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The Sabbath is actually a perpetual Covenant of it's own...
Exo 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Isa 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—
Exo 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Isa 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—
OP
So do you think it was part of God’s perfect plan to have His Words downgraded by His own son?
Do you realize Sabbath and rest mean the same and are referring to cease from ones own works? And you are labeling those who observe the Sabbath as being legalizers by their own works? That is a clear 180-degree contradiction. You speak oxymoron stuff.
Hebrews 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
What did God do on the first Sabbath made for us? The Sabbath was made for man to cease from their own works and you are saying they are keeping the Sabbath and that is their own works. WOW! Evidently you feel justified by your works of denying the Sabbath and saying it’s wrong, and are justified by teaching others not to cease from their own works same as yourself.
Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I didn’t see you address these verses as I searched through your thread twice to see if I missed something. Maybe you can point out to me the post that you are referring to?
You said previously that Jesus was not referring to the Mosaic Law when I quoted
John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Are you saying now that Moses is not equated with the law?
Strong’s 3551 Law means “food for grazing” all the way through the NT, and there are exceptions such as “father in law, and daughter in law, mother in law, lawlessness etc.
Strong’s 460 in Romans 2:12 (KJV) means those who are lawless will die without the “food for grazing”.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For as many as have sinned without law (460) shall also perish without law (3551) and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22[/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7[/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
These three verses, that you said you addressed, all are Strong’s 3551 as inGalatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Knowing that a man is not justified by the *works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Self justifying *“works” (2041, an obligated effort by means of self justification) is what to focus on, not the ones who observe this food for grazing. To observe the law through faith is right. As long as I have been in CC, I have never seen anyone say that they are justified by the observance of the law and say that’s right to do minus faith. All the people that are observers of the Mosaic Law advocate a sincere faith.
So we see the original intent of our Father in Heaven was to give us food for grazing such as the spiritual meaning of the manna given the desert of Sinai. We should never say that this food is corrupt because of the completion of God’s purpose through Christ Jesus. It is another oxymoron that you would want people to be lawless. I’m sure that isn’t your intention, but that’s exactly what you are teaching.
So do you think it was part of God’s perfect plan to have His Words downgraded by His own son?
Do you realize Sabbath and rest mean the same and are referring to cease from ones own works? And you are labeling those who observe the Sabbath as being legalizers by their own works? That is a clear 180-degree contradiction. You speak oxymoron stuff.
Hebrews 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
What did God do on the first Sabbath made for us? The Sabbath was made for man to cease from their own works and you are saying they are keeping the Sabbath and that is their own works. WOW! Evidently you feel justified by your works of denying the Sabbath and saying it’s wrong, and are justified by teaching others not to cease from their own works same as yourself.
Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I didn’t see you address these verses as I searched through your thread twice to see if I missed something. Maybe you can point out to me the post that you are referring to?
You said previously that Jesus was not referring to the Mosaic Law when I quoted
John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Are you saying now that Moses is not equated with the law?
Strong’s 3551 Law means “food for grazing” all the way through the NT, and there are exceptions such as “father in law, and daughter in law, mother in law, lawlessness etc.
Strong’s 460 in Romans 2:12 (KJV) means those who are lawless will die without the “food for grazing”.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For as many as have sinned without law (460) shall also perish without law (3551) and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22[/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7[/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
These three verses, that you said you addressed, all are Strong’s 3551 as inGalatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Knowing that a man is not justified by the *works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Self justifying *“works” (2041, an obligated effort by means of self justification) is what to focus on, not the ones who observe this food for grazing. To observe the law through faith is right. As long as I have been in CC, I have never seen anyone say that they are justified by the observance of the law and say that’s right to do minus faith. All the people that are observers of the Mosaic Law advocate a sincere faith.
So we see the original intent of our Father in Heaven was to give us food for grazing such as the spiritual meaning of the manna given the desert of Sinai. We should never say that this food is corrupt because of the completion of God’s purpose through Christ Jesus. It is another oxymoron that you would want people to be lawless. I’m sure that isn’t your intention, but that’s exactly what you are teaching.
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You won't need to read a Jewish Bible to find that in the Kingdom the Sabbath will be kept, it is right there in the good ole KJV...
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
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I agree john832, except for the fact that "sabbath," in the context of the fourth commandment, does not mean Saterday. All it means is one day in a cycle of sevens. History proves that the day we now call Sunday was observed as the fourth commandment sabbath from the time of the apostles up to and through the nineteenth century. The "blue laws," once in our nations statute books prove this. The bottom line is, the Ten Commandments were not reduced to nine as a result of Jesus and the New Covenant. That they were is a teaching "crept in" in recent decades.
