse of the law"? It seems to me that they are affectively offered the same opportunity that Adam and Eve were given, and it isn't until the choice between believing in the Word of God that appeared to be as common as any other does anyone, none excluded, indeed find the only actual source of life when they believe.
(I've set to mind asking as many as I can what they'd think if they knew that God came down as a man and acted as if He were a nobody, but I hesitate to make a vow of it since my integrity is lackadaisical.
But still, I do hope I can ask at least a few this at some time or another.)So, to qualify the comment, "When Christ said the Sabbath was made for man, He made it for all people," I would have to change "was made" to:
"When Christ said the Sabbath 'happened' for man, He 'happened' for all people."
-
1
- Show all
If you believe this, then why do you call those who observe the Seventh Day according to the Father Judaizers?
Pay attention to what you are saying. If your or anyone would, look up my posting on the subject, all I have ever mentioned is that our Heavenly Father established te Seventh Dayu, not any other., so if I prefer to hear Him, who is Jesus Yeshua, why should I listen toanother on the day I believe is above other days? Is this Judaizing?
Pay attention to what you are saying. If your or anyone would, look up my posting on the subject, all I have ever mentioned is that our Heavenly Father established te Seventh Dayu, not any other., so if I prefer to hear Him, who is Jesus Yeshua, why should I listen toanother on the day I believe is above other days? Is this Judaizing?
Maybe that’s because we’re correct!
The Conversion of Saul
Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Act 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
Act 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Saul’s eyes were indeed opened, but quoting that passage at me is not going to further the conversation.
Here is what he later wrote in reference to Christians trying to add law-abiding to faith in Christ:
“Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:3)
Here is what he later wrote in reference to Christians trying to add law-abiding to faith in Christ:
“Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:3)
-
1
- Show all
As being made anew are we to live ignoring the Commandments? Only if out new nature has taught that the Commandments describe what our new nature does by its conversion.
Thinking we should not continue in obeying God because we live under grace is definitely a perverse notion and it is a product of darkness.
Do not teach against the Commandments for Jesus Yeshua teaches that we should obey them. Again, anyone who has been made anew will act according to them by his new nature, so do live them for this honors our Father, not intellectuals who pervert the Word.
Thinking we should not continue in obeying God because we live under grace is definitely a perverse notion and it is a product of darkness.
Do not teach against the Commandments for Jesus Yeshua teaches that we should obey them. Again, anyone who has been made anew will act according to them by his new nature, so do live them for this honors our Father, not intellectuals who pervert the Word.
-
2
- Show all
Yeah. Conversation needs to end and not because you are right, but you are blinded to truth.
God's Judgment and the Law
Rom 2:12 Here's the reason: Whoever sins without having laws from God will still be condemned to destruction. And whoever has laws from God and sins will still be judged by them.
Rom 2:13 People who merely listen to laws from God don't have God's approval. Rather, people who do what those laws demand will have God's approval.
Rom 2:14 For example, whenever non-Jews who don't have laws from God do by nature the things that Moses' Teachings contain, they are a law to themselves even though they don't have any laws from God.
Rom 2:15 They show that some requirements found in Moses' Teachings are written in their hearts. Their consciences speak to them. Their thoughts accuse them on one occasion and defend them on another.
Rom 2:16 This happens as they face the day when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge people's secret thoughts. He will use the Good News that I am spreading to make that judgment.
Rom 2:17 You call yourself a Jew, rely on the laws in Moses' Teachings, brag about your God,
Rom 2:18 know what he wants, and distinguish right from wrong because you have been taught Moses' Teachings.
Rom 2:19 You are confident that you are a guide for the blind, a light to those in the dark,
Rom 2:20 an instructor of ignorant people, and a teacher of children because you have the full content of knowledge and truth in Moses' Teachings.
Rom 2:21 As you teach others, are you failing to teach yourself? As you preach against stealing, are you stealing?
Rom 2:22 As you tell others not to commit adultery, are you committing adultery? As you treat idols with disgust, are you robbing temples?
Rom 2:23 As you brag about the laws in Moses' Teachings, are you dishonoring God by ignoring Moses' Teachings?
Rom 2:24 As Scripture says, "God's name is cursed among the nations because of you."
Rom 2:25 For example, circumcision is valuable if you follow Moses' laws. If you don't follow those laws, your circumcision amounts to uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 So if a man does what Moses' Teachings demand, won't he be considered circumcised even if he is uncircumcised?
Rom 2:27 The uncircumcised man who carries out what Moses' Teachings say will condemn you for not following them. He will condemn you in spite of the fact that you are circumcised and have Moses' Teachings in writing.
Rom 2:28 A person is not a Jew because of his appearance, nor is circumcision a matter of how the body looks.
Rom 2:29 Rather, a person is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is something that happens in a person's heart. Circumcision is spiritual, not just a written rule. That person's praise will come from God, not from people.
God's Judgment and the Law
Rom 2:12 Here's the reason: Whoever sins without having laws from God will still be condemned to destruction. And whoever has laws from God and sins will still be judged by them.
Rom 2:13 People who merely listen to laws from God don't have God's approval. Rather, people who do what those laws demand will have God's approval.
Rom 2:14 For example, whenever non-Jews who don't have laws from God do by nature the things that Moses' Teachings contain, they are a law to themselves even though they don't have any laws from God.
Rom 2:15 They show that some requirements found in Moses' Teachings are written in their hearts. Their consciences speak to them. Their thoughts accuse them on one occasion and defend them on another.
