ASSURANCE OF SALVATION

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Jan 8, 2009
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It was unwelcomed by you because it does not put you in a good light in relationship to grace and the cross of Christ. This is nothing new with you because you have been this way for quite some time and you are very proud of it. I just put it together and called it like it is. You like being an antagonist and dish it out quite often. I have never questioned your salvation or your relationship with God. I have never accused you of being a heretic or spreading heresy or being an evil man. You do accuse the brethren and I have challenged your beliefs on various doctrines including grace, salvation, the rapture etc. Your understanding about the cross, God's righteousness, His salvation and the grace of God is way out there and has nothing to do with the glorious gospel of Christ. It's your gospel but that is all it is, just like 'watchmen'. Both of you live your life before God and you will have to give an account of every idle word you speak at the judgment seat of Christ, as will I.

I have never questioned your salvation or your relationship with God.
You said:

He just can't picture himself falling upon the mercy and grace of God as a total unrighteous sinful failure. So he has never learned to trust in the character and nature of God's mercy and grace
You do seem to have a habit of doubting your opponents understanding of grace and mercy. I do understand it very well, having been a christian all my life. I just don't take it to the extreme that says you can do whatever you like and still be saved.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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do accuse the brethren and I have challenged your beliefs on various doctrines including grace, salvation, the rapture etc.
Frankly I don't consider people who distort God's grace to be a license to sin, brethren.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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I also choose not to click on links that bring me to jehovahs witness beliefs... I'll study the truth, thank you very much... not the imposter who would have the past be the present and vise versa.

hey i just said vise versa... pretty punny eh?
 
Jan 8, 2009
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Well the truth is that Romans chapter 7 contradicts 6 and 8 if it is interpreted the way you interpret it. And the link is far from being jehovah's witness. Paul's writings are difficult to understand, particularly if we don't understand the literary methods he used in writing it.
 
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shad

Guest
I never called grace believers whores , I called people who claim to be christian but live in sin, whores. Friendship with the world is to be an enemy of God. I post the links but if you're not willing to consider the other point of view then there's no point having this discussion.
Friendship with the world are those that are enemies of the cross of Christ, the grace of God and those that live by grace. Those that live by grace don't desire to live in sin but they know their need for grace and run to the mercy of God. Those that live in the righteousness of their own flesh have no need for grace. They initiate their own repentance instead of letting the goodness of God's grace lead them to repentance. Jesus Christ did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Until a person believes in their own total human depravity they will never understand their need and utter dependency on the grace and mercy of God. Salvation is 100% of God and 0% from man. The only thing that man contributed to salvation was to crucify the Lord on the cross. Our legacy is the nail prints in the feet and hands of our Lord. His legacy was to cover what we did with His own blood. That kind of atonement doesn't register with you and that is very troubling.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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Friendship with the world are those that are enemies of the cross of Christ, the grace of God and those that live by grace.
Yes and those who are friends with the world through worldly living, yes even christians.

Those that live by grace don't desire to live in sin but they know their need for grace and run to the mercy of God. Those that live in the righteousness of their own flesh have no need for grace. They initiate their own repentance instead of letting the goodness of God's grace lead them to repentance.
I hardly think it necessary to split hairs about how a person comes to repentance, of their own, or of God's leading, as long as they repent.


Jesus Christ did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Until a person believes in their own total human depravity they will never understand their need and utter dependency on the grace and mercy of God.
Are you using a term from TULIP because you yourself believe in it or what? Just trying to see what branch of OSAS you are coming from.

Salvation is 100% of God and 0% from man. The only thing that man contributed to salvation was to crucify the Lord on the cross.
It's not factually correct because man's part is to hear, believe and obey the gospel. It's a two-way street not one way. It can't be 0 %. It may sound spiritual for you to say that it is 100% of God and nothing from man but it's not correct... God has always engaged in humankind in a two-way relationship. Salvation includes both God's plan and actions and human responsibility. One without the other doesn't work just like a marriage doesn't work unless both parties commit to it.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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tulip??? goes to google. & snail, I'm sorry for coming across rude earlier.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Well the truth is that Romans chapter 7 contradicts 6 and 8 if it is interpreted the way you interpret it.
This is absolutely correct. If you interpret Romans 7 the way OSAS believers do then it does indeed contradict chapters 6 and 8, but when read and understood correctly it lines up perfectly with chapters 6 and 8.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Elaborate on the contradiction?
Romans chapters 6 and 8 plainly states sinning is not an option, but OSAS believers would have us believe that 7 teaches it is impossible to overcome sin. Therefore we need not worry about our sin because everyone will always continue to sin. In reality chapter 7 is teaching us that we in our own power cannot overcome sin therefore it is through God and walking in the Spirit via chapter 8 that we are enabled to. So what we should do is fully submit to God and allow him to deliver us from sin, not continue in it.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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Well I believe OSAS.. but what I believe is that the redeeming power of Christ frees us completely from condemnation of hell. This allows a person to sin less because they know the grace given them by the commitment of Christ to them no matter what.

A person doesn't flee from addiction by condemning themselves when they fail.. only by not condemning after .. knowing they are free from it.

A saved person doesn't flee from sin by being condemned when they fail.. only by knowing they are free from the eternal consequence of hell and the love Christ has for them to commit to them through it all.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(Rom 6:6-8) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1Pe 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

(Eph 1:13-14) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If salvation is a promise.. if I can know I have eternal life.. if I am sealed by the Holy Spirit..if I have passed from death unto life.. is that not assurance?
 
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