L
What I see on this thread is 4 points of view, 2 of which are in error.
Two members on this thread are preaching pure legalism, opposed by Christ, and by the Epistles.
One member is going too far the other way, and preaching license to sin.
The rest of us agree.
We may have a different perspective or focus, but looking at the same object.
We all understand that we are saved by faith alone, not of works.
We all respect the Law of Moses, and seek to please God by living out the Spirit of the Law.
We all know that once saved, our goal is to pursue the holiness of God, and the spreading of His Good News.
I pray to the Lord, and beg of you all that we learn to agree in the Lord on this issue.
Two members on this thread are preaching pure legalism, opposed by Christ, and by the Epistles.
One member is going too far the other way, and preaching license to sin.
The rest of us agree.
We may have a different perspective or focus, but looking at the same object.
We all understand that we are saved by faith alone, not of works.
We all respect the Law of Moses, and seek to please God by living out the Spirit of the Law.
We all know that once saved, our goal is to pursue the holiness of God, and the spreading of His Good News.
I pray to the Lord, and beg of you all that we learn to agree in the Lord on this issue.
Wrong. . .do you not know the NT any better than that?
"The ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs (OT High Priests) as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
If there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
But God found fault with the people and said. . .'I will make a new covenant. . .
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first (old) one (Sinaitic) obsolete.
And what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." (Heb 8:7-8, 13)
What part of "disappear" do you not understand?
"The ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs (OT High Priests) as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
If there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
But God found fault with the people and said. . .'I will make a new covenant. . .
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first (old) one (Sinaitic) obsolete.
And what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." (Heb 8:7-8, 13)
What part of "disappear" do you not understand?
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L
Truth is found in the Word of God. I am glad to see that so many in this forum trust the Word of God.
It hurts to see several wolves in among the sheep.
It also seems that you don't mind being called a legalist...
I didn't want to name names, but you just identified yourself.
It hurts to see several wolves in among the sheep.
It also seems that you don't mind being called a legalist...
I didn't want to name names, but you just identified yourself.
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Elin, where do you get the idea that the "Greeks" who intermarried with Jews were a mixture of the other "families of the earth" (Amos 3:2)? You are reading this into the text. The "Greeks" were Israelites, non-Jew Israelites of the dispersion. This is who the Pharisees were speaking of when they said, "will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles and teach the Gentiles" (John 7:35). The Gentiles in this context were the Greeks you speak of, the non-Jew Greek speaking Israelites of the dispersion. These were the "...other sheep I have which are not of this fold" (John 10:16). The Jews therefore, were not marrying out of their race, they were marrying after their kind, a command repeated throughtout scripture. The religious establishment does not want us to know this.
If you mean by legalist one who keeps the Commandments...
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Then by all means label me a legalist. I believe that I should keep the Commandments.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Then by all means label me a legalist. I believe that I should keep the Commandments.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I am wondering, because of your "belief" that Jesus "rose from the dead" on a Sunday, if you believe He was placed in the grave on Friday? Only can count 3 nights and 3 days if He was buried on a Wednesday, just before sundown and therefore He rose before the close of the Sabbath. He was discovered to have already risen on the first day when the women came to the grave. You have zero proof He was risen on the first day, only a speculation. What I have is assurance that He died on Nisan 14, which was a Wednesday. At sundown on that Wednesday would be the beginning of Nisan 15th. If you know the OT, Leviticus 23 explains all the Feast of God (no, they are not Jewish Feast, God said they are HIS and for all His children for ever.) Oh wait! I'm bad...you are not God's children of Israel. Never mind. The scriptures don't apply to you.
Perhaps this scripture applies to you, since you are a Gentile...
Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I am wondering, because of your "belief" that Jesus "rose from the dead" on a Sunday, if you believe He was placed in the grave on Friday? Only can count 3 nights and 3 days if He was buried on a Wednesday, just before sundown and therefore He rose before the close of the Sabbath. He was discovered to have already risen on the first day when the women came to the grave. You have zero proof He was risen on the first day, only a speculation. What I have is assurance that He died on Nisan 14, which was a Wednesday. At sundown on that Wednesday would be the beginning of Nisan 15th. If you know the OT, Leviticus 23 explains all the Feast of God (no, they are not Jewish Feast, God said they are HIS and for all His children for ever.) Oh wait! I'm bad...you are not God's children of Israel. Never mind. The scriptures don't apply to you.
Perhaps this scripture applies to you, since you are a Gentile...
Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.