Rom 2:16 This happens as they face the day when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge people's secret thoughts. He will use the Good News that I am spreading to make that judgment.
Rom 2:17 You call yourself a Jew, rely on the laws in Moses' Teachings, brag about your God,
Rom 2:18 know what he wants, and distinguish right from wrong because you have been taught Moses' Teachings.
Rom 2:19 You are confident that you are a guide for the blind, a light to those in the dark,
Rom 2:20 an instructor of ignorant people, and a teacher of children because you have the full content of knowledge and truth in Moses' Teachings.
Rom 2:21 As you teach others, are you failing to teach yourself? As you preach against stealing, are you stealing?
Rom 2:22 As you tell others not to commit adultery, are you committing adultery? As you treat idols with disgust, are you robbing temples?
Rom 2:23 As you brag about the laws in Moses' Teachings, are you dishonoring God by ignoring Moses' Teachings?
Rom 2:24 As Scripture says, "God's name is cursed among the nations because of you."
Rom 2:25 For example, circumcision is valuable if you follow Moses' laws. If you don't follow those laws, your circumcision amounts to uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 So if a man does what Moses' Teachings demand, won't he be considered circumcised even if he is uncircumcised?
Rom 2:27 The uncircumcised man who carries out what Moses' Teachings say will condemn you for not following them. He will condemn you in spite of the fact that you are circumcised and have Moses' Teachings in writing.
Rom 2:28 A person is not a Jew because of his appearance, nor is circumcision a matter of how the body looks.
Rom 2:29 Rather, a person is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is something that happens in a person's heart. Circumcision is spiritual, not just a written rule. That person's praise will come from God, not from people.
-
1
- Show all
7-12-23
James 3
Taming the Tongue
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal.
4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
Love, Walter And Debbie
James 3
Taming the Tongue
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal.
4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
Love, Walter And Debbie
-
1
- Show all
To you both: quoting lengthy passages of Scripture at me without providing any explanation as to your particular message to me is pointless. I can quote Scripture at length as well.
Unless you are under the new covenant in Christ’s blood (not the covenant initiated at Sinai), you cannot rightly call yourself a Christian. No amount of Scripture will change that. No amount of calling me ‘blind’ will change that.
Unless you are under the new covenant in Christ’s blood (not the covenant initiated at Sinai), you cannot rightly call yourself a Christian. No amount of Scripture will change that. No amount of calling me ‘blind’ will change that.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I cannot account for the confusion over following the law or parts of the law, given at Mt. Sinai. Paul is very very clear that if you begin in the Spirit through faith, that is the way you must continue on. See the book of Galatians for that clear message and understanding.
I begin to conclude that if a person insists on following special days and obeying this or that as though in bondage to it, that it may be that they never began in the Spirit in the first place and that is very serious and something to consider.
Worse, to inflict or try to inflict, these burdens on others because your own conscience demands you follow certain rituals and you are not perhaps really free in Christ, is to deny what you say you wish to do. You say you wish to honor Christ but you do no such thing when you present scripture for the purpose of converting already converted people who understand the sacrifice and purpose of Christ's obedience and wish to lead them back into captivity.
I have seen scripture used...I do mean used as in for personal gain...in many ways so quoting it, copy/pasting it, does not but illustrate the fact you seem to think that doing so will loose some superior power over others so as to create belief in what you are saying.
These endeavors are really no more than proselytizing and most often fail.
Why do people become wrapped up in OT law keeping or service to Jewish custom? The only conclusion I can come to, is that they simply cannot accept that Jesus has done all for them and does not need and certainly does not approve, of their additions to His finished work on the cross.
If no animal sacrifice could ever actually cleanse from sin and only the sacrifice of God's Son actually does effect that salvation, how on earth could any person think that worshipping God on one day above another, somehow sets that person in right standing with God while worshipping Him on another day or better, every day, is less and not acceptable to God who has set us free in Christ to worship Him every day or any day?
It boggles the mind and I think it must be a 'spiritual problem'.
I begin to conclude that if a person insists on following special days and obeying this or that as though in bondage to it, that it may be that they never began in the Spirit in the first place and that is very serious and something to consider.
Worse, to inflict or try to inflict, these burdens on others because your own conscience demands you follow certain rituals and you are not perhaps really free in Christ, is to deny what you say you wish to do. You say you wish to honor Christ but you do no such thing when you present scripture for the purpose of converting already converted people who understand the sacrifice and purpose of Christ's obedience and wish to lead them back into captivity.
I have seen scripture used...I do mean used as in for personal gain...in many ways so quoting it, copy/pasting it, does not but illustrate the fact you seem to think that doing so will loose some superior power over others so as to create belief in what you are saying.
These endeavors are really no more than proselytizing and most often fail.
Why do people become wrapped up in OT law keeping or service to Jewish custom? The only conclusion I can come to, is that they simply cannot accept that Jesus has done all for them and does not need and certainly does not approve, of their additions to His finished work on the cross.
If no animal sacrifice could ever actually cleanse from sin and only the sacrifice of God's Son actually does effect that salvation, how on earth could any person think that worshipping God on one day above another, somehow sets that person in right standing with God while worshipping Him on another day or better, every day, is less and not acceptable to God who has set us free in Christ to worship Him every day or any day?
It boggles the mind and I think it must be a 'spiritual problem'.
-
2
-
1
- Show all